Bulking Diet help...

[Seanp156]

Well, I started this diet about 4 weeks ago... So far, I haven't really gained a pound even though the first night I was 3lbs heavier than the night before just from the amount of food/water taken in... But when I weigh myself in the morning, I'm more or less stuck at 180. I'll check again tomorrow morning, but last saturday it was exactly 180 just like the week before.

My goals for now are to get in the 190-200 range by February (no set day, just sometime in Feb) Then, cut during the spring.

I did hit 180 back in May, then I lost about 10lbs during summer, then went back up to 180 sometime in September. I'm wondering if it's necessary for me to cut now just so my body can adapt and be more ready to use what I'm feeding it, but I'd prefer not to right now since I'd like to hit 190-200 by Feb.

Anyway, here's the diet... The first couple weeks took some getting used to, but it's fine now. This was taken from the "Bulking with Slow Burners" Thread.

Men's Bulk

This is the program is for a 180# guy with a fast metabolism going to 195 in 5 weeks!

Supps:

Multi with meal one
10 grams of creatine a day
5 grams of glutamine before training/ 10 grams after

Oil mix equals 1/2 flax and 1/2 safflower
Oatmeal is always old fashion (slow cooking)

Meal #1
2 whole eggs + 4 egg whites
6 - 8 oz. 93% lean beef or chicken
½ - 3/4 cup oatmeal before cooking
1 TBS Flax Oil (or oil mix)

Meal #2
Protein Drink: 2-3 Scoops Protein, 4-6 TBS whipping
cream, and 12-18-oz water
½ banana or 4 frozen strawberries

Meal #3
8 - 10 oz. chicken (before cooking)
6 - 8 oz. sweet potato or 1/2 ??? 1 cup cooked rice
2 cups vegetables (broccoli, etc.)

Meal #4
Protein Drink: 2-3 Scoops Protein Powder, 4-6 TBS whipping
cream, and 12-18-oz water
½ banana or 4 frozen strawberries)

Meal #5
8 - 10 oz. sirloin steak or lean meat
2 cups vegetables
6 oz potato
1 TBS Flax Oil (or oil mix)

Meal #6 (Non Training Days)
10 -oz chicken breast, 2 cups vegetables;
Or: 3 Scoops protein powder, 6 TBS whipping cream, 20-oz water

Meal #6 (Training Days)
1.5 cups cooked rice, 10 oz sweet potato,
1 banana, 1 cup vegetables, 1 TBS Butter or Peanut Butter

DRINK 6-8 QUARTS A DAY!

 

[The Monkey Man]

You can squeeze one more meal in...

Maybe just a packet of tuna...

I dont like that you are not taking any animal protein with meal#6 on training days...

I'm sure someone is going to tell me I'm wrong, but if youre not gaining................

 

[Seanp156]

If I'm already getting 4 sources(eggs, 2 chicken, 1 steak) of animal protein a day, I don't really think a 5th one is totally necessary on training days. If I did get another meal in it would have to really small, but I could proably handle a can of tuna..... Maybe I could just add that to one of the smaller meals?

 

[The Monkey Man]

Nope. why...

Spread it out more...

And You can always use more animal protein, whether you've had some already or not -

 

[Seanp156]

So... are you thinking for me to add tuna as a 7th meal to each day, or just training days?

 

[The Monkey Man]

So... are you thinking for me to add tuna as a 7th meal to each day, or just training days?

I am thinking add tuna as a snack like meal 3-4ish...

And add some chicken or something to the existing meal 6...
(which will become meal 7) on training days

 

[Seanp156]

If I "add" chicken to meal 7 on training days, could I take the sweet potato out? I don't think I could down a sweet potato, rice, vegetables, chicken, and a banana with PB....

 

[leg_press]

Seanp156, dude, if I were u I'd either have sweet potato or rice with meal 6, choose, or better yet alternate day to day/ week to week, to get some variety in your diet, and as for what monkey man said, have a tuna sandwich (w/mayo or without mayo) on wholemeal/ granary or sprouted grain bread, or just plain white if you have that @ home.

Peace

 

[Emma-Leigh]

Meal #1
2 whole eggs + 4 egg whites
6 - 8 oz. 93% lean beef or chicken
½ - 3/4 cup oatmeal before cooking
1 TBS Flax Oil (or oil mix)

Meal #2
Protein Drink: 2-3 Scoops Protein, 4-6 TBS whipping
cream, and 12-18-oz water
½ banana or 4 frozen strawberries

Meal #3
8 - 10 oz. chicken (before cooking)
6 - 8 oz. sweet potato or 1/2 ??? 1 cup cooked rice
2 cups vegetables (broccoli, etc.)

Meal #4
Protein Drink: 2-3 Scoops Protein Powder, 4-6 TBS whipping
cream, and 12-18-oz water
½ banana or 4 frozen strawberries)

Meal #5
8 - 10 oz. sirloin steak or lean meat
2 cups vegetables
6 oz potato
1 TBS Flax Oil (or oil mix)

Meal #6 (Non Training Days)
10 -oz chicken breast, 2 cups vegetables;
Or: 3 Scoops protein powder, 6 TBS whipping cream, 20-oz water

Meal #6 (Training Days)
1.5 cups cooked rice, 10 oz sweet potato,
1 banana, 1 cup vegetables, 1 TBS Butter or Peanut Butter

DRINK 6-8 QUARTS A DAY!

Honestly - You have this diet completely the wrong way around. You are eating a crap-load of protein which is far, far in advance of what you need and you are not eating nearly enough carbs and you want to increase fats as well (I would also re-think your fat source. Whipping cream is not going to be helping your arteries at all. Stick to olive oil, avocado, nuts, seeds and fatty fish)....

Simply jacking up the protein is not going to do you any good - the extra is going to be converted to glucose and in this process you are just going to waste a lot of calories (and money - look at all the damn chicken you are going to have to buy!)!

If you have a 'fast metabolism' you want to get your energy from sources that are going to help you build - so you want fats (the least thermogenic) and carbs to provide the majority of your calories.

I would scrap the whole thing and start again.

Set your protein intake at a reasonable level for each meal (anything over about 50g per meal is just stupid unless you are 300 pounds of pure muscle) and then make sure you have a good source of carbs and fats in each meal (fats not in PWO shake).

 

[CowPimp]

Enter that information into Fitday, or some similar calorie counter so you can see how many calories you are getting and the macro breakdown. Also, you don't want to gain 15 pounds in 5 weeks. That's crazy. Your body is limited in it's ability to induce hypertrophy. I seriously doubt more than a few pounds of that is going to be muscle.

 

[Tough Old Man]

Honestly - You have this diet completely the wrong way around. You are eating a crap-load of protein which is far, far in advance of what you need and you are not eating nearly enough carbs and you want to increase fats as well (I would also re-think your fat source. Whipping cream is not going to be helping your arteries at all. Stick to olive oil, avocado, nuts, seeds and fatty fish)....

Simply jacking up the protein is not going to do you any good - the extra is going to be converted to glucose and in this process you are just going to waste a lot of calories (and money - look at all the damn chicken you are going to have to buy!)!

If you have a 'fast metabolism' you want to get your energy from sources that are going to help you build - so you want fats (the least thermogenic) and carbs to provide the majority of your calories.

I would scrap the whole thing and start again.

Set your protein intake at a reasonable level for each meal (anything over about 50g per meal is just stupid unless you are 300 pounds of pure muscle) and then make sure you have a good source of carbs and fats in each meal (fats not in PWO shake).

Ms. Emma you have 2 dogs, 3 cats a Husband and 11 kids. How do you find the time to always post such great information.

 

[Emma-Leigh]

Ms. Emma you have 2 dogs, 3 cats a Husband and 11 kids. How do you find the time to always post such great information.

Well... With the kids working down the salt mines all day and slaving over a hot stove at night (damn critters have to earn their keep they do) I find they don't bug me too much...

 

[Seanp156]

Honestly - You have this diet completely the wrong way around. You are eating a crap-load of protein which is far, far in advance of what you need and you are not eating nearly enough carbs and you want to increase fats as well (I would also re-think your fat source. Whipping cream is not going to be helping your arteries at all. Stick to olive oil, avocado, nuts, seeds and fatty fish)....

Simply jacking up the protein is not going to do you any good - the extra is going to be converted to glucose and in this process you are just going to waste a lot of calories (and money - look at all the damn chicken you are going to have to buy!)!

If you have a 'fast metabolism' you want to get your energy from sources that are going to help you build - so you want fats (the least thermogenic) and carbs to provide the majority of your calories.

I would scrap the whole thing and start again.

Set your protein intake at a reasonable level for each meal (anything over about 50g per meal is just stupid unless you are 300 pounds of pure muscle) and then make sure you have a good source of carbs and fats in each meal (fats not in PWO shake).

Well damn...alright.... I was kind of thinking that there weren't nearly enough carbs here... (only oatmeal, fruit and rice mostly...)

As for the whipping cream, I don't use that... I use milk instead of with + whipping cream....

I'll take a look around here and see if there are any sample bulking diets... And yes.... The chicken + steak has been expensive...

Well, I just took a *quick* glance at Jodi's sticky and didn't really find any specific bulking meal plans... Should I just try and edit this diet by adding more carbs and taking some protein out or what? When it comes to knowledge of laying out a meal plan for specific goals, I honestly have little knowledge. I'm not really sure what protein sources to take out, how much, and where to add carbs, and what the sources of carbs should be.

Enter that information into Fitday, or some similar calorie counter so you can see how many calories you are getting and the macro breakdown.

I'll give that a try, but if I'm going to follow Emma's advice, I need to drop some protein and up the carbs.

 

[Seanp156]

Alright, well I filled in the info at Fitday for a macro breakdown, and yeah... my protein intake looks way too high... I think I need to cut it in half, and double the carbs.

Here's the info:
http://img280.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fitday1hr.jpg

That's for the non-training days, it only comes out to about 3000 cals, which is a lot lower than I thought...

When I originally bulked, I was taking in 3500-4000. Since I'm taking today off from the gym, I'm going to see if I can't work another diet out, though I might borrow parts from this one.

 

[Gordo]

damn that looked funny....that chart was ALL Protein (404 g) you'd have some WICKED gas, intestinal distress etc...

Yup the protein and carbs look like they need a swap.

....Only an eskimo would eat that much protein, but probably more fat than what you had laid out.

Good luck with the revamp More carbs = more eating enjoyment anyways

 

[KentDog]

Definately too much protein, you should be doing that many carbs instead. You're bulking, so you want more carbs than protein. The max amount of protein you need is 270g (1.5x180 [bodyweight]).

 

[Emma-Leigh]

When I originally bulked, I was taking in 3500-4000. Since I'm taking today off from the gym, I'm going to see if I can't work another diet out, though I might borrow parts from this one.

You could simply reverse the quantites you had and see if that works.

eg: instead of 8-10 oz of protein and 6 oz of carbs you could have 8-10 oz of carbs and 6 oz of protein.

Then just add in a healthy fat in each meal instead of your whipping cream (not PWO).

eg:
Meal #1
2 whole eggs + 4 egg whites
6 - 8 oz. oatmeal (1.5 cups)
0.75 cups 1% cottage cheese
1 TBS Flax Oil (or oil mix)

Meal #2
Protein Drink:
1 scoops Protein,
2 scoops (0.66 cups) oatmeal
2 tbs PB
1 cup skim milk
1 banana AND 4 frozen strawberries

Meal #3
6 oz. chicken (before cooking)
10 oz. sweet potato
2 cups vegetables (broccoli, etc.)
1 tbs olive oil

Meal #4
Protein Drink:
1 scoops Protein,
2 scoops (0.66 cups) oatmeal
1 cup skim milk
1 oz walnuts
1 banana AND 4 frozen strawberries

Meal #5
6 oz. sirloin steak or lean meat
2 cups vegetables
10 oz potato
1 TBS Flax Oil (or oil mix)

Meal #6 (Non Training Days)
6-oz chicken breast,
2 cups vegetables;
0.5 of an avocado (~100g)

Meal #6 (Training Days)
1.5 cups cooked rice,
6 oz meat of choice
1 cup vegetables,
1 Tbs Olive oil


I don't know - plug that into fitday and see what it turns out to be??

 

[Seanp156]

That looks like it could work, I'll plug that in FitDay and see what it looks like after I finish my english paper..

Some questions on the protein drink though, that's a LOT of stuff in a protein drink, I don't think 8 oz of skim milk would be enough so I could actually drink it, do you?

Also, for the oatmeal in the protein drink.... Is that just cooked like usual, or can you use raw oats?

 

[Emma-Leigh]

Some questions on the protein drink though, that's a LOT of stuff in a protein drink, I don't think 8 oz of skim milk would be enough so I could actually drink it, do you?

Simply add water to it as well...!! Or ice-cubes... If you add ice + frozen fruit to a smoothie it goes all froathy and yummy!

Also, for the oatmeal in the protein drink.... Is that just cooked like usual, or can you use raw oats?

Either or... Doesn't matter... You can eat rolled oats raw.

You could also just combine everything in a bowl and eat it instead of drinking it... It would work just as well... How ever you wanted to eat it would be fine.

 

[Seanp156]

Cool, thank ya ma'am.

 

[Robyne Arrow]

Before I could suggest anything I would need to ask several questions.

Have you ever checked out John Parrillo? He works with many athletes, mainly professional athletes but the information he provides is informative. In fact you may have read about him in the IronMan Magazine. He is also one of the experts on the www.getinshapechallenge.com website.

I am anxious to hear how the above eating plan goes for you. I agree with the above posters who state consuming more carbs (natural starchy) are what you are wanting to bulk or as others know it as "off season" stages of training. Are you workout routines supportive of the "off season" type of training as well?

 

[Seanp156]

I'm not really a "bodybuilder" as most people think of it... I just have personal goals I want to reach (both strength, and body wise)... Right now I'm training mostly for strength rather than just hypertrophy, but I'm sure I'll be able to gain plenty of mass on my routine with a proper diet.

Emma, that protein drink is TASTY

Ok, here's what the adjusted diet looks like on Fitday... Overall it looks a lot better, but I'm a little concerned the fat % is too high. Is that ok since it's mostly coming from oils? Should I not take as much oil and up the protein and carbs some?



Oops, I accidently left the cottage cheese out of the picture, so add 123 cals and 21g protein pretty much.

That's also leaving the avacado out... They don't seem to have that listed on Fitday.

 

[Gordo]

I'm not really a "bodybuilder" as most people think of it... I just have personal goals I want to reach (both strength, and body wise)... Right now I'm training mostly for strength rather than just hypertrophy, but I'm sure I'll be able to gain plenty of mass on my routine with a proper diet.

Emma, that protein drink is TASTY

Ok, here's what the adjusted diet looks like on Fitday... Overall it looks a lot better, but I'm a little concerned the fat % is too high. Is that ok since it's mostly coming from oils? Should I not take as much oil and up the protein and carbs some?



Oops, I accidently left the cottage cheese out of the picture, so add 123 cals and 21g protein pretty much.

That's also leaving the avacado out... They don't seem to have that listed on Fitday.

np just type in avocado (I made that mistake the first time as well) BTW avocado and chicken is an amazing combination of taste.




BTW the fat looks kinda high....why are you shying away from carbs when you are trying to do a Slow-burners bulk (the slow-burner refers to the carbs)

Up those carbs (drop the fat and protein) and get some gas in the tank

You plan to be hypercaloric and you'll be way into the green with a nitrogen balance.

Try this for PWO...premake the shake with the oats whey and fruit or whatever you are using....blend a couple of cubs in there and then throw the whole thing in the freezer for an hour....it'll crust over (use a spoon to break the crust and you can practically eat the shake like icecream (or at the very least it'll thicken like a milkshake). I guarantee you'll love it

 

[Emma-Leigh]

Emma, that protein drink is TASTY

Good! Did you use ice and make it froathy?

Overall it looks a lot better, but I'm a little concerned the fat % is too high. Is that ok since it's mostly coming from oils? Should I not take as much oil and up the protein and carbs some?

Ok -
First: You left in 4 Tbs PB (I cut it down to 2 tbs in the first shake) = -18g from total
Then replace the beef with a leaner cut (eg: 8 oz raw buffalo = 3g fat) = -14g from total
Then replace 1% milk with skim (=1g fat ) = -4g from total

TOTAL = 169 - 18 - 14 - 4 = 133g fat

Brings the cals down to ~ 3700...

So if you want to bump them back up again then just add in 35-40 ish g more carbs in somewhere...

That would bring your totals out at about
~ 3900-4000 cals
~ 135g fat (~30%)
~ 370-380g carb (~40%)
~ 310g protein (~30%)

Which is pretty good.....

 

[Seanp156]

Good! Did you use ice and make it froathy?

Nah, I didn't, but I liked it just fine without.

The 4 tlbs of PB is the total for both shakes, not just one... (2 tlbs for each)

*EDIT* - Oh wait... You put in walnuts instead of PB for the 2nd one, I thought it was in addition to.

I guess I can use skim milk if I'm putting all the other stuff in there for the shakes, I just hate skim milk by itself or on cereal.

 

[Seanp156]

Diet's going well right now for the most part... One thing though is I can't stand avocados (sp?) Could I just replace it with another fruit(apple or kiwi or something?), or a yam?

 

[Emma-Leigh]

Diet's going well right now for the most part... One thing though is I can't stand avocados (sp?) Could I just replace it with another fruit(apple or kiwi or something?), or a yam?

Well - although technically classed as a 'fruit' avocado should be considered as a fat.

28g = 1 tbs mashed
~ 45 cals with
2.5g carbs (2g fibre),
0.6g protein
4.2g fat (mostly mono-unsaturated)

And 100g = half a small avocado
~ 160 cals
8.5g carb (6g fibre)
2g protein
14.7g fat

So you want to replace it with another fat with roughly those macro's...

Something like some almonds (~1 oz) would be a nice match (165 cals, 15g fat, 6g protein, 5.5 carb and 3.5 fibre)... But some olive oil (~ 1 tbs), some pecans (about 16 halves), some linseeds (~3 tbs worth), wome walnuts (about 12 halves) etc would all be ok as substitutes.

 

[Seanp156]

I'll probably go w/ walnuts since I'm already getting them for shakes...