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Dead Lifts

Snarff

Snarff

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Hi,

One of my routine days looks like the following (3 x 8)

Pull-Ups (can currently only manage 3 x 5)
Lat Pull Downs
Cable Rows
Single Arm Lat Pull Downs
Deadlifts
(Considering adding bent-over rows instead of lat pull downs????)

Question is, should I continue to do the deadlifts last in my routine or is it preferable to do them as one of the first exercises? what are your preferences?
 
Why would you do them last? You do deadlifts first. Always.
 
doing deads wipe me so i leave them to last, i give them every last ounce of enery knowing they're my last exercise, any particular reason why you think they should always be first or is it just a preference thing?
 
Because it is best to perform compound lifts first. You are doing a bunch of isolation lifts first. Deadlifts are the best exercise you can do for your body. I do them first so I can perform them at 100%. I wouldn't do them last when I am weak and tired.



I rather be wiped out from deadlifts then to be wiped out by a bunch of isolation exercises.


If I were you. My workout would be...

Deadlifts
Pullups
Then some sort of row.

Why do you do pullups and lat pulls? Those are the same thing.
 
i dont feel weak and tired when it comes round to doing deads tho,

sorry meant to say palms facing chin-ups, cant do pull-ups. i've lost a lot of weight over the past 2 years but did it without much knowledge and lost a lot of muscle and strength, as I ony cared about getting the scale weight to come down, so working on building by muscles and core strength back again. chins and pull-ups are my weak points so i prefer to have more energy to do them earlier if that makes sense
 
I always do deads or squats first. What's the rest of your days look like? Can you move chins to another day?
 
Well do chinups then do deadlifts after. I just wouldn't do them last is all I'm saying.
 
Life lesson.... Always do the hardest most dreadful thing first. Physical, mental, social.. it does not matter. Prepare yourself for what drains you in a way that prepares you physically and mentally. THEN FUCKING OWN IT. Everything after that is easy and a joy.

: )

Or be a pussy and/or get none.
 
Hoglander said:
Life lesson.... Always do the hardest most dreadful thing first. Physical, mental, social.. it does not matter. Prepare yourself for what drains you in a way that prepares you physically and mentally. THEN FUCKING OWN IT. Everything after that is easy and a joy.
Click to expand...


:clapping: well thats me convinced, deads go first!
 
I also do deadlifts last, although I dont do as much total volume as you. Deadlifts do take alot out of you as you said, a valid reason to move them towards the end of the workout if you feel it affects other exercises if you do them first. Also, doing the other exercises can pre-exhaust your back before you hit deadlifts.

You can do either way. I would say do what feels best for you. As long as you continue to progress. Try them first in the workout (or even in the middle) to see if you find it better. But change back if you prefer them at the end (cos people here say do them first, doesnt mean its best for you).

Also, from the fact that you say you can only manage 3x5 pullups, Im guessing your relatively new to training (apologies if Im mistaken). So, if I were you, Id drop some of them exercises and concentrate on the core movements, attempting to get stronger on each. Something like:

chinups
Barbell Rows (or T-Bar Rows)
Deadlifts
 
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i've been lifting on/off for about 18 months, never took diet and training 100%, but thats all changing so i'm relatively new to setting up a proper routine. only started doing chins recently ( i dropped all direct bi work suck as bicep curls and hammer curls etc), i've been reading here for a while before registering so i have a general idea of the movements and splits needed (push-pull, upper lower)

i'm gonna drop the lat pull downs ( but keep the single arm lat pull downs) and introduce t-bar rows
 
Do deadlifts early in your session... first or second... I can't think of any reason why you'd want to do them last though...
 
Whats your back routine look like in detail? Exercise order, number of sets, reps etc. On how many of these sets do you go to failure or past failure (using forced reps, drop sets, etc)? And how often do you work your back?
 
did the deads second after the chins, grip was a lot better which usually goes first so will be able to up the weight a bit, so i'll keep em early, did upright rows and dropped the lat pull downs, alot tougher movement!
 
Snarff, if you find it works better for you, keep it this way.

The only point Id make is that you want to ensure you structure your workout correctly. Many people believe that the more you do the better. This isnt true - especially if you up your intensity (taking sets to and past failure), then you want to drop the volume.

Looking on past experience with myself, Id recommend doing only core exercises and concentrate on increasing weight on these exercises. Sticking to 2 or 3 exercises for back in a workout may be enough, possibly alternating exercises every workout and ensure you increase weight each time. Weight increases only need to be small (up to 5%), they will build up over time.
 
next ditch the upright rows... I used to do them all the time until somebody pointed out that they put considerable stress on your rotator cuff... ever notice how they feel like such an unnatural movement? yeah, there's a reason :P

I used to waste all kinds of time doing various raises and upright rows... what a waste of time...
 
how does this look

Chins 3 x to failure - today managed 6, 5, 5, should i do 5 x 5 of these for a while?
Deads 3 x 8, not quite failure on first 2 sets but it is on the 3rd (3 min rest interval)
Upright rows 3 x 8 not to failure
Cable Rows 3 x 8 to failure
would keeping single arm lat pull downs be too much here even if i could manage it?

also , what site would you anyone recommend for getting videos showing good technique and form on certain exercises such as the upright row, somehow don't think youtube cuts it!
 
what did you replace the rows with skib? i always believed they were a recomended movement? tried them today for the first time and they didnt feel right but thought it was because my form wasnt right
 
Snarff said:
how does this look

Chins 3 x to failure - today managed 6, 5, 5, should i do 5 x 5 of these for a while?
Deads 3 x 8, not quite failure on first 2 sets but it is on the 3rd (3 min rest interval)
Upright rows 3 x 8 not to failure
Cable Rows 3 x 8 to failure
would keeping single arm lat pull downs be too much here even if i could manage it?
Click to expand...

this all depends on what the rest of your program looks like... if you have one?

I like to do weighted chins and pull ups but if you don't have a belt or don't feel ready to do them weighted then what I would suggest to increase strength for this exercise is to pick a number (eg. 50) and do as many sets as it takes to reach this number. The stronger you get the less sets it'll take you to reach your total number.

Again, I wouldn't recommend upright rows for shoulders or traps. Stick to heavy deadlifts and vertical presses. Maybe try power cleans when you feel ready. You should work in some face pulls too.

Snarff said:
also , what site would you anyone recommend for getting videos showing good technique and form on certain exercises such as the upright row, somehow don't think youtube cuts it!
Click to expand...

youtube is great actually... just make sure you check more than one source. You can sort of tell which videos are legit and which ones aren't so much.
 
Snarff said:
what did you replace the rows with skib? i always believed they were a recomended movement? tried them today for the first time and they didnt feel right but thought it was because my form wasnt right
Click to expand...

Just to be clear I'm only talking about upright rows. Any other horizontal rowing is great.
 
And you need to post the rest of your training program. What does your split look like? Looking at a bigger picture will help others give you advice on how to shape each individual session.
 
day 1 ( sunday)
Deads etc

Day 2 (Wed)
Crunches 3 x 15
Bench Press 3 x 8
Incline Dumbell Press 3 x 8
Dips 3 x 8 (Soon gonna start weighted hopefully :)
Tricep Push Down 3 x 8

Day 3 (Friday)
Shoulder Press 3 x 8
Clean & Press 3 x 8
Squat 3 x 8
Leg Extensions 3 x 12 (i'm waiting on the abuse :paddle:)
Gonna maybe try farmer walks this friday but dont know if my gym has enough space, what sort of distance should i be covering without stopping, or an alternative??
 
Hmmm... I'll probably leave it up to somebody a little more knowledgable to help you out more specifically but I can tell you right now they may say something along the lines of:

- ditch the tricep push downs (dips are more than enough for this type of movement)

- there's probably no need to do shoulder presses AND clean & presses... i would think shoulder presses and cleans or just clean & presses would be enough

- I think most will discourage you from doing leg extensions... I was stubborn at first too but am no longer doing them

Right now your split looks like a body part split (day 1 back, day 2 chest and day 3 shoulders) with legs just kinda thrown in here and there...

I'll leave it to someone else to comment on the importance of balance and maybe suggest a better way to split up your program...
 
This is my new one that I'm going to try (Gaz, helped me set it up and I think it's something that I'll enjoy doing... Thanks Gaz!)

DAY 1 - Upper Push Horizontal/Upper Pull Vertical

Bench
Pullups
Incline DB Press
Face Pulls

DAY 2 - Lower Push Bilateral/Lower Pull Unilateral

Squats
Single Leg RDLs (haven't actually tried these yet so not sure what I'll think of them)
Goblets (love these)
Single Leg Hyperextensions (also am not really sure about these... regular hyperextensions are ok, but single leg? never tried that before)

DAY 3 - Upper Pull Horizontal/Upper Push Vertical

Bent Over Rows
Arnold Press
Dumbell Rows
Dips

DAY 4 - Lower Pull Bilateral/Lower Push Unilateral

Deadlifts
Lunges
Romanian Deadlifts
Step Ups
 
If your training 3 days, push/pull/legs is always a good workout. Or you could go for a 5x5 workout (do a search on Bill Starr or Frankie NY's 5x5 routine).

Concentrate on getting stronger on compound exercises and drop all isolation work. Someone who's bench press goes up from 100kg to 150kg is going to be much much bigger. You cant make these sort of improvements doing cable crossovers and all these additional exercises just adds volume which may slow down your recovery and slow your progress on the big lifts.
 
An example routine may be:

PUSH
DB Press
Incline DB Press
Barbell Shoulder Press
Dips

PULL
Chin Ups
Deadlift or/and Barbell Row
Bicep BB Curl

LEGS
Squat
Stiff Leg Deadlift
Calf Raises

The volume may look low, but if you put the intensity in it will be enough. Aim for increasing your weight on every lift each workout. As you get stronger on these lifts, you will get bigger.

Can I also add to ensure you take a week off every 3 months (or whenever your body needs it). If you train hard your body will start to feel it and your gains will start to slow. This is a key to take some time off and get ready to hit it hard again.

Any gains obviously depends on your diet being spot on.
 
Lobo2009 said:
An example routine may be:

PUSH
DB Press
Incline DB Press
Barbell Shoulder Press
Dips

PULL
Chin Ups
Deadlift or/and Barbell Row
Bicep BB Curl

LEGS
Squat
Stiff Leg Deadlift
Calf Raises

The volume may look low, but if you put the intensity in it will be enough. Aim for increasing your weight on every lift each workout. As you get stronger on these lifts, you will get bigger.

Can I also add to ensure you take a week off every 3 months (or whenever your body needs it). If you train hard your body will start to feel it and your gains will start to slow. This is a key to take some time off and get ready to hit it hard again.

Any gains obviously depends on your diet being spot on.
Click to expand...

I would definitely do deadlifts AND BB rows but that's just me... I don't really consider deadlifts a horizontal pulling movement and without BB rows that split has no horizontal pulls...

what was said about the volume seeming low is true... once you start to incorporate more heavy compound exercises you start to realize that you just don't have the juice for the smaller stuff you used to waste so much time on!

the other day I did squats, deadlifts and dips and had absolutely no energy left for anything else...
 
Skib said:
This is my new one that I'm going to try (Gaz, helped me set it up and I think it's something that I'll enjoy doing... Thanks Gaz!)

DAY 1 - Upper Push Horizontal/Upper Pull Vertical

Bench
Pullups
Incline DB Press
Face Pulls

DAY 2 - Lower Push Bilateral/Lower Pull Unilateral

Squats
Single Leg RDLs (haven't actually tried these yet so not sure what I'll think of them)
Goblets (love these)
Single Leg Hyperextensions (also am not really sure about these... regular hyperextensions are ok, but single leg? never tried that before)

DAY 3 - Upper Pull Horizontal/Upper Push Vertical

Bent Over Rows
Arnold Press
Dumbell Rows
Dips

DAY 4 - Lower Pull Bilateral/Lower Push Unilateral

Deadlifts
Lunges
Romanian Deadlifts
Step Ups
Click to expand...



to be perfectly honest i hate this...
looks like complete garbage...

but thats for a different thread i guess...




when i do my back workout i superset pullups and deadlifts
5 sets

5 sets of barbell shrugs

then i do some biceps and im done


and ive been givin many compliments on the size, shape, and definition in my back

in my opinion

pullups/chins
deadlifts
shrugs
are absolutely ALL you need for good back development
 
Lobo2009 said:
As you get stronger on these lifts, you will get bigger.


Any gains obviously depends on your diet being spot on.
Click to expand...

should have mentioned that i'm cutting for the next 10 weeks, aim to lose around 10-15 pounds as I way overdid during christmas, (well whole off december actually)

though does the fact that i'm cutting change the volume or exercises i should be down?

i prefer the 3 day split, but thought with 4 days rest per week (well 2 days of football (soccer), not training but play with friends for an hour) i could add more volume?

yeah my diet is spot on shooting for around 2000 cals, 200 - 230g protein, 90 grams fat, rest carbs roughly 100g or less with a moderate carb up on a friday as i'm not quite on a keto.

i'll have to google some of those exercises so i'll be back with a new and hopefully improved plan
 
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