Since 3 days ago.
Note: Im 1.5 weeks in to my cycle so i know it's not the test or deca
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Did i kill my estrogen too much?
- Thread starter shayan
- Start date
Since 3 days ago.
Note: Im 1.5 weeks in to my cycle so i know it's not the test or deca
This is not an isolated incident. Just googling lethargy and dbol will provide you with lots of threads of people feeling lethargic on orals in general and dbol specifically. Imo I would drop the dbol. I had been reading up on dbol as well when I started my cycle and saw that people were using it as a "pre-workout". I thought I would give it a try. Bad idea. I got terrible back pumps. Couldn't do a good portion of my workout after only using dbol a few times so I gave that shit up immediately. Then found that a lot of people experience the same thing and have had good results with taurine which could help if I decide to try dbol again. So, just give that shit up man. This being your first cycle 1) you want to have a good one and 2) there's plenty of time down the road to experiment with others. Trust me, if you have good stuff, your first cycle with only test is going to be all that you need. Did I mention dropping the dbol? Lol
I think you are suggesting i should drop the dbol. Hmm
Any ways yeah i've googled and saw countless threads on this problem but none have an answer to why this happens, also mostly those threads are old like 2002-2008 old and i thaught people know how to counter this today
You are right mate, thx for taking the time to replay appreiciate it.
Shayan, how you doing? Wanted to check in with you and see how you're doing? Believe it or not, I began having the same issue. Tired all the time, no motivation blah, blah, blah. I would lay down at night and fucking pass out. I started my cycle only taking test E at 500 mg/wk and proviron 50 mg/eod. Continued reading and found lots of people stating that I should be on an AI during cycle. Started week 3 with exemestane at 12.5 mg eod, which I thought was pretty mild, but it slowly started kicking my ass. Had labs drawn today. Didn't talk the AI this morning. Feel better already. Ill see what the labs have to say. Hope the dye is going better for you.
Peace
Peace
Mike Arnold
Registered
This thread is a great example of why a 1st time user should never use 3 steroid at once--because he won't have a fucking clue what is causing what.
More so, with an estro level right there in the middle of the normal range, why in the hell are you also using 20 mg of nolva daily? You know Nolva doesn't affect estrogen levels, right? It only prevents estrogen from binding to receptor sites, such as those found in breat tissue, so if your estrogen levels aren't elevated--which the aren't--then why use Nolva? The AI you are taking is solely repsonsible for your current estro reading...and obviously, it is doing a fine enouigh job. You're not going to get gyno with an estrogen reading in the 30's.
More so, with an estro level right there in the middle of the normal range, why in the hell are you also using 20 mg of nolva daily? You know Nolva doesn't affect estrogen levels, right? It only prevents estrogen from binding to receptor sites, such as those found in breat tissue, so if your estrogen levels aren't elevated--which the aren't--then why use Nolva? The AI you are taking is solely repsonsible for your current estro reading...and obviously, it is doing a fine enouigh job. You're not going to get gyno with an estrogen reading in the 30's.
Mike Arnold
Registered
I think you are suggesting i should drop the dbol. Hmm
Any ways yeah i've googled and saw countless threads on this problem but none have an answer to why this happens, also mostly those threads are old like 2002-2008 old and i thaught people know how to counter this today
First of all, you don't even know if that is the problem (there is a high likelihood it is, though), but if your main concern is simply getting rid of the problem, then just drop the damn D-bol and see if it helps. It doesn't make much sense to continue complaining about lethargy, but then refusing to stop using the drug that is most likely causing it.
We don't know why methyls can cause lethargy in some people. There has been a lot of speculation regarding this topic. Some people have mentioned liver stress as a possible cause, but there have been many instances in which liver readings were fine and the individual still experienced major lethargy...and other cases where liver readings were very high and the individual felt great, so there doesn't apear to be any direct connectioin between liver readings and this type of lethargy. However, that doesn't mran there isn't any connection between toxicity and lethargy...as there definitely seems to be. Confused? Keep reading.
Certain methyls are much more likely to cause this side effect than others---and if we look at which methyls cause it the most often, it is always the more toxic ones. For example, M1T was notorious for causing horrible lethragy ina very high percentage of users...and it is also one of the most toxic methyls available. Anadrol also causes it quite a bit, but not as ofte as M1T, and it is also more toxic than many other methyls. Dianabol is less toxic than either of those and appears to cause it significantly less frequently. Anavar is one of the least toxic methyls and barely ever causes estreme lethargy.
So, there is an undeniable connection between methyl toxicity and lethargy, but not necessarily a connection between liver readings and lethargy. This is odd, I know, but it is the way it is.
My best advice to you is simply to stay away from those methyls which seem to cause this side effect for you. You don't need to know the exact cause to avpid it...you just need to know which drugs have this effect on you.
Hey man haven't replayed in a while.
Well i droped the dbol and the lethargecy and sleepy-ness has gone a way.
Im fighting with puffy niples now and some gyno currently on 500mg test e/ 300 deca
Im using letro 2.5m /ed (started 5 days ago) also using cabergoline 0.5mg e3d
And im thinking of adding nolvadex? Should i? alot of people say it cancles the effects of letro as well as anastrozole but there are studies that suggest it doesnt huh?
Mike Arnold
Registered
A lot of people say nolva cancels the effects of AI's? Hmmm? Maybe ignorant people say that--and if you're encounteringa "lot" of these people, I would seriously consider speaking to others about this from now on. I have been around a while and have never seen a LOT of people say that. In fact, I don't know if I have ever seen anyone say that.
With that said, nolvadex does not "cancel" the effects of any AI. It is a completely different compound and does not interfere with an AI's function. AI's, such as letro or anastrozole, reduce the rate of aromatization, which in turn lowers systematic estrogen levels. SERM's, such as Nolva, prevent estrogen from attachking to receptor sites, but it does nothing to prevent aromatization, so systematic estrogen remains unaffected. Therefore, you will still experience all the side effects normally associated with elevated estrogen levels, aside from those which arise through estrogen receptor binding.
Look, things shouldn't be this difficult to figure out. On a cycle of 500 mg test and 300 deca, you shouldn't need more than 1 mg A-dex/EOD...or 25 mg Aromasin/day...or 1 mg letro/day. Any of these will be more than sufficient to keep estrogen levels in a normal range for just about everyone. Just begin using one of these AI's right from the start of your cycle, stick with it, and your estrogen levels will never get out of control to begin with. At just 3 weeks into your cycle you have already used multiple AI's, ran nolva at 40 mg/day, and are now consoidering adding it back in again.
What makes even less sense is that you just got your estrogen level tested and it was normal!!!! Guess what? You won't get gyno when estrogen levels are normal. So, even after learning your estrogen level was fine, you start pounding 2.5 mg of letro daily...and now, just a few days after that, you are asking if you should add Nolva to it! Why? Clearly, you know very little about the drugs you are using. You were ill-prepared to begin this cycle and now you are asking a bunch of questions you should already know the answers to. Not only do you lack a basic understanding of how to manage estrogen levels, neither do you know what these drugs do or how they interact with one another. If you don't know how to manage a drug's side effects, you are not ready for it.
Actually, your entire approach was misguided--including using 3 new steroids at once.
Your gyno is likely a figment of your imagination--paranoia. It happens all the time in novice users. They get one itch on their nipple and they think they've got gyno. The tip of their nipps sticks out a little more after being in the cold and they think they have gyno. Based on everything you said...and the fact that your estrogen level is normal, I doubt you even have gyno.
Hold on--back up a second and take a breather. You already have a normal estrogen level, so all you need from this point forward is a single, appropriately dosed AI. As long as you keep systematic estrogen levels under control, you won't need to use Nolva.
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raysd21
Banned Member
Thanks for getting upset Mike. People say I'm a dick when I respond to threads negatively. But it's just that people don't listen. But hey...some people just want to learn the hard way. Let's jump into a Test/deca/dbol cycle and learn the hard way bros....this will be fun. We'll get gyno, fight lethargy with dbol, then we'll crash our estrogen, then we'll wonder why we are tired as fuck, then we will ask IMF and lay the responsibility on them. Nice fuckin job.
Have a great day.
Have a great day.
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Mike Arnold
Registered
I hear ya'. I normally respond positively, but when people ask questions and then blatantly IGNORE the answers and continue to ask the same questions (which this guy did), it makes me wonder why they're actually even asking the question. For example, in his last post--the question he posted had already been answered/explained previously, yet there he is, asking the same question again. Now, I completely understand why someone might not want to put all their eggs in one basket and rely on just a single person's response, but to completely ignore it and ask the same question as if no one even attempted to help--it makes no sense.
I don't know this guy. If he ends up causing himself unnecessary problems, it is not going to affect my life, but I would still prefer he avoid them, which is why I responded in the first place.
Firstly i would say Thx for your replay.
But! I do have some little gyno my nipps are puffier than they have ever been (when in a hot place) and i have a small lump behind each nipple and around them as well.
I have an x-ray in 1 week and i will get to the bottom of it.
My theory is that i had pre existing pubertal gyno and that the dbol only flared it up and made it noticable now that's how i got it in 2 weeks.
