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Doc wants to try HRT in high doses...

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Weatherlite

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Ok, first let me say that I'm new to the whole idea of using gear. I've used PH's in the past and have been natural except for them. However, lately I've been feeling strange....had all the symptoms of male depression. Went in for a checkup and have very low levels of T, high E-T ratio etc etc...in other words a candidate for HRT.

The doc at first started talking about one regimen until he started asking about my activity level. (I've been unable to workout for quite some time due to an injury and then surgery so I've gotten quite "padded") Once he learned that I workout regularly and that I'm a natural endomorph he said he was going to revise the regimen. He said that this was due to the fact that at a normal dose I would use up enough T with my workouts that there wouldn't be the proper amount left for normal body functions...in other words it would be like I never had HRT in the first place. So, with a higher dose there will be enough left over to cover all aspects of my body's needs.

So, this is what he wants to prescribe-although he didn't give me dosage levels since I haven't given him the ok (I want to be sure I understand this all first). He recommended once a week injections of Testosterone Cypionate and Nandrolone Decanoate for 10 weeks. After that I take two weeks off with nothing. Then I go on a three week PCT consisting of Clomid and another product which I'll have to ask about again. It sounded like he said ALA but I thought that was alpha lipolitic acid.

He said that the test was the HRT but that since he knew I would end up gaining mass he wanted to add the nandrolone decanoate to help the connective tissues in the joints. At first I thought this was BS til I did research on the net and found out it's true.

As I understand it Cyp is a long lasting version so why once a week injections? What are the pros and cons of it?

How about the nandrolone? I realize it does have legit tissue support but it is also anabolic so perhaps he's just being extra nice by prescribing it?

Clomid-Looks like it raises test levels and inhibits the production of estrogen....am I right? If this is so then why not use Nolvadex during the two week off pre-PCT timeframe to stop all of that excess estrogen from binding first?

Sorry this is a bit long but I want to make sure I understand this all.

BTW, I know it's expensive and it's cheaper to buy gear elsewhere but my insurance covers 100% of this so I figured what the hell....especially since originally it was for my low T levels and not just to "get gear".

Thanks for any help or advice!

Mikie
 
He recommended once a week injections of Testosterone Cypionate and Nandrolone Decanoate for 10 weeks. After that I take two weeks off with nothing. Then I go on a three week PCT consisting of Clomid and another product which I'll have to ask about again. It sounded like he said ALA but I thought that was alpha lipolitic acid.
Click to expand...

Pretty strange for an HRT doc to prescribe deca :shrug: ALA = Alpha Lipoic Acid.

As I understand it Cyp is a long lasting version so why once a week injections? What are the pros and cons of it?
Click to expand...

Once a week is a little abnormal, typically HRT patients get bi-weekly or once every third week shots, 100-200mg per administration is typical, but it depends on several factors.

Clomid-Looks like it raises test levels and inhibits the production of estrogen....
Click to expand...

Clomid is suppsosed to help stimulate LH to produce testosterone naturally again, it does this by occupying the estrogen receptor site with a weaker estrogen, itself. It does not inhibit production, its a "blocker." Production inhibitors would be anti-aromatase drugs, not anti-estrogens, the term anti-estrogen is sometimes used interchangeably though.

If this is so then why not use Nolvadex during the two week off pre-PCT timeframe to stop all of that excess estrogen from binding first?
Click to expand...

No significant reason to do so since the drug tapers off, however you could certainly do so. I dont know how badly cholesterol levels might be during this time frame with nolvadex use though.
 
Originally posted by Weatherlite
He recommended once a week injections of Testosterone Cypionate and Nandrolone Decanoate for 10 weeks. After that I take two weeks off with nothing. Then I go on a three week PCT consisting of Clomid and another product which I'll have to ask about again.
Click to expand...
Sounds like your doc is recommending a gear cycle, not HRT. There is a lot of controversy concerning HRT, so opinions regarding it vary wildly. Very few HRT docs are going to recommend Deca, and also a three week pct. Since you 'workout', maybe he is sympathic to your efforts to gain mass. I say go for it. :thumb:
 
Yeah, deca is not exactly HRT, I am going to assume he is going to note that you have joint pains of some kind which unless you specified is kind of fuzzy ethically speaking.

Without knowing what kind of doses he is subscribing though you can't say a whole lot about it, although deca is certainly not HRT.
 
I looked into going the HRT route. It can be done, but the doses are not that high and its very expensive for what little you get. I can't afford to do it that way, but if your insurance covers it then go for it. Since I am only 24 I have just assumed my insurance isn't going to cover it.
 
I know an HIT freak who has one nut and scored a 180 on his test levels, his doc will NOT give him HRT nor will he refer him to an endo because he sees no purpose in doing so.

I believe he is 6'1" 205 after a couple M1T cycles.
 
I need to mind me a doc to scrib me like 2-4iu HGH a day for about a year. That way insurance will pay for it..lol
 
Well, lessee, I'm 31 and have T levels at ~235 with the "normal" range being from 220-1100 according to the test sheet. First doc (my "primary care manager") said no need since I'm in the normal range. So, I asked for a referral and this doc says OK.

I've read lots of posts where folks say it isn't worthwhile since HRT can't get you into the "anabolic" range for Testosterone levels. Well, exactly what is the "anabolic range" for test? If it's above 1100 then I suppose you're right. No legit HRT will go that high. However, if it's within that range then I should be able to reach it legitimately. Right?

Either way, I look at it like this...I'm 5' 10", weigh about 245 (Fat as hell right now due to injury and surgery) but when I'm at a normal fat level I weigh ~205. So, if I can attain that with a T level of 235 then ANYTHING higher than that would be better than continuing on with the measly amount my balls put out.

As for the deca-he said it wasn't HRT. However, he did specifically state that it was to support healthy joint function due to increases in strength that the joint couldn't keep up with. Maybe that's the legalese needed to justify it. Who knows?

Mikie
 
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My friend with one nut scores a 180 and his doc wouldn't send him to an endo. Most of the time when I see normal ranges its 280-850ish, but each clinic can use whatever they want.
 
I'm going to get blood work done before my cycle just to find out what my test levels are before. To find out how genetically gifted, or not gifted I am.
 
Even the genetically gifted can be heavily suppressed for long periods of time. Silverback316 was 22 when he finished his first cycle and was I believe 265@10% or so, looked plenty lean, 6 foot tall. He had low T for 11 months after his very first cycle.

On his second cycle he isn't far below 300 pound, again on a 6 foot frame.
 
I do once a week shots @ 150 mg of test cypionate. Doctor prescribed, It really is too low actually, I am sure he will bump it to 200 a week.
 
Actually in the HRT world 150mg of cypionate is quite a lot, where did it put you on the scale? Unless your aromatase activity is high you should have a very high test level now.
 
Originally posted by Weatherlite
Ok, first let me say that I'm new to the whole idea of using gear. I've used PH's in the past and have been natural except for them. However, lately I've been feeling strange....had all the symptoms of male depression. Went in for a checkup and have very low levels of T, high E-T ratio etc etc...in other words a candidate for HRT.

The doc at first started talking about one regimen until he started asking about my activity level. (I've been unable to workout for quite some time due to an injury and then surgery so I've gotten quite "padded") Once he learned that I workout regularly and that I'm a natural endomorph he said he was going to revise the regimen. He said that this was due to the fact that at a normal dose I would use up enough T with my workouts that there wouldn't be the proper amount left for normal body functions...in other words it would be like I never had HRT in the first place. So, with a higher dose there will be enough left over to cover all aspects of my body's needs.

So, this is what he wants to prescribe-although he didn't give me dosage levels since I haven't given him the ok (I want to be sure I understand this all first). He recommended once a week injections of Testosterone Cypionate and Nandrolone Decanoate for 10 weeks. After that I take two weeks off with nothing. Then I go on a three week PCT consisting of Clomid and another product which I'll have to ask about again. It sounded like he said ALA but I thought that was alpha lipolitic acid.

He said that the test was the HRT but that since he knew I would end up gaining mass he wanted to add the nandrolone decanoate to help the connective tissues in the joints. At first I thought this was BS til I did research on the net and found out it's true.

As I understand it Cyp is a long lasting version so why once a week injections? What are the pros and cons of it?

How about the nandrolone? I realize it does have legit tissue support but it is also anabolic so perhaps he's just being extra nice by prescribing it?

Clomid-Looks like it raises test levels and inhibits the production of estrogen....am I right? If this is so then why not use Nolvadex during the two week off pre-PCT timeframe to stop all of that excess estrogen from binding first?

Sorry this is a bit long but I want to make sure I understand this all.

BTW, I know it's expensive and it's cheaper to buy gear elsewhere but my insurance covers 100% of this so I figured what the hell....especially since originally it was for my low T levels and not just to "get gear".

Thanks for any help or advice!

Mikie
Click to expand...

this is all bullshit.
 
Mudge does that silverback guy have any pics on any of the boards? He must be freaking massive. There was pics of some guy on steroidology, and anabolex of some german guy bsaba or something close to that. He was very impressive. I wonder how old that guy is.
 
I think he is 23 now and yes he has pix on the board and yes he is pretty built, his neck looks like a leg. He is 6 foot and last I heard high 280s and he never gets really fat, his 265ish pic he had abs, intercostals, the works.
 
*Quote
Actually in the HRT world 150mg of cypionate is quite a lot, where did it put you on the scale? Unless your aromatase activity is high you should have a very high test level now. "

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I have not been checked yet for the 150. When using 100 mg though I was still in the low end of the scale.
 
I wonder what your estro looked like.
 
this is all bullshit.
Click to expand...

I agree. It's an exercise in fear-avoidance on the part of the O.P. who is too paranoid to spill the beans. Maybe he's worried about his computer being confiscated if he gets busted for juice, or something.

Guys-->this is a full-on GEAR CYCLE, complete with Clomid, ALA, etc. This is NOT an HRT CYCLE! There is no doctor! This is a MASS-BUILDING CYCLE, not a cutter (which he needs), and it will FURTHER SUPRESS HIS TEST!!

I laughed when I read it, because it looked like a board member wrote the "scrip."

You don't find it funny that:

1. Someone with legitimate HRT would wander onto this board AND
2. Know a WHOLE LOT about gear/cycles, feigning ignorance but being DEAD ON on the pharma. action of anti-estrogens, cypionate esterfication, etc.?
 
HRT docs wont likely prescribe clomid because you dont come off, so good calls.
 
i'm on hrt i have 3 200mg inplants in me and i also get proviron 1 x 25mg pd and this keeps me on the level. what you doc is going to give you is unreal i wish mine would give me access to that. i've been to 5 diferent doc's 3 give me what i need and the other 2 won't even concidder giving me hrt. i'm in australia and here my level was 9 and the scale goes from 10-33 for normal. i can't believe your doc is giving all that gear.
he's a lucky fella
 
Originally posted by Mudge
HRT docs wont likely prescribe clomid because you dont come off, so good calls.
Click to expand...

exactly.

nor would they put someone on HRT that quickly, many tests are required.

also, they're goal is to get your testosterone in the "normal range", not high.
 
IMO eventually using gear for HRT is going to be more excepted and doctors will prescribe more things related to what bodybuilders take. I think it may even become a cosmetic type thing where you go to your doc for roids to look good, not just for HRT. It may not happen for a while but I think eventually it will be no different then women going to the doc to have their lips pumped up and their breasts enlarged.
 
that would be true if they did not fear losing their licenses, steroids are a class III scheduled drug, they cannot just go around Rx'ing steroids without legit reason and many tests to back it up.
 
also, they're goal is to get your testosterone in the "normal range", not high.
Click to expand...

Of course, which is why I started laughing at the original post!

Test prop and deca are taking you into way superphisiological realms...not exactly something they teach you in med school!

Ever heard of a little thing called supression ?
 
There are some 'online' HRT clinics popping up, and some are crossing the line well past the grey area. On 'ology awhile back there was a debate between Swale, a well respected HRT doc, and a place called Palm Beach Clinic IIRC. The Palm Beach guy was prescribing 200mg/wk of test cyp and also cycling every 10 weeks or so, with pct. Swale was calling him a steroid dealer, and he said Swale was behind the times.

To show how ignorant some docs are though, I've been on HRT for 3 years. Just your basic 1 packet of Androgel a day. My doc told me "'it wasn't a bad idea to stop using it every few months for a couple of weeks to give your body a break". He also said it wasn't necessary to monitor estrogen levels because the body will properly regulate it. Here is the real kicker. I asked him if you used Androgel for several years, and you stopped, would your natural production resume. His exact words, "I have no idea". I will be getting a new doc eventually, but for now I'm doing my own HRT :).
 
Quote******I wonder what your estro looked like *******

I have to get tests done again in a few months and I will post them here. But all I know is My doc told me my wifes T levels were higher than mine.
 
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