Does prayer have any effect?

[bandaidwoman]

as for chistianity making you a good person, I see gluttony, high teen pregnancy, obesity, lack of self control etc. in this country. Perhaps because it is a religon based on faith and doctrine, not your actions. Thus, you can lose self control in your feeding, promiscuity, kill someone, abuse others but in the end all is forgiven if you accept christ as your savior.

In addition, the buddists and hindus have figured out that certain or absolute truth is not attainable and there can be both a single truth and multiple truths ( more quantum physics in their belief system) rather than a single truth. The latter is why there is so much in infighting among abrahamic religions but you don't see buddists waging war against their fellow humans because their belief system is different....

 

[exphys88]

as for chistianity making you a good person, I see gluttony, high teen pregnancy, obesity, lack of self control etc. in this country. Perhaps because it is a religon based on faith and doctrine, not your actions. Thus, you can lose self control in your feeding, promiscuity, kill someone, abuse others but in the end all is forgiven if you accept christ as your savior.

In addition, the buddists and hindus have figured out that certain or absolute truth is not attainable and there can be both a single truth and multiple truths ( more quantum physics in their belief system) rather than a single truth. The latter is why there is so much in infighting among abrahamic religions but you don't see buddists waging war against their fellow humans because their belief system is different....

Buddhism also emphasizes mindfulness through meditation and has been studied with positive results in the field of psychotherapy.

Although, I don't buy into all of buddhism teachings like Karma and reincarnation, I do see the benefit of practicing mindfulness.

 

[bandaidwoman]

Buddhism also emphasizes mindfulness through meditation and has been studied with positive results in the field of psychotherapy.

Although, I don't buy into all of buddhism teachings like Karma and reincarnation, I do see the benefit of practicing mindfulness.

agree, although quite a few sects of buddism don't necessarily embrace karma and reincarnation, some are almost athiestic ( taoism), some taoist sects ( which my mom belonged to before she converted to catholicism) saw reincarnation as just the natural cycle of energy, you die, body becomes food for maggots, which feeds higher animals etc.. my one beef with hinduism is the stratification of humans into levels of worth ( caste system).

 

[exphys88]

agree, although quite a few sects of buddism don't necessarily embrace karma and reincarnation, some are almost athiestic ( taoism), some taoist sects ( which my mom belonged to before she converted to catholicism) saw reincarnation as just the natural cycle of energy, you die, body becomes food for maggots, which feeds higher animals etc.. my one beef with hinduism is the stratification of humans into levels of worth ( caste system).

Thanks, I'm obviously not as informed on buddhism as you are. I didn't know that.

 

[bandaidwoman]

Thanks, I'm obviously not as informed on buddhism as you are. I didn't know that.

I grew up in Taiwan and Malaysia, Japan, there are literally over 500 sects of buddism. some would say thousands. so i grew up around it. when my dad, a western quaker asked my mom's monk how they reconcile so many belief systems and so many manifestations of God , he tells them that if there is a god, he is infinite and 500 ( or 333,000 in hinduism) is closer to infiinity than 1. In other words, god would be infininte and we constrain ourselves trying to define him with one set of icons, or beliefs or descriptions. The monk happened to be a mathmatician that taught at my chinese school.

 

[Thee_One]

i grew up in taiwan and malaysia, japan, there are literally over 500 sects of buddism. Some would say thousands. So i grew up around it. When my dad, a western quaker asked my mom's monk how they reconcile so many belief systems and so many manifestations of god , he tells them that if there is a god, he is infinite and 500 ( or 333,000 in hinduism) is closer to infiinity than 1. In other words, god would be infininte and we constrain ourselves trying to define him with one set of icons, or beliefs or descriptions. The monk happened to be a mathmatician that taught at my chinese school.

500/500 = 1

 

[Thee_One]

I think discussions like this are so childish.

Arguing about this with so little knowledge of the human brain.

You guys know we can convince ourselves of anything right?

We can even see whatever it is we want to see.

All your arguments are invalid.

 

[bandaidwoman]

I think religion is childish but since it affects mankind's behavior, discussions like this are not childish. Down here in the bible belt, I have to wrestle with schools not teaching evolution or quantum physics ( the latter denies a deterministic universe). I've had to uproot my child from her school to another private school couple of times because of this childish and foolish thinking that pervades the bible belt.

 

[bandaidwoman]

500/500 = 1

good one!

 

[Thee_One]

I think religion is childish but since it affects mankind's behavior, discussions like this are not childish. Down here in the bible belt, I have to wrestle with schools not teaching evolution or quantum physics ( the latter denies a deterministic universe). I've had to uproot my child from her school to another private school couple of times because of this childish and foolish thinking that pervades the bible belt.

Basically,

Your point is about censorship.

I do agree that we should not censor education or media.

 

[exphys88]

I think discussions like this are so childish.

Arguing about this with so little knowledge of the human brain.

You guys know we can convince ourselves of anything right?

We can even see whatever it is we want to see.

All your arguments are invalid.

So, you think scientific studies are pointless? Trying to answer questions about our world is pointless?
When you get cancer, tell the docs that you don't need treatment cause "we can convince our minds of anything."

 

[chosen1]

I dont think prayer works like a cosmic slot maching. you make your prayer and pull the handle and wait for god to handle "it"!

I do know that as a child and young adult i was always forced to pray for people that I had issue, disagreements with or bitterness. I was resistant to the idea for a very long time. The prayers never changed the relationship issues but did seem to help dissipate the hostility I had and allow me to move forward more quickly. More a fact of i dont want to burn your house down anymore - I just wish you were FAR away from me.>>>>

 

[exphys88]

I dont think prayer works like a cosmic slot maching. you make your prayer and pull the handle and wait for god to handle "it"!

I do know that as a child and young adult i was always forced to pray for people that I had issue, disagreements with or bitterness. I was resistant to the idea for a very long time. The prayers never changed the relationship issues but did seem to help dissipate the hostility I had and allow me to move forward more quickly. More a fact of i dont want to burn your house down anymore - I just wish you were FAR away from me.>>>>

That's a product of a mind-body relationship. Not god intervening.

 

[chosen1]

prayer does help. It doesnt however help the person being prayed for, it helps the people praying to feel as though they are doing something to help when they are in reality helpless. It is therapeutic for them.

exactly!

 

[bandaidwoman]

Then prayer is more of a form of meditation, that's fine, but unfortunately it's not as politically neutral as that... I've had patient's ask me to pray for a sick I.C. U patient, I used to be honest and state that I didn't pray,but I am going to do my best to help them.... then I would get all kinds of rhetoric about the demon spawn athiest doctor which they would bring up to the chief of medicine, unfortunately for them , I was chief of medicine. Now I just shut my mouth and give some noncomittal nod or shrug and leave. Which is why I am glad to get away from the small rural hospitals when I can and get back to the big city of Atlanta...

 

[bandaidwoman]

So, you think scientific studies are pointless? Trying to answer questions about our world is pointless?
When you get cancer, tell the docs that you don't need treatment cause "we can convince our minds of anything."

People think science and religion both are a quest for truth, unfortunately, religion believes in a truth with certainty ( there can only be one god, mohammed is the true prophet, moses recieved the torah from God etc.).

Science is never certain, we now know space time curvature makes more sense than newtonian gravitational forces , subatomic matter does not behave in the predictable way of classical physics, an asprin a day does not prevent first heart attacks in middle aged women like we thought etc. The latter changes and morphes but ulitmately marches it's way towards greater relative truth, it will never be "certain". This is seen as weakness by most fundamental religious folks, yet it's mankind's greatest strength. I do want to say I would not put buddism and hinduism in the dogmatic faiths since they are more versatile about relative truths..

 

[exphys88]

Then prayer is more of a form of meditation, that's fine, but unfortunately it's not as politically neutral as that... I've had patient's ask me to pray for a sick I.C. U patient, I used to be honest and state that I didn't pray,but I am going to do my best to help them.... then I would get all kinds of rhetoric about the demon spawn athiest doctor which they would bring up to the chief of medicine, unfortunately for them , I was chief of medicine. Now I just shut my mouth and give some noncomittal nod or shrug and leave. Which is why I am glad to get away from the small rural hospitals when I can and get back to the big city of Atlanta...

My wife and I deal w this too, we both worked at a seventh day Adventist hospital for the last 5 years. Shes an RN and I'm an exercise physiologist. She's a little more obliging than I am though. I wore my atheist atom pin on my lab coat. You can imagine what the administration thought of this. And in Adventist health, every single administrator is SDA. I was laid off last August, go figure.

 

[exphys88]

People think science and religion both are a quest for truth, unfortunately, religion believes in a truth with certainty ( there can only be one god, mohammed is the true prophet, moses recieved the torah from God etc.).

Science is never certain, we now know space time curvature makes more sense than newtonian gravitational forces , subatomic matter does not behave in the predictable way of classical physics, an asprin a day does not prevent first heart attacks in middle aged women like we thought etc. The latter changes and morphes but ulitmately marches it's way towards greater relative truth, it will never be "certain".

Well said, although that was above my intelligence level. Lol

 

[bandaidwoman]

I'm sorry, here in the south, you are defined as a christian or a non christian, and frankly it's getting tiring. It has gotten worse since 9-11. However, I think us athiests are looked on with more suspicion than the muslims, my neighbors are moderate muslims and even they can't comprehend my athiesm and are uneasy broaching many subjects. They take comfort in the fact that I don't think they are going to hell though.

I do want to market a "Left Behind" line of remedial science education materials, oh wait, it's already in place.....

 

[Robalo]

I pray many times for myself and i find peace and strenght in that. I've come a long way in my life and found that your god is inside of youself. You can call it God, Jeova, Zeus, Gaya, Alah, Odin, whatever you want to call Him. So, for me, yes praying has a good effect.

 

[MDR]

I grew up in Taiwan and Malaysia, Japan, there are literally over 500 sects of buddism. some would say thousands. so i grew up around it. when my dad, a western quaker asked my mom's monk how they reconcile so many belief systems and so many manifestations of God , he tells them that if there is a god, he is infinite and 500 ( or 333,000 in hinduism) is closer to infiinity than 1. In other words, god would be infininte and we constrain ourselves trying to define him with one set of icons, or beliefs or descriptions. The monk happened to be a mathmatician that taught at my chinese school.

I find it exciting as a therapist in training that Mindfulness and Neurophysiology is coming together as an effective, evidence-based treatment to give therapists another effective tool to help patients. I like Dan Siegel's book The Mindful Therapist, and his use of the biopsychosocial model to help individuals through healing practice during psychotherapy. Fascinating stuff.

 

[exphys88]

I find it exciting as a therapist in training that Mindfulness and Neurophysiology is coming together as an effective, evidence-based treatment to give therapists another effective tool to help patients. I like Dan Siegel's book The Mindful Therapist, and his use of the biopsychosocial model to help individuals through healing practice during psychotherapy. Fascinating stuff.

I just bought one of his books on mindfulness.

 

[exphys88]

I pray many times for myself and i find peace and strenght in that. I've come a long way in my life and found that your god is inside of youself. You can call it God, Jeova, Zeus, Gaya, Alah, Odin, whatever you want to call Him. So, for me, yes praying has a good effect.

I think you are misunderstanding my point in this thread. I'm attacking the notion that we can influence the outcomes of external things w our minds.

What your referring to is the placebo effect of believing that you are speaking to god and that he answers your prayers.

 

[Robalo]

I think you are misunderstanding my point in this thread. I'm attacking the notion that we can influence the outcomes of external things w our minds.

What your referring to is the placebo effect of believing that you are speaking to god and that he answers your prayers.

I believe i'm not explaining myself the right way. When i pray, i'm speaking to myself, to the inner me, the god inside, i find my answers in myself and that gives me strenght and peace.

As for influencing external things with prays there's a thing called free will and nothing can influence that.



It's difficult to explain myself in a foreign language but i'm trying

 

[exphys88]

I believe i'm not explaining myself the right way. When i pray, i'm speaking to myself, to the inner me, the god inside, i find my answers in myself and that gives me strenght and peace.

As for influencing external things with prays there's a thing called free will and nothing can influence that.



It's difficult to explain myself in a foreign language but i'm trying

No, I got it. There is plenty of science documenting the effect of the mind on the body and healing. But, the studies I posted address the absurd notion that we can heal others w our prayers.

 

[Arnold]

I pretty much agree with everything the OP has said here.

 

[exphys88]

I pretty much agree with everything the OP has said here.

Does this mean that I get to be a mod?

 

[jtb21]

I pray every night. Does it have any effect on me? It makes me feel better about the day, so yeah.

 

[exphys88]

Does anyone actually read these threads before posting?!!!

 

[Kwabby6]

^^ lol^^ I also agree with exphysiologist88. I also watched zeitgeist and never looked at religion the same again, especially when they showed how the story of Jesus represents the sun's movements. Im not "religious" but I do believe in a "power" that keeps the earth in a homeostatis (if that makes sense?) kinda like our bodies after a cycle. point is: externally prayers dont do shit, internally (mentally) they can mean everything. As for me, I stopped believing in God and the Devil when somebody pointed out to me that Good is God with an extra O and Evil is Devil with a D in front. (D)evil Go(O)d. Good and evil the story of life