does the new york times even read the new york time

[heckler7]

you think they even read their own paper, they are the ones that printed the story that the CIA was bugging trump, now they are saying trump has no evidence of CIA wiretaps

 

[SheriV]

so- they can't wire tap foreign governments they consider a threat?


just wondering

 

[heckler7]

my point is this,

new york times - CIA is wiretapping trump
Trump - CIA has been wiretapping me
new york times - Trumps has no evidence of wire taps claim
Trump - new york times what was your evidence? its your claim I'm quoting

 

[heckler7]

my statement is about new york times flip flopping on its own so called journalism

 

[hoyle21]

my point is this,

new york times - CIA is wiretapping trump
Trump - CIA has been wiretapping me
new york times - Trumps has no evidence of wire taps claim
Trump - new york times what was your evidence? its your claim I'm quoting

It's not a flip flop and both of those statements could be true at the same time. They also are quoting sources.


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[SheriV]

so wiretapping trump aides in the course of investigation with collusion of foreign government wouldn't be expected?


because- I realize its splitting hairs but Trump is adamant that he and his campaign were wire tapped- I'm not sure that's true in so much as things on the edges were being investigated when they came to light.

tbh my favorite quote I've seen so far was "saying the CIA is wiretapping citizens is like saying that water is wet"

well no shit- I doubt there is any chance in hell they aren't all over anyone that even brushes against politics- the difference is- historically the CIA doesn't quite answer to anyone- they will gleefully take down anyone they feel is a threat so I would speculate a well versed attorney ..who also happened to be married to a well versed attorney ...wouldn't be sullying their hands and getting dirty if for no other reason than to avoid the inevitable fall out from it...
but what the CIA does in the course of their own investigation- weeeeelll ...that's probably different.
what Im saying is- I have no doubt there was wiretapping involved when they smelled a rat (or less) but I don't think a seated president that's sane (and as cunning and manipulative as the far right would have you believe) would ever risk getting their hands dirty and even quietly ordering it.



as far as the whole Trump/Russia shit goes I don't think there is a fucking chance in hell that there is so much smoke and no fire present

 

[hoyle21]

so wiretapping trump aides in the course of investigation with collusion of foreign government wouldn't be expected?


because- I realize its splitting hairs but Trump is adamant that he and his campaign were wire tapped- I'm not sure that's true in so much as things on the edges were being investigated when they came to light.

tbh my favorite quote I've seen so far was "saying the CIA is wiretapping citizens is like saying that water is wet"

well no shit- I doubt there is any chance in hell they aren't all over anyone that even brushes against politics- the difference is- historically the CIA doesn't quite answer to anyone- they will gleefully take down anyone they feel is a threat so I would speculate a well versed attorney ..who also happened to be married to a well versed attorney ...wouldn't be sullying their hands and getting dirty if for no other reason than to avoid the inevitable fall out from it...
but what the CIA does in the course of their own investigation- weeeeelll ...that's probably different.
what Im saying is- I have no doubt there was wiretapping involved when they smelled a rat (or less) but I don't think a seated president that's sane (and as cunning and manipulative as the far right would have you believe) would ever risk getting their hands dirty and even quietly ordering it.



as far as the whole Trump/Russia shit goes I don't think there is a fucking chance in hell that there is so much smoke and no fire present

They would have gone through a FISA court which means they had enough probable cause to get a secret warrant. Trumps own tweet about this is so damaging. I'm sure that's why his administration is back petaling like crazy.



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[SheriV]

thats what this admin does isn't it?
back pedal and attempt to obfuscate?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...e-wont-use-us-steel-despite-trump-pledge.html

http://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/201...publican-health-care-plan-premiums-cost-price


I mean as far as the insurance goes- at least no one will be required to have it anymore- which should be good for premiums too when the young and healthy, the most likely to avoid purchasing healthcare decide not to buy it.

 

[hoyle21]

thats what this admin does isn't it?
back pedal and attempt to obfuscate?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...e-wont-use-us-steel-despite-trump-pledge.html

http://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/201...publican-health-care-plan-premiums-cost-price


I mean as far as the insurance goes- at least no one will be required to have it anymore- which should be good for premiums too when the young and healthy, the most likely to avoid purchasing healthcare decide not to buy it.

"AARP also highlights a provision in the American Health Care Act allowing insurance companies to charge patients in their 50s and early 60s up to five times more than younger policy holders. Under current rules put in place by ObamaCare, those fees are capped at a three-to-one ratio.

"Before people even reach retirement age, big insurance companies could be allowed to charge them an age tax that adds up to thousands of dollars more per year," LeaMond said."
https://www.google.com/amp/thehill....-rips-gops-harmful-healthcare-legislation?amp


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[SheriV]

yup- I pointed that fun little fact out yesterday-

when the bigger picture is looked at for all this wonderful change it looks incredibly bad for the average american schlepping for 50k a yr but for whatever reason people just ignore it.
I just wonder when people will get it through their heads that major corporations getting breaks with the environment or taxes or healthcare requirements is going to ACTUALLY help displaced workers

I was reading a report but now I don't know where it is that the prediction for most of the manufacturing places that get big tax breaks will run with any net savings to automate as fully as possible ...its a windfall for more profitability for a large company

and a I wont just be quiet and accept it....I'll continue to put pins in my 45 voodoo doll and hope hes tried for treason...or at the very least scream loud and long enough until there's a coup in congress. I wont accept bad policy for myself or my children- the people that will inherit bad policy

 

[SheriV]

three of my favorite quotes which apply in some of the current state of affairs- and yes, these are cut and paste because I'm not typing all this up..lol
I have circuit boards to draw up in CAD :/

?So we must lay it down that the association which is a state exists not for the purpose of living together but for the sake of noble actions. Those who contribute most to this kind of association are for that very reason entitled to a larger share in the state than those who, though they may be equal or even superior in free birth and in family, are inferior in the virtue that belongs to a citizen. Similarly they are entitled to a larger share than those who are superior in riches but inferior in virtue.?


?But since there is but one aim for the entire state, it follows that education must be one and the same for all, and that the responsibility for it must be a public one, not the private affair which it now is, each man looking after his own children and teaching them privately whatever private curriculum he thinks they ought to study.?

?Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!?


[h=1]?It is not always the same thing to be a good man and a good citizen.?[/h]?I am not an Athenian or a Greek, but a citizen of the world."

 

[solidassears]

Oh course you don't think there is a fucking chance in hell that there is so much smoke and no fire present. You're a useful idiot for the Dems; they have absolutely 0 evidence of this; yet this narrative is all you hear. Why? Because the Libs have nothing else, they are sore loses and can't come to grips with the fact that they lost.

IMO Obama is a traitor and should be treated as such as he is behind all this total BS.

All this shit is nothing more than subversion to try and destroy the United States normal government process. And replace the rule of law with leftist elitists who think they are entitled to run our lives so they can live high on the hog.

so wiretapping trump aides in the course of investigation with collusion of foreign government wouldn't be expected?


because- I realize its splitting hairs but Trump is adamant that he and his campaign were wire tapped- I'm not sure that's true in so much as things on the edges were being investigated when they came to light.

tbh my favorite quote I've seen so far was "saying the CIA is wiretapping citizens is like saying that water is wet"

well no shit- I doubt there is any chance in hell they aren't all over anyone that even brushes against politics- the difference is- historically the CIA doesn't quite answer to anyone- they will gleefully take down anyone they feel is a threat so I would speculate a well versed attorney ..who also happened to be married to a well versed attorney ...wouldn't be sullying their hands and getting dirty if for no other reason than to avoid the inevitable fall out from it...
but what the CIA does in the course of their own investigation- weeeeelll ...that's probably different.
what Im saying is- I have no doubt there was wiretapping involved when they smelled a rat (or less) but I don't think a seated president that's sane (and as cunning and manipulative as the far right would have you believe) would ever risk getting their hands dirty and even quietly ordering it.



as far as the whole Trump/Russia shit goes I don't think there is a fucking chance in hell that there is so much smoke and no fire present

 

[hoyle21]

lol. And here comes the cowardly dodger.


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[SheriV]

Oh course you don't think there is a fucking chance in hell that there is so much smoke and no fire present. You're a useful idiot for the Dems; they have absolutely 0 evidence of this; yet this narrative is all you hear. Why? Because the Libs have nothing else, they are sore loses and can't come to grips with the fact that they lost.

IMO Obama is a traitor and should be treated as such as he is behind all this total BS.

All this shit is nothing more than subversion to try and destroy the United States normal government process. And replace the rule of law with leftist elitists who think they are entitled to run our lives so they can live high on the hog.

.
man- you're so emo
lol

 

[solidassears]

Yes I am; I'm sick and tired of all the shit storm Obama, his socialist fools and the media are manufacturing to try and subvert our system of goverment and destroy our duly elected President. Damn rights I pissed. And more so at the useful idiots who buy into all the bullshit the Dems and Obama hangers are spreading.

Show me one, just one shred of evidence of Trump Campaign colluding with the Russians to effect the election; even a theory how they did it and what the effect was.. It can't be done because it is all a total smoke screen and you think where there's smoke there's fire. Yeah there is fire, but the fire is Obama and his minions trying to subvert a valid election they don't like.

.
man- you're so emo
lol

 

[hoyle21]

It's not like every single member of Trumps team has deep ties to Russia. It's not like he had a cabinet member resign over lying about it. It's not like his AGrecently lied about his ties to Russia. It's not like Trump pushed to weaken our position in the Ukraine.

Fuck the libtards for making this shit up.


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[solidassears]

Another useful idiot strikes with his CNN bullshit

It's not like every single member of Trumps team has deep ties to Russia. It's not like he had a cabinet member resign over lying about it. It's not like his AGrecently lied about his ties to Russia. It's not like Trump pushed to weaken our position in the Ukraine.

Fuck the libtards for making this shit up.


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[SheriV]

we' ll see.....the first public hearing on the matter and all of the trump ties in march....20th I believe

and its a partisan panel


Lindsey Graham looks pretty pissed off- what party was he again?
what did Mitch McConnell say about the whole thing again? hes a liberal right??

lolol


I think its cute that all the little worshipers need to constantly validate their king..from what? criticism? you can't breathe in politics without criticism no matter what party you're on.


put on your big girl panties and go find some place to go shove religion down someones throat to avoid the next war....

 

[SheriV]

Another useful idiot strikes with his CNN bullshit

..

try again cupcake

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...and-wringing-really-about-foreign-policy.html

 

[hoyle21]

..

try again cupcake

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...and-wringing-really-about-foreign-policy.html

Which is really the problem. This is the type of moron that thinks Rush Limbaugh, who failed out of his CC is a genius while Bill Maher who double majored at Cornell is an idiot. He's never going to let facts interfere with his preconceived notions. He doesn't have the ability to critically thing and quite frankly the world has passed him by. It's sad and pathetic and painful to see really.


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[hoyle21]

Wait until they find out how much their premiums are expected to rise with the new health care plan too. lol.


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[heckler7]

where are you guys getting your info? you all talk they are facts that already happened. everyone seems to forget how much of a disater obamacare is and was in the intro, they website didnt work for months and people were without healthcare completely, cost skyrocketted. and keep this in my it is now a law, a requirement to have it punishable with fines and still only cut uninsured from like 12% to 7%. get that is a law its a requirement and didnt even cut uninsured by 50%. just saying. its wasnt set up to be successful, obamacare was meant to fail so that the states would flop and the government would take it over. it needs to be fixed. I dont care if you like trump or not obamacare needs to be fixed

 

[charley]

where are you guys getting your info? you all talk they are facts that already happened. everyone seems to forget how much of a disater obamacare is and was in the intro, they website didnt work for months and people were without healthcare completely, cost skyrocketted. and keep this in my it is now a law, a requirement to have it punishable with fines and still only cut uninsured from like 12% to 7%. get that is a law its a requirement and didnt even cut uninsured by 50%. just saying. its wasnt set up to be successful, obamacare was meant to fail so that the states would flop and the government would take it over. it needs to be fixed. I dont care if you like trump or not obamacare needs to be fixed

.. I don't use 'Obamafuckingcare'... in all honesty , I don't like trump, I find him to be a liar, bully, bigmouth, a person that can't except his own guilt , never say's 'he's sorry'... I am concerned about the many people that will get fucked by the new 'trump care'...

 

[SheriV]

I technically didn't use obamacare but I did use our states exchange to buy myself primary insurance- it also happened to be insurance anyone could purchase for themselves prior to obamacare. I paid 320 a month for just myself for full coverage/ppo plan without dental or vision.normal copay plan.
I got it to cover surgery I knew I was going to need and carried it for a year because it felt dishonest to sign up..use it then drop it. I know most people arent like that. I covered 12k in surgery and around 9k in other expenses for the year so they still got shafted.
having two insurance plans was a real pain in the ass with providers tho- most didn't know how to bill it and I spent almost a whole nother year chasing billing.

I was pretty upset when my husbands employer moved to offer high deductible plans as their primary focus-enough employees complained and now there are two high deductible plans and two "normal" plans..one hmo, one ppo.

we have a ppo again through his work.

obamacare was absolutely awful but if you see what happened to the bill and who voted on what- you'd see who the culprits were in exactly how awful it was.


I agree with rand on one talking point he mentioned on a fox interview actually- there needs to be industry reforms. the insurance companies just lined their bank accounts with the blood of citizens

 

[hoyle21]

I technically didn't use obamacare but I did use our states exchange to buy myself primary insurance- it also happened to be insurance anyone could purchase for themselves prior to obamacare. I paid 320 a month for just myself for full coverage/ppo plan without dental or vision.normal copay plan.
I got it to cover surgery I knew I was going to need and carried it for a year because it felt dishonest to sign up..use it then drop it. I know most people arent like that. I covered 12k in surgery and around 9k in other expenses for the year so they still got shafted.
having two insurance plans was a real pain in the ass with providers tho- most didn't know how to bill it and I spent almost a whole nother year chasing billing.

I was pretty upset when my husbands employer moved to offer high deductible plans as their primary focus-enough employees complained and now there are two high deductible plans and two "normal" plans..one hmo, one ppo.

we have a ppo again through his work.

obamacare was absolutely awful but if you see what happened to the bill and who voted on what- you'd see who the culprits were in exactly how awful it was.


I agree with rand on one talking point he mentioned on a fox interview actually- there needs to be industry reforms. the insurance companies just lined their bank accounts with the blood of citizens

Looks like the new plan is great and only costs $8,400 per year more.

http://www.npr.org/2017/03/08/51928...hare&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social


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[SheriV]

I know- this new "plan" is somehow worse- it guts the poor and the over 60 crowd- the two most vulnerable populations and it makes sure the working class - if they opt in pays for everyone else that remains....idk though- it may fuck the over 60 crowd worse. How do they justify changing the cap from 3x the rate of younger enrollees to 5x the rate?

these are people staring down fixed income or having to find jobs when they should be enjoying their golden years. wheres the loyalty?

 

[SheriV]

and its ridiculously complex. My dad has severe asthma- he retired two years ago - he doesn't know about this shit but he did plan ahead.
he had to meet with some agent of some kind to best figure out what was in his budget and what was going to help him pay for symbicort, nebulizer, rescue inhalers along with regular pulmonology appointments..and twice a year cat scans- he has polyps on his lungs - never smoked a day in his life - he was a machinist for half his working life before becoming a programmer and has had serious pcb exposure.

where the help for the guy that took care of his kid- made sure I never wanted for anything- lived frugally, saved money, never missed work (seriously...he got some bonus for no sick days taken), and used half of his vacation allotment to put into his retirement fund- which is woefully inadequate. He retired at 65 because as he put it- he wanted to collect social security before it disappeared.

these are my parents, my kids, my friends and neighbors- I wont shut up about it even if I happen to be in an ok position-for now- but what happens to my insuranace premiums and healthcare next year?
I picked up my vyvanse script yesterday and was just looking this morning at what my insurance paid and its almost 400 a month- what if that was a needed life saving drug- rather than just making me a functional adult? how many people live in poverty because they have mental health issues- real honest to god chemical imbalances or a damaged frontal lobe (tbi, adhd, a few others) and its so severe they really need this medication to not go kill 20 first graders in a school with a semi automatic weapon....

fuck them? fuck the danger they pose? fuck the financial drain on society?

 

[heckler7]

I dont know what the future holds for healthcare and altho people hope trump fails, I hope for everyone that at least this one program gets fixed, it really is far overdue

 

[SheriV]

I dont know what the future holds for healthcare and altho people hope trump fails, I hope for everyone that at least this one program gets fixed, it really is far overdue

agreed
its a legitimate crisis for some- the rate ratcheting really affected our budget for a couple of years..I don't know what changed this year but the rates are lower with the same plans with better choices

 

[charley]

I dont know what the future holds for healthcare and altho people hope trump fails, I hope for everyone that at least this one program gets fixed, it really is far overdue

... agreed !00%.. we need health care ... I don't want trump to fail, I want him to tell the truth, & show his federal income taxes, act like he is the POTUS for all Americans .... right now he's potus for about 40% of the American people,,