First cycle... What do u think?

[gr81]

alright dude, go ahead and run your little bitch cycle of 200 mgs b/c mudge says so, we will see what you get out of it. It is a waste of money, all you are doing is throwing your hormonal balance out of wack with a dose like that. The point of using steroids is to have a test level much higher than normal incase you haven't noticed that. You will not have a heart attack generally by runnign a dose like 800 mgs. Nor is it irresponsible to tell someone to run a dose like that. That just happens to be your opinion and your experience. many other people have the opposite experience.

 

[Mudge]

Originally posted by darklight
how would i see that i'll need to use anti-arom? in oher words, how would i know that it's running fine?

Anti estrogens are weak estrogens used with the intent of occupying the receptor site before stronger estrogen can bind. Anti aromatase lessesn the conversion to start with, so that increased estrogen will never have existed, period.

 

[Mudge]

Originally posted by gr81
That just happens to be your opinion and your experience. many other people have the opposite experience.

Please, send me to them so I may see the light of pussies who need drugs to fix all thier problems. I want to see thier bassackwards training routines, thier diets, the whole 9 yards. I know they aren't on any boards I frequent, or they are so ashamed they never speak up.

Thanks

 

[Mudge]

Originally posted by gr81
now you are just putting words into my mouth. I wouldnt' advise anyone to run orals at that high a dose. I never said 5 grams of test, I said 800mgs, which is a gross exaggeration. Nor did I say 100mgs dbol or 300 abomb. That is not where I am coming from at all. I suggest that people start off high instead fo working up for some silly reason. Not extreme mega doses like you posted, but higher doses than 400 mesely mgs of test.

If he is starting out twice as high as he should, he will be seeing these doses pretty soon.

 

[darklight]

It's not because mudge said so! it's because i think it's the more wise thing to do! Sh*t, if it don't works, i'll try in the next cycle a 400 dose and so on...

 

[Mudge]

I would rather run less, than more. Its your first cycle, like mine I wanted to experience it, I also was not banking on putting on 30 pounds and making everyone overly suspicious, as it was I had already done so anyway even at my height.

Good luck

 

[gr81]

hey I agree that BB rely on drugs too much and the diet and training less. We totally agree, I also agree that steroid use is out of control. UI know that its not a fix all, miracle cure. I know all about it and I agree with you man. If it was up to me there would be far less people running cycles, believe that. I am constantly telling newbies on here to think twice and get educated before they choose to run shit. Thats the way of the game though. My views are noto crazy thou, nor am I alone. I have read lots of shit that condones starting off at a higher dose.
Besides, what works for John Defendis, especially his training style, although admirable, is unrealistic for anyone to try and mimic. At least anyone with the regular genetics that he did not have. You also cant say that you have horrible genetics. Horribel genetics would be some kid who is a 150 or some shit like that. How can you say that no mentor has ever advocated high dosage use? What about Dan Duchaine? he talked all the time about running higher doses..anyways I am done arguing with you. Its all good. I disagree

 

[darklight]

Posted here to ask opinions no to take any partidary choice... Ggg! Relax all!!
I don't have suck experience in roids, but got some past! Know some drugs! And i know that inittiating someone with a high dose could be jsut fine but could also lead into a disaster! as a low dose could also make the worst!!
But the wise choice is probably the safest... starting with ease...
I'm no hurry man!
Besides I'm gonna spend that money anyway, anyhow or in other bullshit! As we people always do...

 

[Mudge]

Originally posted by gr81
You also cant say that you have horrible genetics. Horribel genetics would be some kid who is a 150 or some shit like that.

Nice post, good flavor.

I would say on a scale of 1:10, minus my height I feel like I am maybe a 4, but then again I'm a white guy. My natural bodytype is thin, with higher bodyfat than I choose, if you look in my gallery I have a pic of me during a comeback about 2 years ago. I look like a f#cking stick, and I was 210-215 pounds there.

 

[darklight]

at my age man, how were you?

 

[Mudge]

About 205, I lifted but I didn't pay attention to diet, and I read those stupid magazines.

 

[gr81]

Originally posted by Mudge
Nice post, good flavor.

I would say on a scale of 1:10, minus my height I feel like I am maybe a 4, but then again I'm a white guy. My natural bodytype is thin, with higher bodyfat than I choose, if you look in my gallery I have a pic of me during a comeback about 2 years ago. I look like a f#cking stick, and I was 210-215 pounds there.

my point was that everyone thinks they have bad genetics, but when you stop and think about it, they probably aren't as bad as some who have really bad genetics to work with. You have put on a good amount of weight and were able to build lots of strength. be thankful for that. I have been there were I have sursed my genetics, b/c I certianly don't have pro BB genetics, in fatc my strength genetics suck. I have had to work real hard just to lift the weight I am. All I am saying is its all about perspective. ya dig?

 

[darklight]

So you're saying that i have a bad genetics of being 21 with 150?

Not quite simple... genetics is a physical, most Quemical coumpund! but you can change it...

 

[Mudge]

95% or so of us are hardgainers to begin with, its just not natural to carry huge amounts of muscle. Most people though have a problem with diet, I took in about 5500 calories today and really my weight doesn't move around much, but stuffing in another 1k or so on a regular basis is going to be a challenge.

Genetics means alot of things, it doesn't just mean bodyweight etc, gr81 knows this, there are many things that go into a human being.

Some people make great gains off very minor doses, high receptor count, great natural physique

The in betweeners, like me

The people who dont respond (I dont respond to alot of things very well), and those who start out ultra-light who burn calories like a freight train.

Doggcrap aka Dante started out at 137 pounds and was near 300 last I heard, if he drops below 7000 calories a day he starts losing weight.

 

[darklight]

Just saying that someone as a bad genetics based on it's weight it's stupid! And everyone knows that! You have powerlifters that don't have much weight at all and still have medals!

Mudge, you are goddamn right here! probably (genetcly) could lead a person to be a hardgainer or not! F' course it's easier for this person to gain more mass and maintain it... I ate for about 4000 cal a day and i am earning a little weight time to time, have to uptake to see some gains! the problem is that if i miss my brakfast bekause i've been sleeping i can lose about 1 pound! This is a sh*t...
Don't wonder that a person like Doggcrap aka Dante can be huge, but if he misses some cals it will gona be down in weight!

The thing is if i wanna make some gains with food, believe me, i'll have to spend a lot! But well, we're always improving diet...

I know that i have more potencial at strenght, a lot more, but i'm not givving up BB just because it's harder for me to hypertrophy! Or just convincing myself to quit just because i weight 150 and assume that as a bad genetics! That would be stupid from my part since i'm only probably at 1/5 of my potencial! Gonna train and train and train and diet like a freak if i'll have to! May have slower gains than other person, but you bet i know a few that that just don't take the chance of having a good genetcs! well, you have people like jay cutler, ronnie, and so on... That's people who just have good genetics and who were smart enought to deal with it to be superior!

I'm not gonna quit, and i wouldn't even if i had a worse gentics than i have!

 

[Mudge]

Yes and no, if you want to be 300 pounds and you are 150, then you have a huge genetic struggle to overcome to get there. It would also imply that the frame of the person is exceptionally small, but it really depends what your goals are.

I can lose 5 pounds in 2 days by missing about 2k calories, most of that is of course water weight. For hypertrophy you obviously need for something to be there other than stickly mass, for tall people this is almost always a problem. A shorter person can put on 20 pounds and look very improved, while a taller person may have to put on 40-60.

A very average looking guy at my gym is 6'5" 260, he looks smaller than I do, I'm about 10 pounds under him and 3 inches less, he is going to have a harder time than me. I really can't even tell that he lifts, thats how bad it is.

 

[darklight]

Agree with the goals and objectives! Know two guys who were considerously thin, and when started to train they improved a lot... With a good diet indeed! But one of them got bigger, cause of genetics! But the other guy still look pretty big... Besides they almoust have the same strenght! but that's a diff story...

Yup, you're goddamn right about tallness... But since i am not much tall at all..! i am 175 cm (wished more), dunno what measurement converstion is... what is the unit you use? ft or inches? I'm assuming that he's tall, about 198 cm (used ft unit to convert)!

 

[Mudge]

2.54cm per inch, 12 inches in a foot. Yes your buddy is tall, I would be 188cm.

 

[darklight]

so you when you say 6'5" it is: 6 ft and 5 inch?

If made a physics exam in that units, surely it would be a mess!

You're taller than me bro.. Well, think that most americans are!


Back to the original topic;

Well, being defeated by the evidence..! Need to diet for the next year, reading some gear stuff, and when i would reach about 185 i can think about 1st cycle!
Am i right?

 

[Mudge]

6 foot and 5 inches is 6'5" yep, that would be a pretty tall person.

Well, you can start whenever you want, but it is best to nail down the training and diet before you get started so that you aren't dissapointed with the results. Diet know how of the two of these I would say is the most difficult not only to learn, but to stay consistent with.

When you get the "natural package" going, then you could start, if that sounds like a plan to you. I dont believe in trying to max out your natural potential first because I think thats an entirely over talked about topic, I dont think that people top out at all, do you really want to wait another 10 years while you put on your last 1.5 inches on your arms? Eventually things slow down to an excruciating pace...

 

[darklight]

Yep! That's alright a plan!
The training is already being well explored(always learning), dieting i know, it's a hard piece! Needs a good schedule, and most of it , to keep it!
No trying to start at the end of my potencial, just when i feel prepared to!

Thks for the advices !!


(For me, u can close this one)

 

[Mudge]

I will leave it open unless you really want it closed, in case someone else has input they feel like sharing or any questions for you...

All knowlege is an evolving process, so when you feel ready, hopefully you are right.

Good luck

 

[darklight]

For me it's ok!

Thks