gyno from prop & next cycle advice

[Tha Don]

is gyno still a common concern on test prop? what would be a safe dose be? 75-100mg EOD, along with a good AI such as adex @ 0.5mg EOD?

how does this look for a lean gainer

weeks 1-6 test prop 75mg/eod
weeks 1-6 anavar 50mg/ed

also, would adding masteron be of any benefit, or would it be useful to have on hand just incase gyno develops from the test? if so i could switch to 100mg masteron EOD instead till the end of the cycle? as i've heard it is a good replacement for gyno prone athletes

any thoughts?

 

[redspy]

Given your cycle history of gyno problems prop (as with any test ester) presents a risk to you. However, if you employ nolva throughout the cycle you should be okay. I personally wouldn't run an AI.

If you push this cycle out to 8 weeks and run 100mg of prop EOD I think you'll see some decent lean gains.

Have you thought about using tren ace?

 

[Tha Don]

i've thought about tren, but TBH i'm a bit put off by the whole 'tren cough' thing, and also the HPTA supression

why don't you recommend the use of an AI? what about proviron?

also would oral turinabol be an alternative to the var?... i'm just trying to get some ideas, i was thinking of EQ/primo originally, but i'd rather keep this next cycle shorter

 

[redspy]

Tren side effects can definitely be unpleasent, but the anabolic and fat burning effects are tremendous. I'm running Tren Enanthate right now and don't have any coughing issues, although I do get feelings of nausea on and off. HPTA supression can be helped with frequent use of HCG.

With regard to AIs my personal opinion is that they are over used by many people, Estrogen isn't completely evil and is important for lipid health, bone density, libido and joint health. I've never used an AI as I've never had the need to, even if using 750mg+ of test. Proviron is a useful steroid for improving libido when using suppressive compounds like Deca and Tren.

Tbol will probably give you better gains and is more cost efficent, but Var is very mild in terms of sides and its effect on the liver. Primo is too expensive for the gains it offers IMO.

 

[Tha Don]

thanks for those thoughts redspy, the tren does sound very appealing! but would masteron not provide similar fat burning characteristics? (obviously not the anabolic effect though!), i am a fan of hcg so i'd run that throughout the cycle regardless of what compounds i go with

i hear your points about the AI's, but i would prob feel safer on 0.5mg EOD of adex, i know when i went upto 0.5mg ED it was definate overkill! i could feel it in my joints! but i felt fine on 0.5mg EOD

yeah tbol is something i'm considering, but anavar has the benefits on collagen and cross-linking right? i'm not sure about tbol, but it would be nice to have something in there that is going to keep my joints/tendons strong, if not no biggie, its not like i'm running anything that extreme

 

[Tough Old Man]

Little brother it looks like you fucked. Man give it a while and stay off and just eat good. There are a ton of people that can't do things for a reason. you appear to be one of them. I'm asking you to stop before you really end up with some serious problems. Gear is just not right for you and you need to look for other ways to build. Gear doesn't have to fit into the picture. Look at Gopro and Cowpimp, there none users.

Sorry bro, I consider you a friend but have to tell you the way I feel. ....PT

 

[redspy]

I've never used masteron, but it appears to have some interestsing characteristics. I personally view it as something for pre-contest to really harden you up when you already have very low BF levels. In terms of bang for your buck it doesn't seem to compare to the brute force of tren.

 

[Cardinal]

I still get really bad gyno problems even with as little as 200-250 mg test prop per week fyi. My problem with using nolvadex or anything else that limits estrogen is that I seem to get really insane hair loss from it. I personally will just make the choice to have surgery in the future and keep my hair intact.

Tren may exacerbate your gyno issues despite efforts to keep it at bay. Otherwise it would be my favorite steroid (based on results) hands down.

 

[GFR]

1-10 masteron 100mg EOD
1-9 EQ 600mg


This is a type of cycle Lam told me would be good if gyno was a problem.
You can add tren to it and/or bump up the EQ to 800mg a week.

 

[GFR]

Little brother it looks like you fucked. Man give it a while and stay off and just eat good. There are a ton of people that can't do things for a reason. you appear to be one of them. I'm asking you to stop before you really end up with some serious problems. Gear is just not right for you and you need to look for other ways to build. Gear doesn't have to fit into the picture. Look at Gopro and Cowpimp, there none users.

Sorry bro, I consider you a friend but have to tell you the way I feel. ....PT

Ban Him!!!!

 

[Tha Don]

Little brother it looks like you fucked. Man give it a while and stay off and just eat good. There are a ton of people that can't do things for a reason. you appear to be one of them. I'm asking you to stop before you really end up with some serious problems. Gear is just not right for you and you need to look for other ways to build. Gear doesn't have to fit into the picture. Look at Gopro and Cowpimp, there none users.

Sorry bro, I consider you a friend but have to tell you the way I feel. ....PT

as much as i appriciate your opinions i have to say i really don't have a clue what you are saying here? so i got a little gyno from dbol.. that means i should never touch another steroid?.. c'mon man, you and i both know i still have plenty of options avaliable to me, if you'd be kind enough to PM me with some sort of explaination to the points i've highlighted above i'd appriciate it, please keep the negative remarks out of my actual threads as its not quite relevant to what i'm asking, thanks

 

[Tha Don]

I've never used masteron, but it appears to have some interestsing characteristics. I personally view it as something for pre-contest to really harden you up when you already have very low BF levels. In terms of bang for your buck it doesn't seem to compare to the brute force of tren.

yeah i don't think i should mess with tren just yet, i think prop and var/OT would be enough for me to see some great gains due to my limited use, running t3 on the cycle is also a definate possibility! i think i heard foreman say he actually added a fair bit of LBM and lost some fat on his last cycle! and he credits a lot of it to the cytomel, that sounds like the sort of results i'm after! providing i taper on and off very slowly there shouldn't be any risk of long-term thyroid damage should there? how long till my thyroid gets back to baseline levels after say a 6 week cycle?

 

[Tha Don]

I still get really bad gyno problems even with as little as 200-250 mg test prop per week fyi. My problem with using nolvadex or anything else that limits estrogen is that I seem to get really insane hair loss from it. I personally will just make the choice to have surgery in the future and keep my hair intact.

so what do you run for pct?

i'm on 250mg/wk enan right now and having no real problems with it, although my gyno seems to be taking a while to clear, but it doesn't seem to be any worse, i took my last shot last fri, so only 1.5 weeks left on, just waiting for it to clear now, i have to say i do feel great ATM, i think the emotional problems i had at the start were due to the dbol, overeating and then the huge nolva doses, low doses seem to work fine for me, i do seem to respond very well to roids anyway, so another reason why i don't plan on running anything too heavy next time round, its just unnecessary IMO, this cycle has certainly made me wise up a bit!

 

[Tough Old Man]

as much as i appriciate your opinions i have to say i really don't have a clue what you are saying here? so i got a little gyno from dbol.. that means i should never touch another steroid?.. c'mon man, you and i both know i still have plenty of options avaliable to me, if you'd be kind enough to PM me with some sort of explaination to the points i've highlighted above i'd appriciate it, please keep the negative remarks out of my actual threads as its not quite relevant to what i'm asking, thanks

It's not just the gyno I was thinking about, but looking at the whole picture and all the other problems you have delt with. Gyno, nose bleeds, high blood pressure. Now if you don't consider yourself a gear risk factor, then cool. These above things will only probably get worst. So don't listen to me and just do what you want cause your going to anyways. I'll stay away from your post in the anabolic forum. Good luck with all your health problems when doing gear.


Tough

 

[Tha Don]

It's not just the gyno I was thinking about, but looking at the whole picture and all the other problems you have delt with. Gyno, nose bleeds, high blood pressure. Now if you don't consider yourself a gear risk factor, then cool. These above things will only probably get worst. So don't listen to me and just do what you want cause your going to anyways. I'll stay away from your post in the anabolic forum. Good luck with all your health problems when doing gear.


Tough

i think putting on over 15lbs in the space of 3 weeks had somehting do do with that, i went from 175lbs at the end of cutting, all the way upto 190lbs 2 weeks into my cycle! then 195lbs by the end of week 3! till i'd had enough, just putting weight on that fast ain't healthy, gear or not! i've ran milder cycles with no problems, even my 1st dbol cycle i was fine apart from a bit of gyno at the end, i'm sure i'll be just fine, believe it or not i do actually consider my health as a main priority, i'd even put my health above all of this, hence why i will be running something a lot milder next time round, i'm just getting ideas, you never know.. i might come off from this, recover well, make a bit of natural progress and decide i don't need the gear! i just wanted to get some ideas for my next cycle, thats not to say i'm going to be running it anytime soon, we'll see what happens

 

[Tough Old Man]

i think putting on over 15lbs in the space of 3 weeks had somehting do do with that, i went from 175lbs at the end of cutting, all the way upto 190lbs 2 weeks into my cycle! then 195lbs by the end of week 3! till i'd had enough, just putting weight on that fast ain't healthy, gear or not! i've ran milder cycles with no problems, even my 1st dbol cycle i was fine apart from a bit of gyno at the end, i'm sure i'll be just fine, believe it or not i do actually consider my health as a main priority, i'd even put my health above all of this, hence why i will be running something a lot milder next time round, i'm just getting ideas, you never know.. i might come off from this, recover well, make a bit of natural progress and decide i don't need the gear! i just wanted to get some ideas for my next cycle, thats not to say i'm going to be running it anytime soon, we'll see what happens

It's that quick water retention that gets most. look "D" try some Test Prop and EQ and see how you do.
Shit you could hit it like this and get some good gains without so many side effects
1-10 Prop @ 200mgs EOD
1-10 EQ @ 600-800 EW
This would give you a total dosage of between 1300-1500 mgs EW. Tha's plenty for good gains and they would be solid without water retention.

A better choice because of the gyno might be masteron and EQ


PT

 

[GFR]

is gyno still a common concern on test prop? what would be a safe dose be? 75-100mg EOD, along with a good AI such as adex @ 0.5mg EOD?

how does this look for a lean gainer

weeks 1-6 test prop 75mg/eod
weeks 1-6 anavar 50mg/ed

also, would adding masteron be of any benefit, or would it be useful to have on hand just incase gyno develops from the test? if so i could switch to 100mg masteron EOD instead till the end of the cycle? as i've heard it is a good replacement for gyno prone athletes

any thoughts?

Prop was just as bad as Test E or Cyp was for me..when gyno is concerned

 

[Cardinal]

so what do you run for pct?

i'm on 250mg/wk enan right now and having no real problems with it, although my gyno seems to be taking a while to clear, but it doesn't seem to be any worse, i took my last shot last fri, so only 1.5 weeks left on, just waiting for it to clear now, i have to say i do feel great ATM, i think the emotional problems i had at the start were due to the dbol, overeating and then the huge nolva doses, low doses seem to work fine for me, i do seem to respond very well to roids anyway, so another reason why i don't plan on running anything too heavy next time round, its just unnecessary IMO, this cycle has certainly made me wise up a bit!

I was thinking about just running a low dose nolvadex for maybe 2.5 weeks and see how it goes for pct. I am also curious how well recovery would go with no pct stuff given that I am only taking testosterone. I assume it would take a lot longer like maybe 5-6 weeks, hence why i am still going to use nolva for short duration.

Since July I have really toned down my steroid usage in general.

I have realized that for me, most of the strength gains I got off of some of the stronger cns stimulants (tren, all the ph's) are not so keepable for me but that the muscle gains very much are.

I am having a tough time seeing a reason for me to every really use anything other than testosterone at modest doses since my primary goal now is bodybuilding.

The libido factor of testosterone, good mood, low sides (other than gyno/hair loss) make it ideal. It is also so very cheap in comparison to other roids.

 

[Cardinal]

How the gyno developed over time is also sort of interesting. Right now both are about the diameter of a quarter and noticeably thick. However it doesn't physically seem to be progressing over time now nor is it noticeable (except when they get puffy, you can't see the lumps themselves despite how big they are). I also don't really notice any change in the overall shape of the breast tissue, maybe a bit more fat, but not noticeable. The lumps seemed to develop long after the excess fatty tissue.

I write this b/c I am probably one of the few that kind of 'let it go' a bit without freaking out over it. I didn't figure on there being much feedback of this sort.

-Cardinal

 

[kicka19]

How the gyno developed over time is also sort of interesting. Right now both are about the diameter of a quarter and noticeably thick. However it doesn't physically seem to be progressing over time now nor is it noticeable (except when they get puffy, you can't see the lumps themselves despite how big they are). I also don't really notice any change in the overall shape of the breast tissue, maybe a bit more fat, but not noticeable. The lumps seemed to develop long after the excess fatty tissue.

I write this b/c I am probably one of the few that kind of 'let it go' a bit without freaking out over it. I didn't figure on there being much feedback of this sort.

-Cardinal

your gyno is that exact same as mine, same size and everything, i dotn worry bout it untill it gets puffy which seems to be not happening that often anymore, i also let the gyno go after a bottle of nolva did nothing to slow the progress, have you gone on cycle with the current gyno conditions you have now? and what happened if you did?

 

[TrojanMan60563]

D I would do prop 100-150mg EOD. I wouldn't run any any orals with it. I personally think AIs are good times and would run Arimidex .5mg ED or EOD. I personally prefer ED.

 

[Cardinal]

your gyno is that exact same as mine, same size and everything, i dotn worry bout it untill it gets puffy which seems to be not happening that often anymore, i also let the gyno go after a bottle of nolva did nothing to slow the progress, have you gone on cycle with the current gyno conditions you have now? and what happened if you did?

Yep. It is definitely somewhat painful most of the time, but there is no 'new' growth as far as gyno goes. It is always smaller off test due to lower estrogen i suppose. But it never really gets any worse. Same deal. Only worry when it gets puffy.