Has competetive bodybuilding hit the wall?

[Leon77]

Arnie, 6' 2" and 16.5 stones (1975)
Dorain Yates 5,10" and 19.5 stones (1998)

How far can the human body go? how far can the human organism be pushed by training , diet, supplements and drugs before it simply cannot withstand any more and refuses to grow or fails?

In 10 years time can we expect to see 26 stone bodybuilders?"

in 200 years time is it real to expect bodybuilders 40 stones of cut muscle or maybe 50 stones?

if not, then whats going to keep the sport alive?? keep it going and keep it strong?

New drugs? will they be the answer?

But at the end of the day how far can a man push his body before it fails, how far can the human heart, lungs and other internal organs be stressed??

and how far can the will power of a man be pushed to make the sheer efforts and demand to produce a body far above what we see today?

 

[Machher]

good post.

This could give a test to the genetics of mankind. Wether we "evolve" according to scientists we may. But would that mean there would be 2 different species of human

IMO there isnt a limit. Just with humans given lifespan thats how strong we will ever get. Assuming we had an extra 40 years of youth. Chances are we can improve and get heavier and heaver.

just my opinion.

 

[Doublebase]

You could write a novel about this thread. I think there will be better foods and supplements in the future. As for us evolving physically?.... I dunno.

 

[SlimShady]

if not, then whats going to keep the sport alive?? keep it going and keep it strong?

New body builders will keep the sport alive. Breaking records isn't what the sport is all about anyway. In a sense, it's no different than other sports... young athletes have dreams, and old athletes retire.

 

[Duncans Donuts]

Maybe some gene manipulation?

 

[Mudge]

Myostatin inhibition will be the only thing that makes it look like a removed wall. Ronnie put on 30 pounds in the last year, I'd hardly say Ronnie hit a wall. Does progress slow down? Of course it does, we are making the body do something it would prefer not to.

 

[Uzi9]

good post.

This could give a test to the genetics of mankind. Wether we "evolve" according to scientists we may. But would that mean there would be 2 different species of human

IMO there isnt a limit. Just with humans given lifespan thats how strong we will ever get. Assuming we had an extra 40 years of youth. Chances are we can improve and get heavier and heaver.

just my opinion.

The human species will not evolve in terms of bodybuilding as not enough people do it.... i.e your son and your sons son and your sons sons son arnt gonna be doing it... we are getting weeker as a species in terms of strenght from our caveman days as machinery is doing more and more jobs now... internet shopping, cars (dont have to walk), TV etc.

20 odd years ago from arnolds day humans havent evolved, that is obvious it take 1000`s of years for even the slightest change and the envirmonet must be the same for that group of people throught that time (allthough drugs have and the amount they take)

I belive recored in sport and size in bodybuilding is always broken as of late is beacuse we have to raise ourselves to beat the goal that is now set... human complacency is to blame for not getting maxium perfomance out of this species as once we think were the best our dertermination to better ourselves takes a slant, until that record is beaten.

 

[vegman]

and how far can the will power of a man be pushed to make the sheer efforts and demand to produce a body far above what we see today?

Will-power is infinite. I don't understand your statement

 

[JoeR.]

I think soon you wont be seeing any lifters under 6'

You can fit more weight on a bigger frame.

 

[musclepump]

I think soon you wont be seeing any lifters under 6'

You can fit more weight on a bigger frame.

I think it will be a long, long time before lifters are all 6' and taller.

 

[KarlW]

The human species will not evolve in terms of bodybuilding as not enough people do it.... i.e your son and your sons son and your sons sons son arnt gonna be doing it... we are getting weeker as a species in terms of strenght from our caveman days as machinery is doing more and more jobs now... internet shopping, cars (dont have to walk), TV etc.

20 odd years ago from arnolds day humans havent evolved, that is obvious it take 1000`s of years for even the slightest change and the envirmonet must be the same for that group of people throught that time (allthough drugs have and the amount they take)

I belive recored in sport and size in bodybuilding is always broken as of late is beacuse we have to raise ourselves to beat the goal that is now set... human complacency is to blame for not getting maxium perfomance out of this species as once we think were the best our dertermination to better ourselves takes a slant, until that record is beaten.

Good post. I agree. Nothing to do with evolution as you say.
I think that BB is much like other sports. How much faster can a man run 100m?

The increments of record breaking become smaller and smaller as time moves forward but they still exist. So yes, one day there will be a sub 9 sec 100m, but that could be 100's of years away. Just as they may well be 340lbs of ripped muscle on a 6' human male, but again, it may take 100's of years.

My guess with BB is that the sport will change again. Where asthetics and symmetry win over sheer mass.

 

[ihateschoolmt]

Arnie, 6' 2" and 16.5 stones (1975)

They seem to lie a little on height, arnold was only about 5'10-5'11. A few of my dad's friends met him and there's no way he's 6'2.

 

[Mudge]

You can fit more weight on a bigger frame.

Yes, but it takes longer to fill out that large frame. We saw a 6'8" competitor in the 90s and he was not nearly as filled out as the shorter guys.

30 pounds on me might look about the same as only 20 on a shorter guy, it takes longer. Just because someone weighs more, or even less, does not mean they will somehow look fuller or better. Manut Bol was 7'7" 280 pounds, but he looked like a coathanger.

 

[vegman]

My guess with BB is that the sport will change again. Where asthetics and symmetry win over sheer mass.

I agree

 

[myCATpowerlifts]

The increments of record breaking become smaller and smaller as time moves forward but they still exist. So yes, one day there will be a sub 9 sec 100m, but that could be 100's of years away.

I doubt that will take hundreds of years
I give it 5-15 at most

and as soon as one person does it
another 10-15 more will follow

Its like the 3 minutes mile barrier that was posted once

No one broke it forever, then when one person showed it could be done
26 broke it the next year ( or something along those lines )

 

[KarlW]

So if only one of you guys could achieve 300 lbs at 5% bf drug free then I'm certain we'll all be there soon after.

 

[sparknote_s]

When we look at remnants of medieval castles doorways and suits of armor, they are all made for much shorter and smaller people. The human race is getting bigger and bigger as time goes on.

 

[Uzi9]

When we look at remnants of medieval castles doorways and suits of armor, they are all made for much shorter and smaller people. The human race is getting bigger and bigger as time goes on.

The only reason for people being bigger now is because on the whole poeple eat a lot more vitimins and nutrients from birth in this modern era then they did back then in those hard times so thier bodies can grow to a fuller potential (thier potential hasnt changed), like i said evolution take many 1000`s of years for even slight changes, do some research.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/faq/cat06.html#Q01

 

[Uzi9]

Also if you look at black african americans on the whole they are much bigger and taller then they are in Africa but they are the same race and are only sperated by a few hundred years.

Its nutrition not evolution

 

[Machher]

The human species will not evolve in terms of bodybuilding as not enough people do it.... i.e your son and your sons son and your sons sons son arnt gonna be doing it... we are getting weeker as a species in terms of strenght from our caveman days as machinery is doing more and more jobs now... internet shopping, cars (dont have to walk), TV etc.

20 odd years ago from arnolds day humans havent evolved, that is obvious it take 1000`s of years for even the slightest change and the envirmonet must be the same for that group of people throught that time (allthough drugs have and the amount they take)

Btw, this is basically darwins survival of the fittest. There is no trigger in mutation of the DNA during the lifting process. If this was the case then we would have evolved a looong time ago. I totally agree with you. Also even by chance if all my decendants lifted religiously there would be no internal "memory" reminding the body that the human species used to lift for generations and its time to evolve.

 

[Uzi9]

Btw, this is basically darwins survival of the fittest. There is no trigger in mutation of the DNA during the lifting process. If this was the case then we would have evolved a looong time ago. I totally agree with you. Also even by chance if all my decendants lifted religiously there would be no internal "memory" reminding the body that the human species used to lift for generations and its time to evolve.

I didnt fully explain myself, if it was life or death to be a big strong bodybuilder then through natural selection (i.e bad genetically poeple for bodybuilding died),
then in the end that race would be stronger on average in 100.000 years then before hand.

 

[Mudge]

Also if you look at black african americans on the whole they are much bigger and taller then they are in Africa but they are the same race and are only sperated by a few hundred years.

You have to keep in mind there is a great deal of variety over there, you have people anywhere from 4 foot to 8 foot tall, thin and thick. Africa is not just one little town with a few million people.

 

[Uzi9]

You have to keep in mind there is a great deal of variety over there, you have people anywhere from 4 foot to 8 foot tall, thin and thick. Africa is not just one little town with a few million people.

On Average they are smaller and thinner then in america, if you have ever researched it you would find out.

And my point is obvious, male nutrition stops you growing to your full potential, which due to african peoples why of life compared to that of African Americas is where you get the answers.

 

[Mudge]

On Average they are smaller and thinner then in america, if you have ever researched it you would find out.

I would not argue that food is more plentiful here, but when you say "much bigger and taller" this is IMO missleading. Victor Richards came from Africa, and I've only twice seen anyone who could at best match his size much less make him look puny by being "much bigger and taller."

I can point out plenty of skinny black men here in the states, plenty of short ones as well. They are not all muscle bound superhumans, there is too much variety to classify them as all 6'5" 340 pound supermen.

 

[Uzi9]

I would not argue that food is more plentiful here, but when you say "much bigger and taller" this is IMO missleading. Victor Richards came from Africa, and I've only twice seen anyone who could at best match his size much less make him look puny by being "much bigger and taller."

I can point out plenty of skinny black men here in the states, plenty of short ones as well. They are not all muscle bound superhumans, there is too much variety to classify them as all 6'5" 340 pound supermen.

I don`t want to keep pointing out what I am saying again and again but on AVERAGE Africa Amercians are much bigger then Africans because a huge number are staving and have had mal nutrition from an early age which has hindered bone growth this fact is undisputed, and when I say much I don???t automatically mean 1 foot and 100lbs either..


The fact, which I was backing up, is that evolution hasn???t taken place since African???s entered America only their lifestyle has changed.


If you have ever been to Africa you would understand just what mal nutrition looks like in so many people and the affect it has when they are older.

 

[Duncans Donuts]

The fact, which I was backing up, is that evolution hasn???t taken place since African???s entered America only their lifestyle has changed.

Evolution, if it's an accurate theory, takes place over many many many many many years..not in generations.

 

[Mudge]

I don`t want to keep pointing out what I am saying again and again but on AVERAGE Africa Amercians are much bigger then Africans

Being the most obese nation in the world kind of implies that we are bigger, doesn't it?

 

[Uzi9]

Being the most obese nation in the world kind of implies that we are bigger, doesn't it?

Well that is OBVIOUS isn???t it mudge???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

But I am also talking bone structure (male nutrition hinders bone growth)

Then again maybe you can find something else about which you can criticise a post about from quoting me on just on a line or sentence without even thinking to bother what point is being made.

Now this is my point for dummies.

Main Topic: Evolution

Argument: Humans aren???t going to evolve into bigger bodybuilders genetically on average.

Because: A) No need to be big and strong to survive on a mass scale so natural selection will not take place.

Now In response to sparknote_s


Originally Posted by sparknote_s

When we look at remnants of medieval castles doorways and suits of armour, they are all made for much shorter and smaller people. The human race is getting bigger and bigger as time goes on.

Step by step for dummies

Back then people on the whole didn???t get the nutrients that people do today in modernised societies so on AVERAGE they will be smaller then people now, on AVERAGE!

Proof:

Africa is a starving nation

YES

Millions of Africans are mal nourished from an early age

YES

Mal nourishment hinders bone growth

YES

African Americans that are not mixed are genetically the same as in Africa

YES

On AVERAGE African Americans have larger frames and size due to the fact that they get better nutrition from an early age so are on AVERAGE bigger then they are in Africa

YES

So evolution hasn???t taken place but one set of people is bigger then the other due to the fact of better nutrition, an EXAMPLE of why people back in the medieval era where smaller on AVERAGE.

I am done with this thread.

 

[Machher]

I didnt fully explain myself, if it was life or death to be a big strong bodybuilder then through natural selection (i.e bad genetically poeple for bodybuilding died),
then in the end that race would be stronger on average in 100.000 years then before hand.

you still fail to understand. Life or death situations... what causes "natural selection". They still have the same genetic make up. Nothing has changed therefore no evolution. To me it sounds like you are referring to a Bodybuilding Holocaust the weak are thrown away and the strong remain. Still no genes have been changed and DNA makeup remains exactley the same as 3000 years ago.

 

[Uzi9]

you still fail to understand. Life or death situations... what causes "natural selection". They still have the same genetic make up. Nothing has changed therefore no evolution. To me it sounds like you are referring to a Bodybuilding Holocaust the weak are thrown away and the strong remain. Still no genes have been changed and DNA makeup remains exactley the same as 3000 years ago.

I think its you that doesn???t understand, I quote this from a scientist:


"Darwin correctly understood that natural selection is usually the most powerful mechanism of evolution. However, he did not fully comprehend how it operates. This was due to the fact that he was largely ignorant of the mechanisms of genetics. That knowledge mostly came after his time. We now know that natural selection's effect on individuals depends on their phenotypes which in turn are determined mostly by their genotypes. The environment ultimately selects individuals with the best suited genotypes to survive to reproduce. Those individuals who have more surviving offspring pass on more of their genes to the next generation. As a consequence, the gene pool frequencies shift in the direction of their more adaptive alleles"


So in a world where the strong survive (natural selection which starts evolution) then more and more would pass on their genes


Web site here:

http://anthro.palomar.edu/synthetic/synth_7.htm