Here's Kerry for you!

[ALBOB]

we should see how deep a 50 cal will penetrate a stack of encyclopedias.

That's a cool idea.

 

[maniclion]

At World Summits we should be able to jump on the table and yell BOO! and then laugh at all the little bitch countries that flinch, "fuck the world and don't ask me for shit and everything I got I had to work hard for it" and those little starving kids with flies all over their face should learn how to catch'em and eat'em cause thats good protein right there. Fuck all those bitches, if they're dumb enough to work for 0.30 cents an hour then let'em doesn't that amount to like $30.00 in their seashell currency, I mean they're all so primitive living in caves and huts. And just cause they let children work at age 5 that shows that they know the importance of earning a living. I give thousands to my Pastor every year and he prays for their little souls, it makes me feel good that I know Jesus will save their little lives one day when they realize he died for their sins, you know like living in uncivilized ways not taking baths and having intercourse with each other all over the place like filthy little animals how dare they continue having children, I mean if you get the urge to reproduce thats what goats are for, haven't they even learnt that yet? Well I gotta go and reset my booby traps I think one of them Federal Agents was trying to get near my house last night or maybe it was one of them A-rabs ragheads tryin' to get my fireworks I stockpiled before those liberal hippies banned them so I couldn't celebrate independence day by setting the acres of grassland behind my barn on fire. I don't have nothing against all the Ragheads but like I told that guy at the Texaco if he so much as smiles funny I'll put my boot in his ass just count my change and tell me thank you and try not to use too much accent when doing it, I mean come on at least try to speak english it is the American thing to do. And then he has the nerve to make up some story about being born in Texas and coming from second generation Indian immigrants from England and about how his mother and father were born in Texas and his Grandfather was born in England. So I was like "aah, so yall've been planting seeds in these countries for generations now huh?" "I'll just hav'ta let President George W. Bush in on your little conspiracy." I threw a bag of Doritos up in the air and sliced it open with my buck knife sending chips all over to camoflauge my escape to my Pick-up with the 20 point buck antlers mounted on the hood, i high-tailed it out of their and from that day on I decided never to get my gas there......

 

[Stickboy]

Um, err, WTF are you talking about?

 

[ALBOB]

Um, err, WTF are you talking about?

Roughly translated it means, "Yes stewardess, I'd love some sugar with my coffee."

 

[maniclion]

Roughly translated it means, "Yes stewardess, I'd love some sugar with my coffee."

...And a few of those little bottles of JD, and some more of those pretzels. Do you think they allow those on Airforce One or do they consider them a threat to national security?

Stewardess "I don't know sir. Probably."

 

[Pierzin]

can you spell?

Rich46yo,
Is it so hard to spell Clinton with a "C"? I am sure you have seen this word a thousand times? Why do you spell it with a K? Is this a reference to something, misspelling a famous mans name? I can't read your posts here, really because I can't get past your poor spelling.

BTW, I totally agree with your point about the poor always doing the fighting. That is so true.

In any case, I am not better off than I was 4 years ago.

 

[Pierzin]

Clinton didn't just pull his "surplus" out of his a$$. It came from somewhere.

Can you name this country?
709,000 REGULAR (ACTIVE DUTY) PERSONNEL.
293,000 RESERVE TROOPS.
EIGHT STANDING ARMY DIVISIONS.
20 AIR FORCE AND NAVY AIR WINGS WITH 2,000 COMBAT AIRCRAFT.
232 STRATEGIC BOMBERS.
19 STRATEGIC BALLISTIC MISSILE SUBMARINES WITH 3,114 NUCLEAR
WARHEADS ON 232 MISSILES.
500 ICBMs WITH 1,950 WARHEADS.
FOUR AIRCRAFT CARRIERS
AND 121 SURFACE COMBAT SHIPS AND SUBMARINES
PLUS ALL THE SUPPORT BASES, SHIPYARDS, AND LOGISTICAL ASSETS
NEEDED TO SUSTAIN SUCH A NAVAL FORCE.
IS THIS COUNTRY:
RUSSIA? NO
CHINA? NO
GREAT BRITAIN? NO
FRANCE? WRONG AGAIN
MUST BE USA? STILL WRONG
GIVE UP?
THESE ARE THE AMERICAN MILITARY FORCES
THAT WERE ELIMINATED DURING THE ADMINISTRATION OF BILL
CLINTON AND AL GORE.
IMAGINE WHAT A JOHN KERRY
ADMINISTRATION WOULD LOOK LIKE CONSIDERING HIS 20 YEAR
VOTING RECORD AGAINST DEFENSE APPROPRIATIONS STARTING
WITH HIS OPPOSITION TO RONALD REAGAN'S SDI INITIATIVE
[STAR WARS] WHICH LED TO THE DEMISE OF THE SOVIET UNION.


Just think about this with an open mind. This is factual
information and could very well happen again if we don't get our
act together.

Those are impressive numbers, which I'll investigate if I have time. And one might wonder why the Soviet Union went bankrupt.

It's no secret that we cut back our national defense. Why did we need that much when the Soviet Union had collapsed? History repeats itself. We did it after WWI, but not after WWII, because then the Soviet Union was a threat.
Politicians across the country favored those cutbacks. You can't really blame it all on Clinton, it had to go through Congress.

What concerns me now, and I am no rocket scientist, is what in the world are we as a nation going to do in that hornets nest of Iraq? Did our strategic planners really think the Iraqis would welcome us like the liberators of France during WWII??? In every country we've gone into we are still there. We are still In Germany, Korea, and now Iraq and Afghanistan.

Since terrorism & national defense is such an important issue to us, any politician who knows which way the wind is blowing should be saavy enough to favor building up the military - again.

Hell, I tried to sign up after 9-11, but they wouldn't let me. Otherwise I'd probably be in Iraq right now.

Keep an open mind. Peace!

 

[Big Smoothy]

Here's a good one for you guys that hate Kerry so much:

Why doesn't the left wing liberal media make a huge issue about George Bush not being at his Alabama national guard unit?

Great point Pierzin. No one is asking Bush where he was. Strange.

Bush was a draft dodger who then supports starting wars with dubious intentions. People like this are called Chickhawks.

Wolfawitz never even served in the military.

Cheney dodged the draft also.

Pat Buchanan at the 1992 RNC criticized Clinton for not going to Vietnem when he himself got a medical deferment for a "bad knee."

Hypocrisy. Nothing like hypocrisy.

 

[Rich46yo]

Yeah, we need to build militant clones and run around nude practicing sword play. It's all about beating the shit out of pygmy countries and making sure they know that America can whoop their ass. Books should be used as target practice, we should see how deep a 50 cal will penetrate a stack of encyclopedias. Diplomacy is overrated, I say War is the answer brothers shock and awe, scare and terrorize the world and let them feel the hot breath of America cause we rule the world and they can only dream of holding such power. We got Iraq and Afghanistan lets just go ahead and pinch that pimple Iran while we're at it, wait we're gonna need more troops throw your condoms away America and start fucking your brains out we need to supply faster than we are losing them. Drop that No Child Left Behind shit and implement the Every Child Deserves a Rifle act they gotta start early, and the purple dinosaur has to go we need a fire breathing dragon with sharp fangs and claws barking orders at our toddlers so that when they get into middle school and start their ass hardening classes they won't cry as loud.

What the hell is this guy talking about? ...........Didnt we already give such emotional/leftist/manifestos a chance? What are we supposed to do with the deranged Mullahs in Iran, as they are on the verge of becoming a nuclear weapons state? They will shortly have ICBMs capable of even reaching North America.................oh why am I even bothering. Characters like this are the reason Militant Islam has gotten so powerful and threatening. Its birthplace was Tehran in 1979, the "give peace a chance crowd" fucked us then and has been providing cover for tyrants ever since.

America and the world will rue the day they allowed Iran/North Kprea to develope such capabilities. Most of all Russia and China, whos mainlands will be much closer to the radiation then our own will be.................take care...............Rich

 

[Rich46yo]

Rich46yo,
Is it so hard to spell Clinton with a "C"? I am sure you have seen this word a thousand times? Why do you spell it with a K? Is this a reference to something, misspelling a famous mans name? I can't read your posts here, really because I can't get past your poor spelling.

BTW, I totally agree with your point about the poor always doing the fighting. That is so true.

In any case, I am not better off than I was 4 years ago.

I spell it with a "K" because I think hes a no good kocksucker!!........blunt enough for you?

If you don't like my spelling then don't read my posts. Same goes for what I say.

Vietnam especially was a war fought by the poor. What makes Kerry so bad is he trying to ride a mediocre 4 month service thats full of an awful lot of suspicious inconsistencies. Most of all the Silver Star award and his 3 purple hearts for minor scratches,"hey didn't you get to leave 'nam after 3"? Kerry is the one portraying himself as the big war hero, not Bush. As far as I can tell Bush is content to be the "just another rich kid who avoided 'nam combat".

Then Kerry "suspiciously" got out of the service early to run for congress.

But by far the worst thing Kerry did was backstab his comrades in arms. And he did it for political gain. If backing his brothers would have gained him votes in the '70s then he would have backed his 'nam brothers. But it didnt, and he didnt! Heres a guy who's such a flake he'd sell out his own mother for a few votes.

Its really the story of his life.........take care...............Rich

 

[Dale Mabry]

I don't see why the GOP is making such a big deal about Bush's tax cut. Sure, you would benefit from it if you had a job, but a lot of people who had jobs 4 years ago no longer have them.

I am in the exact same boat I was in 4 years ago. I may save an additional $2 a month on taxes, but I know once this shit war is over they are going to skyrocket, regardless of who is in office.

 

[maniclion]

What the hell is this guy talking about? ...........Didnt we already give such emotional/leftist/manifestos a chance? What are we supposed to do with the deranged Mullahs in Iran, as they are on the verge of becoming a nuclear weapons state? They will shortly have ICBMs capable of even reaching North America.................oh why am I even bothering. Characters like this are the reason Militant Islam has gotten so powerful and threatening. Its birthplace was Tehran in 1979, the "give peace a chance crowd" fucked us then and has been providing cover for tyrants ever since.

America and the world will rue the day they allowed Iran/North Kprea to develope such capabilities. Most of all Russia and China, whos mainlands will be much closer to the radiation then our own will be.................take care...............Rich

You're right World War III is the only way we can secure our nation. Turn out the lights on peace so that all the roaches come pouring out of the wood work and then we flash bomb'em into oblivion. Come on we can't have real Americans without wars cause thats what makes a man, a MAN. Real men don't talk their problems through or educate, they beat people into submission. How about I walk throught the streets today and beat down every person I see with a clenched fist.



Have you ever stopped to consider how afraid of the U.S. these countries probably are and what concerns they have that we will try to force them to be like us. They fear that because they don't understand, they've only seen the nature of what an "American" is through how we have acted in their countries and how their media is spun to make us appear. These people are just as confused us the average American is, being bombarded with real info and lies, stretched truths and opinions. I like to think that at the moment I'm writing this, an arab man or woman is doing the same, attempting to convince a radical militant to look beyond his hate and focus on discovering the humanity of his/her enemy. Discovering that you don't want to force them to be like you anymore than they want to force you to be like them. And that yes their exists in every nation small influential groups that do wish to "erradicate" the globe of certain groups of innocent people that they have lumped into a category they deem as "Devils" or "Axis' of Evil" That they should be fighting their own hate mongers because they can readily pick them out of a crowd rather than trying to kill the wolf in sheeps clothing by killing the herd of a nation they barely understand.

 

[Pierzin]

I spell it with a "K" because I think hes a no good kocksucker!!........blunt enough for you?

If you don't like my spelling then don't read my posts. Same goes for what I say.

Vietnam especially was a war fought by the poor. What makes Kerry so bad is he trying to ride a mediocre 4 month service thats full of an awful lot of suspicious inconsistencies. Most of all the Silver Star award and his 3 purple hearts for minor scratches,"hey didn't you get to leave 'nam after 3"? Kerry is the one portraying himself as the big war hero, not Bush. As far as I can tell Bush is content to be the "just another rich kid who avoided 'nam combat".

Then Kerry "suspiciously" got out of the service early to run for congress.

But by far the worst thing Kerry did was backstab his comrades in arms. And he did it for political gain. If backing his brothers would have gained him votes in the '70s then he would have backed his 'nam brothers. But it didnt, and he didnt! Heres a guy who's such a flake he'd sell out his own mother for a few votes.

Its really the story of his life.........take care...............Rich

Let's see if I get this right...

You are defending a president who led our country into war with a nation that posed no threat to us. The 9-11 commission has concluded that Iraq posed no threat to us, and had no links whatsoever to Al-Quaida. Even Colin Powell has since regretted his statement before the United Nations regarding this. This president continues to obfuscate the truth and abuse power like none since Richard Nixon. And yet, his party continued to pretend that Iraq was linked to 9-11, until very recently.
Every American should be very afraid of this president. Anyone can now be arrested or detained without due process for any period of time, without even being charged. It happened to Cpt Yee.

Our founders would roll over in their graves if they knew of the abuse of power which is now unfolding.

Under Clinton, we had a 4 trillion dollar surplus, and the economy was booming, but he is dispised.(??) Under Bush, we have a huge deficit(I forget what it was last), and a war which we are continuing to fight under false pretenses, the economy is in the dumps, we are in a continual state of anxiety about the price of gas, etc etc.

And about the Vietnam deal, can we let it go? I mean really, it was how long ago? How is that going to help the country now? I brought that up before I saw a newscast where a journalist just suggested we drop both Kerry and Bush's records. (although at this point I think Bush has more to lose than Kerry on that issue)

Maybe Clinton wasn't perfect, nobody is. But last I checked, nobody died getting a BJ!

And finally, maybe you should take some time off and chill. I mean really, none of us are going to meet, we are just discussing issues here. there's no need to get vitriolic and start planning WWIII, I mean, good Lord.

Peace!

 

[Stickboy]

Let's see if I get this right...

You are defending a president who led our country into war with a nation that posed no threat to us. The 9-11 commission has concluded that Iraq posed no threat to us, and had no links whatsoever to Al-Quaida. Even Colin Powell has since regretted his statement before the United Nations regarding this. This president continues to obfuscate the truth and abuse power like none since Richard Nixon. And yet, his party continued to pretend that Iraq was linked to 9-11, until very recently.

Have you read all 585 pages of the 9-11 report, or are you just spitting out the shit that the TV & radio feeds you?

You sir, are mixing fact with fiction.

Abuse of power? Um, excuse me....didn't congress VOTE on the patriot act(s)?

Perhaps you should read the report for yourself.

Every American should be very afraid of this president. Anyone can now be arrested or detained without due process for any period of time, without even being charged. It happened to Cpt Yee.

Only if they are terrorist or criminals. If you are not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about. Again, you are questioning the GOP and the Dems for passing this (yep, they voted on it).

Our founders would roll over in their graves if they knew of the abuse of power which is now unfolding.

Here, we agree. The founding fathers ARE rolling in their grave. Why?

-Public schools were originally established so that people could read the BIBLE.

*What do we have now? You can't say a prayer in school.

-Seperation of church and state.

*The founding fathers intended only what they wrote. The government could not endorse or establish a "official" religion. (This didn't mean you can't have religion in schools, can't have an opening prayer, etc. In other words, we don't have to eradicate God from the public view).

Under Clinton, we had a 4 trillion dollar surplus, and the economy was booming, but he is dispised.(??) Under Bush, we have a huge deficit(I forget what it was last), and a war which we are continuing to fight under false pretenses, the economy is in the dumps, we are in a continual state of anxiety about the price of gas, etc etc.

How do you have a surplus when the country was still in debt at the time? There never was a surplus. It was simply money they were not applying to the national debt. Obviously, people bought into it.

What false pretenses? Iraq was known to have WMD's, couldn't account for all them, and had links to terrorism. (READ the 9/11 report).

The economy was in a recession while BC was still in office. Any economist can tell you that. 9/11 didn't help, but it's turning around. Check your stock prices.

Anxiety about gasoline? Yeah, it's higher than most Americans usually pay. Ever checked out the gas prices in other countries? It's HIGHER. Why? Because they tax the shit out of it. Check the gas prices PER LITER (3.8 to a gallon, if I recall), and tell me our gas is priced to high.

And about the Vietnam deal, can we let it go? I mean really, it was how long ago? How is that going to help the country now? I brought that up before I saw a newscast where a journalist just suggested we drop both Kerry and Bush's records. (although at this point I think Bush has more to lose than Kerry on that issue)

Not really (i.e., let it go?). Kerry is the only one bringing it up. The Bush campaign isn't talking about Veitnam. Kerry brings up his questionable service record as a matter of fitness for the office of President.

Maybe Clinton wasn't perfect, nobody is. But last I checked, nobody died getting a BJ!

Nobody said getting a BJ would kill anyone. The WHOLE POINT of that was that he LIED to congress, LIED to the American people, and did it on video tape. Me, I'd rather my Presidents be honest about it. Evidently, you don't mind being LIED to.

And finally, maybe you should take some time off and chill. I mean really, none of us are going to meet, we are just discussing issues here. there's no need to get vitriolic and start planning WWIII, I mean, good Lord.
Peace!

You are right. No need to plan WWIII .

Perhaps people should figure stuff out for themselves by being informed, instead of spouting the BS they see on the news.

 

[Rich46yo]

Let's see if I get this right...

You are defending a president who led our country into war with a nation that posed no threat to us. The 9-11 commission has concluded that Iraq posed no threat to us, and had no links whatsoever to Al-Quaida. Even Colin Powell has since regretted his statement before the United Nations regarding this. This president continues to obfuscate the truth and abuse power like none since Richard Nixon. And yet, his party continued to pretend that Iraq was linked to 9-11, until very recently.

Some of this been covered already, but I'll answer it again. Nobody "led us into war". We were attacked! We've always known the consortium of Arab, Muslim, and other countries who have directly or indirectly supported terrorism thru the 2nd half of the 20'th century. None of this is a surprise and whether Saddam himself personally had a hand in 9/11 is irrelevant. Ive already listed his A-list of transgressions and Im not going to repeat them again now. The simple fact is we should have attacked and removed Saddam and company 20 times over since Gulf-l, indeed, we never should have listened to the "world community" after Gulf-l and we should have finished him off then.

And who told you Iraq posed "no threat to us". Boy I just love how the lib's rewrite history. Saddam would have always been a threat,ALWAYS! What makes him even worse is he was sitting on huge oil reserves and had a capability to reconstitute his armed forces and threaten our energy supplies. You do remember his sarin showers on his own dont you? His unprovoked scuds into Tel Aviv? His murder and rape of Kuwait? His 8 years war of attrition against Iran? Man you lib's love to currently portray Saddam as a harmless old man.

Every American should be very afraid of this president. Anyone can now be arrested or detained without due process for any period of time, without even being charged. It happened to Cpt Yee.

Oh yeah? Who told you that? Are you even an American? What do yo know about Capt. Yee? Or is he your current poster boy for your cause? Capt. Yee was arrested using information from informants. We may never know what the Govt. had on him because they didnt want to ID their sources. Heres a little info for you flag burner, and it comes straight from the mouth of a policeman. You can only be arrested if there is probably cause you committed a crime.........period! The strong link is that chain is the policeman on the street. I don't give a fuck what George Bush say's, and he can read it right here, If there isn't any probable cause to arrest I don't throw the shackles on anyone. I mean just look at the flag burners thruout history here in America that have led relatively free and safe lives? As much as I hate it, its what makes us great. Even opinions other then mine, by stupid people who think they know more then I, are a celebration of freedom of speech.

Pal Ive been in countries where the secret police really can crash thru your door at 0300, without a warrant, and you can be disappeared maybe forever. Anyone that would compare America to such a place is out of their nut. Your statement is typical Liberal emotionalism thats long on accusations but short on fact. Just cause we've removed American rights from foreign terrorists doesn't mean we removed rights from Americans. Why the hell should foreign terrorists have the same rights as Americans anyway? And how in hell do you connect the two?

Our founders would roll over in their graves if they knew of the abuse of power which is now unfolding.

Our founders have rolled over so many times in our history they are probably sick of it. They despised the concept of getting involved in foreign wars but do you think "they" could have conceived of America growing into the juggernaut it is today? If anything our founders would have groaned over the liberals wanting to re-write the Constitution every time it blocks their legislation initiatives.

Under Clinton, we had a 4 trillion dollar surplus, and the economy was booming, but he is dispised.(??) Under Bush, we have a huge deficit(I forget what it was last), and a war which we are continuing to fight under false pretenses, the economy is in the dumps, we are in a continual state of anxiety about the price of gas, etc etc.

This is funny here. All these people tell me how great an economic president Klinton was but no-one can tell me what he did. The simple fact is that presidents get both to much credit and to much blame about the economy. The economic rebound started when Bush sr was president, something the Klinton crowd loves to forget. But to his credit, and it by no means makes up for his failures, Klinton was smart enough to at least not get in the way of the rebound. A lot of Presidents would have, then again, you have to be fairly smart to be such a good liar.

And what "false pretenses" are you talking about? Maybe you should go back a year or two and re-read again the reasons given for going to war in Iraq. The threat of WMDs was only one of the reasons........remember? And remember your boy Kerry signing on to the war?

How anxious are you over the price of gas? Are you popping Prozac over it? Or are you just running the plastic thru, filling your tank, and saying "fuck it"! An American president has very little control over the price of gas. If your going to be "anxious" about anything maybe start being concerned with our boys who are going into harms way instead of your fucking pocketbook. If you want to see truly "high prices" for gas then go to almost any other country in the world and buy some.



And about the Vietnam deal, can we let it go? I mean really, it was how long ago? How is that going to help the country now? I brought that up before I saw a newscast where a journalist just suggested we drop both Kerry and Bush's records. (although at this point I think Bush has more to lose than Kerry on that issue)

No we cant let it go, tho you'd love to I bet. Young Kerry the bullshit artist turned into older Kerry the bullshit artist, and we aint forgetting. Especially "we" veterans. No doubt that journalist was a secret flag burner, and knew the extant of how Kerrys little 'nam jaunt will haunt him. It was Kerry parading his boatmates in wheelchair's around his campaign stage, waving flags, and screaming what a hero he was. Not Bush and not I. And just like his two-faced flip-flop political record hes going to have to live with it.

Maybe Clinton wasn't perfect, nobody is. But last I checked, nobody died getting a BJ!

Ask the survivors of the USS Cole if anyone died for his bullshit. Or the Khobar towers, the embassy bombings in Africa, Somalia, the first WTC;Indeed, The 2nd WTC bombing. Klinton failed time and time again to protect this nation, the whole time pandering to the UN and the world community. The thing that bothered my most about Bill & Bull is they were 100% political animals. They put politics above everything else, even religion, values, the lives of our troops. Even the lives of American citizens! They were creatures who lived for the latest Poll numbers and everything else be damned.

And finally, maybe you should take some time off and chill. I mean really, none of us are going to meet, we are just discussing issues here. there's no need to get vitriolic and start planning WWIII, I mean, good Lord.

WW-lll was the cold war. Now we are in WW-lV. We didnt start it but we are going to have to end it. This is as much a war of good vs evil as WW-ll was and it would be a mistake to over complicate it. Just because we haven't found WMDS in Iraq, oh the odd shell or two, doesn't mean they have been accounted for and certainly doesn't mean the danger is over from them. This war against INTL terrorism, and their supporting nation states is just starting and we will never,ever be able to live in peace with such regimes.

And its going to get worse before it gets better. I think even you know that. If we allow such rouge nations to arm with these terrible weapons its only a matter of time until there is a catastrophic attack. The preferred way to attack us would be thru client terrorists with the weapons being supplied thru a broken chain that cant be traced or verified. Even something like middle eastern peace will never be accomplished unless thru force of arms from the barrel of an American gun.

Peace!

Never. We'll never have it without fighting for it..........take care...........Rich

 

[Pierzin]

stickboy,
If it makes you feel better, I'm gonna order a copy of the 9-11 Report. I listened to the whole newsbroadcast on the radio. I'm no expert here, I am just trying to get at the truth. I don't think there's really any point to laying blame on something like that.

I have to agree with the powers that be who have concluded that our intelligence agencies were too intertwined and labrynthine to cooperate with each other and do anything about that. It's almost specious to lay blame there, what's done is done, and its a shame it wasn't prevented.

Only if they are terrorist or criminals. If you are not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about. Again, you are questioning the GOP and the Dems for passing this (yep, they voted on it).

You should try telling that to Captain Yee, who was in solitary confinement for 71 days, & whose military career is over.

-Public schools were originally established so that people could read the BIBLE.

*What do we have now? You can't say a prayer in school.

-Seperation of church and state.

And thank God for that! Don't get me started there. Kids have enough to overcome, they don't need to wrestle with God and all that blather while they're at school.


Yes, it does bother me that Clinton lied about his affair. However, I don't think it was anybodys business what he did on his own time, and I happen to beleive that was a witch hunt from 1992 anyway.

How do you have a surplus when the country was still in debt at the time? There never was a surplus. It was simply money they were not applying to the national debt. Obviously, people bought into it.

Several news sources cite a national surplus, I forget who and how many, but I don't think you can argue the economy was better. Any time your country goes to war, the economy suffers.
True, the founders could never have imagined that we would become the Roman Empire of our time, and they could never have imagined how the world would change.

Not really (i.e., let it go?). Kerry is the only one bringing it up. The Bush campaign isn't talking about Veitnam. Kerry brings up his questionable service record as a matter of fitness for the office of President.

I brought it up in this thread because there is currently an attack ad and a news story where Kerry is being attaked for his service in an unpopular war. John McCain has called on this ad to be pulled because he feels the wounds of Vietnam should be healed. I think it is interesting that nobody is asking where George W Bush was, nor is anybody really saying anything about the fact he was AWOL from his guard unit. And why wasn't he in the Texas Guard, anyway? Isn't he from Texas? Isn't that kind of odd?
Kerry should be proud of serving in Vietnam. It's interesting that he is criticized because of something that happened 35 years ago, but nobody says anything about George Bush.

Perhaps people should figure stuff out for themselves by being informed, instead of spouting the BS they see on the news.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Pierzin]

Rich,
You know something, we have a lot in common. My brother, who was an Army Ranger for 12 years, put it like this, Bush should have just come out & said "Saddam tried to kill my daddy, so we're gonna take him out." I agree with your statement, and sympathise, beleive it or not, that we should have taken him out after Gulf War I, World opinion be damned. Finish it off while the iron was hot, then and there.

Would the people support that? We'll never know. Saddam was a dangerous, evil, horrible man. No doubt about it. He killed his own people to stay in power, etc etc. That's what happens when you're a dictator. But was he capable of posing a threat to the USA? While going into Afghanistan was, IMHO, completely justified and necessary, to apprehend those who did plan harm against innocent Americans, the question remains, was going to Iraq the right thing to do?

Flag burning is stupid.
About Captain Yee, well, I'm not gonna sit here and try to convice anybody of anything, I am just stating the facts as I see them.

Screw the price of gas, that is only one concern I hear from economists. Inflation has made the price of milk and bread more than gas, but nobody talks about that much.

What concerns me the most is exactly what you said about our boys in uniform. I said in another post I could have been one of them. Since the work in Iraq has to be finished, it would be better if we had help from other countries, since W has alienated us from World Opinion.

Peace!

 

[Stickboy]

stickboy,
If it makes you feel better, I'm gonna order a copy of the 9-11 Report. I listened to the whole newsbroadcast on the radio. I'm no expert here, I am just trying to get at the truth. I don't think there's really any point to laying blame on something like that.

You don't need to order it. You can download it as a .pdf file.

I have to agree with the powers that be who have concluded that our intelligence agencies were too intertwined and labrynthine to cooperate with each other and do anything about that. It's almost specious to lay blame there, what's done is done, and its a shame it wasn't prevented.

Unfortunately, we can lay blame. Clinton was responsible for the dwindling of our intelligence capabilities.

You should try telling that to Captain Yee, who was in solitary confinement for 71 days, & whose military career is over.

It's unfortunate that it happened, but Captain Yee is responsible for putting himself in that situation. Ultimately, he recieved a letter of reprimand for an affair and downloading pornography on a goverment computer. The government refused to prosecute the original charges because of concerns over damage to national security.

-Public schools were originally established so that people could read the BIBLE.

*What do we have now? You can't say a prayer in school.

-Seperation of church and state.

And thank God for that! Don't get me started there. Kids have enough to overcome, they don't need to wrestle with God and all that blather while they're at school.

Yet, Catholic schools have very few discipline problems and higher test scores. Sounds like those kids are doing just fine "wrestling with God". Not only are they better educated, they are more disciplined than the public schools product.

Yes, it does bother me that Clinton lied about his affair. However, I don't think it was anybodys business what he did on his own time, and I happen to beleive that was a witch hunt from 1992 anyway.

This is a cop out. It IS everybody's business. I don't really care that the man had an affair, that's between him, his wife, and God. If he lies about that, what else might he have lied about? It's an indication of character and integrity. Clinton had none

Several news sources cite a national surplus, I forget who and how many, but I don't think you can argue the economy was better. Any time your country goes to war, the economy suffers.

The news can report anything they want. There was never a surplus of money. It was simply extra money that wasn't going to be applied to the national debt and what not. If I owe, say $40K on my house, and win $20K, is that $20K truly a "surplus"? Sure, I could save it, blow it, or put it on the house, but I'd still be in debt.


True, the founders could never have imagined that we would become the Roman Empire of our time, and they could never have imagined how the world would change.

Not really (i.e., let it go?). Kerry is the only one bringing it up. The Bush campaign isn't talking about Veitnam. Kerry brings up his questionable service record as a matter of fitness for the office of President.

I brought it up in this thread because there is currently an attack ad and a news story where Kerry is being attaked for his service in an unpopular war. John McCain has called on this ad to be pulled because he feels the wounds of Vietnam should be healed. I think it is interesting that nobody is asking where George W Bush was, nor is anybody really saying anything about the fact he was AWOL from his guard unit. And why wasn't he in the Texas Guard, anyway? Isn't he from Texas? Isn't that kind of odd?
Kerry should be proud of serving in Vietnam. It's interesting that he is criticized because of something that happened 35 years ago, but nobody says anything about George Bush.

The attack ad is not indorsed by the Bush Campaign. It's a privately funded ad (swiftboats) from people that knew JK and evidently, I don't think they think very high of the man.

See, everyone has a past. It's by looking at that past that we can see what kind of honor, character, and integrity has. Kerry is claiming his Vietnam service qualifies him as the President. He's bringing it up, and it's a fair target if he wants to ride his ticket that way.

There were people screaming about Bush's record in the NG. If there were anything to it, the left would still be screaming about it. It vanished from the news almost as quick as it appeared. Then again, Bush isn't stating that his National Guard stint qualifies him to be president.

 

[Pierzin]

We are not going to change our opinions, and I am not going to sit here and defend JK til I am blue in the face.
I beleive it is specious to blame the president, whoever he may be, for 9-11.
People were after Clinton since before he was even elected president, and that is a fact. And I stand by what I said, that it was nobodys business, but theirs.

According to the New York Times, there are plenty of swing states out there, and whatever happens, will happen. They have the most comprehensive polls I have seen.

I am sure if took the time, I could find all kinds of neat sources to discredit Bush, but I have a life, so i am not going to. i just pop in here out of curiousity.

 

[Dale Mabry]

You don't need to order it. You can download it as a .pdf file.





Unfortunately, we can lay blame. Clinton was responsible for the dwindling of our intelligence capabilities.

Source please

It's unfortunate that it happened, but Captain Yee is responsible for putting himself in that situation. Ultimately, he recieved a letter of reprimand for an affair and downloading pornography on a goverment computer. The government refused to prosecute the original charges because of concerns over damage to national security.



Yet, Catholic schools have very few discipline problems and higher test scores. Sounds like those kids are doing just fine "wrestling with God". Not only are they better educated, they are more disciplined than the public schools product.

Source please. i actually believe the opposite is found true when looking at Standardized test scores.


This is a cop out. It IS everybody's business. I don't really care that the man had an affair, that's between him, his wife, and God. If he lies about that, what else might he have lied about? It's an indication of character and integrity. Clinton had none

And Bush lied about this war, so what is your point?

The news can report anything they want. There was never a surplus of money. It was simply extra money that wasn't going to be applied to the national debt and what not. If I owe, say $40K on my house, and win $20K, is that $20K truly a "surplus"? Sure, I could save it, blow it, or put it on the house, but I'd still be in debt.

Agreed, we were still better off then than we are now. I believe the term Rcord deficit is thrown around quite a bit these days

True, the founders could never have imagined that we would become the Roman Empire of our time, and they could never have imagined how the world would change.

Every Empire in the history of man has fallen. This is why we need to worry about world opinion.

The attack ad is not indorsed by the Bush Campaign. It's a privately funded ad (swiftboats) from people that knew JK and evidently, I don't think they think very high of the man.

See, everyone has a past. It's by looking at that past that we can see what kind of honor, character, and integrity has. Kerry is claiming his Vietnam service qualifies him as the President. He's bringing it up, and it's a fair target if he wants to ride his ticket that way.

There were people screaming about Bush's record in the NG. If there were anything to it, the left would still be screaming about it. It vanished from the news almost as quick as it appeared. Then again, Bush isn't stating that his National Guard stint qualifies him to be president.

Puhlease, the reason no one is making a big deal out of it is because it is obvious that he avoided combat and was awol. I don't think he was awol because he deserted, I think he was awol getting drunk and doing coke, like most people of his generation.

I am typing something here cuz it says my message is too short.

 

[tomas101]

really good find stickboy...fully enjoyed it...it is sad that kerry is the best we can do but i still feel he is better than bush...i was hoping for dean to actually win tho...also i was under the impression that the reason why Clinton cut military funding was due to us not being under the threat of war. You put the money where it's needed most. Bush, on the other hand, was trying to cut pay for soldiers WHILE THEY WERE STILL FIGHTING OVERSEAS.

What's scarier is that you're willing to vote for a man who is proud of the fact that he doesn't read newspapers and relies on his staff to tell him the important stuff. Right, because listening to his staff has worked SO well in the past. Speaking of, where are the WMDs again? We haven't found them, but that doesn't stop him from cracking wise about it during fundraisers.

Have we forgotten about November 2000? The number of votes lost? The number of eligible voters that were fucked over because they had been mysteriously placed on a "felon" list?


I love how liberals are always "crazy nutjobs" who put the country at risk, while those wacky pro-lifers who bomb abortion clinics are just "angry and misunderstood." I'm surprised you didn't throw in a dig about the "liberal media." The great thing about this country is that they CAN protest, as it is THEIR RIGHT. You could've went down to the DNC convention last month with your little protest signs and did your thing too. I'm sure a lot of your people did.

And for every Ben Affleck, there's a Mike Ditka. The hot air blows both ways, my friend.

Anyway, I say all of that to say this: Everyone knows that there is no fundamental difference between the two parties anymore, seeing as both are underwritten by corporations. But in the contest of the who's the lesser evil, Kerry is clearly the winner, and the only shot the poor and disenfranchised have to be heard. But we have to put in the work, too.

 

[tomas101]

and also...lol...Conservatives really need to let go of this notion that the military was in awful condition after Clinton was in office. It wasn't. Even with budget cuts, we spent far more that any other nation in the world. I don't think Clinton cut ENOUGH. We could cut it in half, and still spend more than twice what any other country spends on their military. So this idea that the military was in piss poor condition is assinine.

As for this whole "hollywood liberals" shit, I have no doubt the majority of people in hollywood are socially liberal, but I seriously doubt most are economically liberal. Economic self interest will, for the most part, keep them from wanting higher taxes for the rich. I had a lot of respect for Ben Affleck when he said he didn't want a tax cut and would rather the money go to education.

I don't really understand rabid anti-Clintonism from Republicans. If Republicans actually believed that shit they spat about decreasing the deficit, kicking people off welfare, and reducing government spending then they should love Clinton. People like me have more of a reason to be pissed off about him than you do.

By the way, I can't believe ANYONE thinks taking funding away from the missle defense system was a bad idea. That shit never worked. It still doesn't work. It sucks.

 

[Stickboy]

Uh, Hem, Tomas, ever been in the military? Don't even begin to tell me what Clinton did to the military. Alot of soldiers, seamen, airmen, and marines are ON welfare.

I love how liberals are always "crazy nutjobs" who put the country at risk, while those wacky pro-lifers who bomb abortion clinics are just "angry and misunderstood." I'm surprised you didn't throw in a dig about the "liberal media."

I never said that, or implied that. ANYONE who resorts to murder, bombing, etc is a criminal in my book, regardless of what cause they support. I've also stated many times in this forum that people can protest all they want. It is their right, after all. I just question why protest in front of US military installations instead of Federal buildings. The military is not the decision maker, the government is.

As far as the media being liberal, that's a known. No need to attack it, or take a dig at it. Since it's evident that nobody reads or searches for info, and is satisfied by what is spit out by the papers and television, there's not much to say about it.

What's scarier is that you're willing to vote for a man who is proud of the fact that he doesn't read newspapers and relies on his staff to tell him the important stuff.

What, exactly, is your source here?

Right, because listening to his staff has worked SO well in the past. Speaking of, where are the WMDs again? We haven't found them, but that doesn't stop him from cracking wise about it during fundraisers

Let's look at this from a factual stand point:

1. How do we KNOW that Iraq had WMD's?

We sold them to them. They also manufactured their own.

2. Iraq was told to destroy them, after Gulf War I.

They could not account for the destruction of their WMD's. (Not all of them, anyway) Note: This was a requirement. Nevermind the endless sanctions by the BALL-LESS United Nations. Something had to be done. Bush decided enough was enough, and we went in.

 

[Rich46yo]

Heres what the men who served with him, and others who served on such boats, say about your hero Kerry. http://www.swiftvets.com/

"""""""Rich,
You know something, we have a lot in common. My brother, who was an Army Ranger for 12 years, put it like this, Bush should have just come out & said "Saddam tried to kill my daddy, so we're gonna take him out." I agree with your statement, and sympathise, beleive it or not, that we should have taken him out after Gulf War I, World opinion be damned. Finish it off while the iron was hot, then and there. """"'

No offense Pie but I suspect you wouldn't have. Be that as it may the attempted assassinations of his daddy was only one of many,many of Saddams transgressions. Its actually kinda funny that so many people have been mind screwed into actually believing we only went into Iraq due to WMDs. Typical Liberals! They dont want to go farther back in history ,then their required two weeks, cause they fear they might un-earth facts that will make them slither back into their holes.

I despised Klinton, but even I didnt think a sitting president should be removed over a blow job. We knew he was a slime ball before he was elected. If the American people decide to elect a man with no honor President then so be it. We are nothing like the Roman Empire and there are no comparisons to be made. We are not conquerors, we are democratic, and we are free.

""""""and also...lol...Conservatives really need to let go of this notion that the military was in awful condition after Clinton was in office. It wasn't. Even with budget cuts, we spent far more that any other nation in the world. I don't think Clinton cut ENOUGH. We could cut it in half, and still spend more than twice what any other country spends on their military. So this idea that the military was in piss poor condition is assinine."""""""""

Tom have you ever even been in the military? during Klintons time in office the US military went from the juggernaut it was at Gulf-L to a far smaller and less capable force, short on spare parts, short on combat capable units, and far less able to project power. It never fails really, A democrat gets elected and the military gets ran down. When Bush sr gave the reins over the US military was capable of fighting 2 majors wars and containing a 3rd bush war. After Klinton left we were able to fight one major war and maybe one bush war.

I wont blame Klinton for the reduction in nukes. START wasnt his fault, and the less ICBMs the world has the better off it will be. But he is responsible for the lowering of our combat capability. And he is responsible for not reacting more forcibly to Al Qaeda. Typical fucking lawyer! Sitting around the oval office with the rest of his fucking lawyers trying to decide if such an attack is "legal" or not. God hep us.

The problem with the Tomas's, and the Klintons, is you never really know when your going to be "under the threat of war". It takes years to rebuild military capability which is why you can never allow it to drain down.

"""""""""By the way, I can't believe ANYONE thinks taking funding away from the missile defense system was a bad idea. That shit never worked. It still doesn't work. It sucks.""""

And I bid goodby after this Einsteinian comment. People never thought nukes would actually work either, stealth airplanes neither, lasers, small caliber assault weapons, cannons, battleships, airplanes, bows and arrows. Other then working in tests the 4 or 5 missile interceptors we will shortly have fielded haven't worked much at all. I guess this thinker here hasnt kept up much with developements since Gulf-l and Patriot. Here http://www.globalsecurity.org/space/systems/bmd.htm look for yourself.

And what is the alternative to funding such systems? Either we nuke shitholes like North Korea or we live under the threat of dictators like him having a bad hair day and lobbing an ICBM at L.A. . Gee, well lets cut out missile defense and instead use the money for "more education". Brilliant,just brilliant.............take care............Rich

 

[Erik]

Maniclion....God Bless you, and I mean it, Glad you are my fellow American, but you are lacking experience. You have made grand statements based on information from sources you are comfortable, familiar with, and inclined to believe philosophical.
I hope that one day you are able to see the world and the things that you opine about first hand.
I humbly submit to you, from a basis of first hand experience that you are wrong.

 

[Rich46yo]

"""""""""""Maniclion....God Bless you, and I mean it, Glad you are my fellow American, but you are lacking experience"""""""""

Well maybe you can explain to the rest of us what in hell he's "Manlicon" is talking about?.........take care............Rich

 

[maniclion]

Maniclion....God Bless you, and I mean it, Glad you are my fellow American, but you are lacking experience. You have made grand statements based on information from sources you are comfortable, familiar with, and inclined to believe philosophical.
I hope that one day you are able to see the world and the things that you opine about first hand.
I humbly submit to you, from a basis of first hand experience that you are wrong.

Which grand statements does this address?

 

[Stickboy]

Probably all of them LOL

 

[tomas101]

Uh, Hem, Tomas, ever been in the military? Don't even begin to tell me what Clinton did to the military. Alot of soldiers, seamen, airmen, and marines are ON welfare.



I never said that, or implied that. ANYONE who resorts to murder, bombing, etc is a criminal in my book, regardless of what cause they support. I've also stated many times in this forum that people can protest all they want. It is their right, after all. I just question why protest in front of US military installations instead of Federal buildings. The military is not the decision maker, the government is.

As far as the media being liberal, that's a known. No need to attack it, or take a dig at it. Since it's evident that nobody reads or searches for info, and is satisfied by what is spit out by the papers and television, there's not much to say about it.



What, exactly, is your source here?



Let's look at this from a factual stand point:

1. How do we KNOW that Iraq had WMD's?

We sold them to them. They also manufactured their own.

2. Iraq was told to destroy them, after Gulf War I.

They could not account for the destruction of their WMD's. (Not all of them, anyway) Note: This was a requirement. Nevermind the endless sanctions by the BALL-LESS United Nations. Something had to be done. Bush decided enough was enough, and we went in.

at least you dont get your panties in a bunch when debating...no i havent been in the military, just reporting facts....most of everything wasnt directed at your so dont think it was, it was more in general discussion...bush has said many times that he doesnt read the newspaper...bill mahr made a big woop to do about it, its been on t.v., he's said it on t.v...

 

[Stickboy]

at least you dont get your panties in a bunch when debating...

Thanks.

As far as Bill Mahr, he's not exactly a unbiased view, but I'll take your word that Bush doesn't read the paper's.

Then again, if I were president, I doubt I would either. Afterall, you would hope the people briefing you on situations were being truthful and accurate. Not sure how you could assure that though.