I don't know SQUAT.

[DaMayor]

Lately, I've been having a bit of trouble with my (36yr. old) knees when doing leg-work...specifically hack squats. Long story short, I used to play soccer, and I think old injuries have come back to haunt me. (we used to play rough..American style)
Leg presses,extensions, HS curls,etc. don't seem to have any signifigant impact as compared to hack squats. I haven't gotten back into 'real' squats for fear of injury. The amount of weight I've been using for legs isn't anything earth shattering...usually do about 600-650 on 'presses', 120 for extensions, and only 90-100 (plates, not sure of rack weight) for squats. Am I doing too much too soon? or should I concentrate on extensions and presses, and avoid squats altogether?

 

[Fit Freak]

Focus on closed chain movements like squats, lunges, etc to develop stability in your knees. Personally I would avoid leg extensions and especially heavy leg presses (open chain exercises) and movements like that...they are usually the culprit of knee problems contrary to popular opinion. You are probably doing your squats incorrectly...try hiring a personal trainer to learn proppper form and start very light...work your way up...and again....AVOID leg presses.....much of this advice comes from first hand discussions as a personal trainer myself and through discussions I have had with sports medicine doctors regarding my own past knee problems.

Doing closed chain movements will be the best way to develop knee stability.

 

[DaMayor]

Hmmm. Interesting.
Will squats target the quads as well as/better thans extensions? Extensions just seem to have such as great effect...good burn, etc. Obviously, I haven't done a great deal of leg work in a while....at least not like the good old days of high school, and that was....well,nevermind.
Point is, I'm not doubting you, I just hate to give up the extensions. Or are you referring to a temporary omission from my routine? (i.e., until knees are strengthened)

 

[Scotty the Body]

I've always had a problem with Hack Squats bothering my knees, regular squats never gave me a problem.
Some people just arn't made for them.

As far as extensions go, they've always been a strong point for me, although if I don't warm my knees up, the first set hurts a little.

 

[Triple Threat]

Fit Freak gave you some good advice. If you feel that you must do extensions, do them at the end of your workout and use light weights, keeping the reps up in the 7-10 range. I think people like to do extensions because you get to sit down.

I must be built similar to Scotty. Hack squats always have hurt my knees (I don't do them anymore) but squats and leg presses are OK.

 

[Scotty the Body]

Originally posted by CaptainDeadlift
I must be built similar to Scotty. Hack squats always have hurt my knees (I don't do them anymore) but squats and leg presses are OK.

If deadlifts are one of your strong movments as your av name would suggest, then I'd say your probably right.

 

[Triple Threat]

Yes, deadlifts are by far my strongest movement (although shrugs are getting up there now).

 

[DaMayor]

Dead wha? Shrugs?
I've been avoiding regular squats because, well, I'm embarrassed about the amount of weight I use...er, don't use.
Office Jobs SUCK!!!

 

[Scotty the Body]

Don't be DaMayor, hell, there arn't many people that even do Squats period.
Actually, office jobs are the best to have for Bodybuilding, gives you plenty of recovery time

 

[P-funk]

DM, don't be embarrased by what you can or can't lift. Who cares what others think. The only thing that is important is that you are lifting enough weight for you. Don't compare your lifts to someone elses.

 

[Fit Freak]

The weight is not important...that's why too many people do leg presses...they think they look stronger by pushing around so many plates yet they can't squat their own bodyweight.

I'm not saying to eliminate extensions...what I'm saying is that they often "may" lead to problems. As mentionned if you think you need them...and they a good isolation movement...perform them towards the end of your workout...especially after your legs are warmed up. AND...avoid doing a lot of weight...keep the reps relatively high (12-15) and focus on slow/controlled movements.

Also keep in mind that although you may feel much more of a "burn" when doing extensions vs squats/lunges...the squats and lunges are still much more effective for strength and muscle gain. Guess it's sort of like comparing cable crossovers with the press when working chest...the crossovers and flyes burn but pressing movements are much more effective for muscle/strength gains.

When you squat don't try to lift too much weight...keep the weight light and really focus on propper form. As you perfect your form your strength will also increase.

 

[DaMayor]

Yeah Yeah Yeah. Group hug, etc. (<<<directed @ previous thread..not you FF.)
Reffice Jobs..you don't know this one. I in business for myself for five years...due to extinuating circumstances, I had to come crawling back to this place. Two years of promise promises promises. More like Torture than recovery time.

I must say, however, that I feel the need to integrate some real "working" exercises into my routine if I expect any results by, let's say 2005. (e.g., Deadlifts,T-bar rows,squats,shrugs..the down and dirty exercises.) Enough of what looks cool, I suppose.
Not that looking cool (in the gym) is what I'm after.

 

[Monolith]

Hmm...

Not to hyjack the thread, but...

FF, i've been doing 45 degree leg presses lately. Should i get off that and do squats again? I had trouble with my form, and figured id just do presses for a while. Are presses really just a waste of time compared to squats? I seem to get a decent burn out of it, but im doing high reps... 4x15.

 

[MeanCuts]

Originally posted by Monolith
Hmm...

Not to hyjack the thread, but...

FF, i've been doing 45 degree leg presses lately. Should i get off that and do squats again? I had trouble with my form, and figured id just do presses for a while. Are presses really just a waste of time compared to squats? I seem to get a decent burn out of it, but im doing high reps... 4x15.

Bro i think if there isn't an injury preventing you from doing squats you should be doing them.If you have knee or back problems that aren't that bad do hack squats or use the smith machine.Just my opinion

 

[Fit Freak]

Yup...lose the leg press and do SQUATS. While the leg press isn't a waste of time it isn't nearly as effective for overall development when compared to squats. If you need help with your form ask a trainer or someone that knows their stuff to give you a hand...most people are more than willing to help...at least they are around this end of town!

 

[Monolith]

haha, ok, ill do that. thx.

im gonna miss being able to push around a few hundred pounds on the leg press though

 

[DaMayor]

It is a psychological perk, ain't it? Although I noticed that when doing angled presses with any signifigant amount of weight, it often felt like I was going to break a couple of ribs when in the "compressed" position. Or maybe that was a love handle getting ready to blow.
So again I, reluctantly as usual, will change my routine for you people.....whom I have begun to trust ever so slightly..... Even Fit Freak.

 

[Fit Freak]

 

[Monolith]

bleh... im not looking forward to my next leg day. the last time i was doing squats, i was only using 2 plates on the smith machine.

although ive been doing high reps... maybe i could just cut back the reps and raise the weight...

like on the 45 press, i was doing 250lbs 4 sets of 15 reps. is that too high?

 

[Monolith]

bump.

should leg exercises be kept in the high rep range? like 15 reps/set?

 

[MeanCuts]

Originally posted by Monolith
bump.

should leg exercises be kept in the high rep range? like 15 reps/set?

Personally I keep them 8-10 reps/set just keep it heavy

 

[Fit Freak]

BTW...squats do not equal squats on the Smith machine...just for your info...but are better than the leg press.

Personally I try to keep the majority of my working sets in the 10-15 range for legs...just find a little higher reps works better. I'll do a couple sets with fewer reps but in doing so I understand I'm just doing some strength work...i.e. a set of 6 and 8 or something like that.

Higher reps doesn't mean less work though with legs...if you can do 8 you can probably get 12 or 13 reps...it's all about intensity and learning to push your legs to new limits.

 

[DaMayor]

Here we see the age old debate....Will higher reps with a 'manageable' amount of weight promote development more than fewer reps with a more challenging weight?
Just thought I'd throw a T-bone into the cage...

 

[MeanCuts]

Originally posted by DaMayor
Here we see the age old debate....Will higher reps with a 'manageable' amount of weight promote development more than fewer reps with a more challenging weight?
Just thought I'd throw a T-bone into the cage...

Hahaha seriously though think it depends on the individual as always.If your new to lifting it probably would be a good idea to try them both and find what works best for yourself

 

[DaMayor]

I agree.

 

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Fit Freak
BTW...squats do not equal squats on the Smith machine...just for your info...but are better than the leg press.

Personally I try to keep the majority of my working sets in the 10-15 range for legs...just find a little higher reps works better. I'll do a couple sets with fewer reps but in doing so I understand I'm just doing some strength work...i.e. a set of 6 and 8 or something like that.

Higher reps doesn't mean less work though with legs...if you can do 8 you can probably get 12 or 13 reps...it's all about intensity and learning to push your legs to new limits.

Eh? Why are squats on a smith machine worse than regular squats? Is it just like comparing a barbell preacher curl to a hammer machine curl? Or is there something else?

 

[MeanCuts]

Originally posted by Monolith
Eh? Why are squats on a smith machine worse than regular squats? Is it just like comparing a barbell preacher curl to a hammer machine curl? Or is there something else?

I think what he means is 405lbs on the smith machine doesn't equal 405lbs on a regular squat.You'll get more strength and size using regular squats that's my interpretation of his comment and also my opinion.

 

[Monolith]

ahhh...

well when im in the gym tomorrow ill have to bug one of the trainers to show me proper squat form... again...

 

[Fit Freak]

No...not what I meant...using the smith machine takes a lot of the stabilization muscles out of the picture since your relying again on a machine in a fixed range of motion. Free squats simply involve a greater amount of muscles....my comment actually had nothing to do with weight.

 

[MeanCuts]

Originally posted by Fit Freak
No...not what I meant...using the smith machine takes a lot of the stabilization muscles out of the picture since your relying again on a machine in a fixed range of motion. Free squats simply involve a greater amount of muscles....my comment actually had nothing to do with weight.

The weight is an example.405lbs does equal 405lbs regardless of how you lift it but because the smith machine basically requires no balance(stabilizers muscles) it doesn't require the same muscles and the more muscle you use the more muscle you'll gain.I was trying to skip the technical part of it.