I think my Prami is causing emotional issues

[OneWheyOrAnother]

Hey all.

I am on Day 19 of my cycle. Test Prop/Masteron/NPP

Been taking Prami for 10 days now, today is my 3rd day at 0.75mg
Been taking Letro for 12 days now at 2.5mg ED.

In the past few days I have been feeling strong emotions, like if I watch a sad movie, it might bring tears to my eyes. I am not somebody who EVER cries from emotion, and I just finished watching Inception (which is a kick ass movie) and it made me cry. And I am feeling all sorts of intensified emotions that I am not used to.

Has anyone else experienced these types of side effects from Prami or is it maybe something else?

I am thinking it could also be estrogen because my levels were elevated when I got my blood work done, but I was hoping after 12 days of letro my estrogen levels should be lower than they were 12 days ago when I didn't finish these weird emotions. The only thing that has really changed is upping my dose of Prami to 0.75mg.

I feel like a god damn woman! Can anybody chime in on this one for me?

Thanks!

 

[njc]

I can't speak for your exact sides but I do know that prami makes me feel like total ass. Flu-like sumptoms.

 

[Glycomann]

I'm finishing up a similar blast and using letro for E control. I am gyno prone. The letro does the trick for me without and D2 agonist like prami. Prami can have some difficult side effects. You may not even need it. Your letro is pretty high too. I use 0.5 mg ETD. Progestogenic gyno, which I am assuming you are concerned about, needs estrogen to occur so if you keep E in the low to mid normal range you should be OK without prami. Prami is a dopamine receptor agonist and dopamine receptors modulate emotion and behavior so your symptoms could be due to Prami. Are you on a high dose of it? AS the dose goes up the D3 and D4 activities become more pronounced and this is where sides present.

 

[CanadaGear]

Never used that stuff but it seems like a harsh drug. Are you sure you need it? Drop it, see if you feel better.

 

[ZECH]

Your letro dose is WAAAY too damn much

 

[OneWheyOrAnother]

Your letro dose is WAAAY too damn much

When I got my blood work done, my estrogen was at 80pmol/L

And heavyiron was telling me that 2.5mg of Letro would lower my estrogen around 46% - 62%

Still think my letro is too high ?? Just wondering

 

[XYZ]

Never used that stuff but it seems like a harsh drug. Are you sure you need it? Drop it, see if you feel better.

That's not true. Cabergoline has been linked to heart valve damage, do you think that's a better alternative? Or maybe bromo and all of it's sides?

You've never used it but it SEEMS like a harsh drug? How?

 

[XYZ]

Chronicelite -

You're supposed to ramp up the dose SLOWLY. Start at .10mg and up the dose by .10 - .15mg every 3-5 days. Jumping that high that quick might have something to do with it also.

The letro takes time to build up in your system also, give it some time, if and when your joints start to hurt then you'll know to cut it back.

Good luck.

 

[OneWheyOrAnother]

Chronicelite -

You're supposed to ramp up the dose SLOWLY. Start at .10mg and up the dose by .10 - .15mg every 3-5 days. Jumping that high that quick might have something to do with it also.

The letro takes time to build up in your system also, give it some time, if and when your joints start to hurt then you'll know to cut it back.

Good luck.

Yeah, you're right. I bumped it up 0.25mg every 4 days, now riding 0.75mg.
And I just woke up after sleeping for 5 hours with shortness of breath, anxiety and nausea. I didn't have any of these problems at 0.5mg ED, so maybe I should lower it back down for like 7 days and then try to increase it again.

Also, the study that heavyiron provided showed that Letro takes up to 60 days to reach stable plasma levels, but I am using it for gyno treatment so not sure what I should do about the dosage at this point.

Thanks for chiming in CT.

 

[XYZ]

Anytime you're going to go over .5mg ED it's best to split the dose into two. One in the AM and one in the late afternoon. Good luck!

 

[OneWheyOrAnother]

Anytime you're going to go over .5mg ED it's best to split the dose into two. One in the AM and one in the late afternoon. Good luck!

For myself, at the dosage of 0.75mg, I am doing 0.25mg in the morning and 0.5mg before bed. But for the past few days I have been waking up short of breath. However my brother's dumb b*tch of a girlfriend almost burned my house down and I inhaled a lot of smoke about 5-6 days ago so I thought that was the reason, but I only get this particular side after my nightly dose.

 

[CanadaGear]

That's not true. Cabergoline has been linked to heart valve damage, do you think that's a better alternative? Or maybe bromo and all of it's sides?

You've never used it but it SEEMS like a harsh drug? How?

What's not ture? Yes it seems lke a harsh drug because anything's that's used to treat Parkinson's and bipolar disorder is no fucking joke. Look at the side effects. Hallusinations, twitching, sedation, decreased appetite? This drug is not to fuck with. Why are you taking it? Because you think your progestore levels are high? How much of NPP are you taking? A gram a week? You're already shooting test and you're killing almost your entire estrogen production with letro. Your body doesn't need Pramipexole or dostinex or bromo. And that could be the reason why you're feeling like shit.

 

[XYZ]

What's not ture? Yes it seems lke a harsh drug because anything's that's used to treat Parkinson's and bipolar disorder is no fucking joke. Look at the side effects. Hallusinations, twitching, sedation, decreased appetite? This drug is not to fuck with. Why are you taking it? Because you think your progestore levels are high? How much of NPP are you taking? A gram a week? You're already shooting test and you're killing almost your entire estrogen production with letro. Your body doesn't need Pramipexole or dostinex or bromo. And that could be the reason why you're feeling like shit.

Again, you said SEEMS harsh, but you didn't even read the studies, nor did you see what the dosing was on the test subjects for the sides you mention. The sides you speak of are when dosing at 5mg ED and above, get the facts straight BEFORE posting.

I'm also not the original poster, I think you're trying to tell him this and not me?

 

[heavyiron]

Prami improves mood and is used as an antidepressent.

Usually emotions of sadness are tied to excessive E2 when modifying your hormones however blaming hormones may be premature.

 

[CanadaGear]

Again, you said SEEMS harsh, but you didn't even read the studies, nor did you see what the dosing was on the test subjects for the sides you mention. The sides you speak of are when dosing at 5mg ED and above, get the facts straight BEFORE posting.

I'm also not the original poster, I think you're trying to tell him this and not me?

Yes SEEMS god damn it, lol. Sometimes you have to rely on info provided by scientists to make conclusions about effects of certain drugs, do you understand that? Don't worry about my facts. I read the studies, have you? How do you know those studies are done at 5mg/ed? How do you know side effects don't differ at 2.5mg/ed? How do you know Prami is not a harsh drug? How do you know his mood swings aren't caused by it? How do you know he even needs it all? So please, you GET YOUR FACTS BEFORE POSTING. And yes I was addressing chronicelite questioning the use of Prami in his case. I replied to you becaue I didn't like the way you questioned my post.

 

[hackskii]

Your letro dose is WAAAY too damn much

When I got my blood work done, my estrogen was at 80pmol/L

And heavyiron was telling me that 2.5mg of Letro would lower my estrogen around 46% - 62%

Still think my letro is too high ?? Just wondering

It is way too much, driving estrogen down too far is not a good idea for lipids, and mood, along with libido issues.
Estrogen is very important for mood, essential actually.
I am a firm believer in estrogen support, but with that dose you can reverse gyno even on cycle.

I cant handle prami myself and .75 would be too much for me to handle.
I dont think you need it to be honest, inhibiting prolactin can put leydig cells at risk and compromise immune function.

 

[heavyiron]

Prami is actually a pretty awesome drug. It reduces the refractory period between male orgasms. Some guys report orgasms and they continue having sex with another orgasm again within minutes.

Prami also dumps a ton of HGH about 2 hours after administration. This is obviously very good for the goals of a bodybuilder. I have also never dreamed as vivid as when I was on Prami.

Prami is well studied in regards to improving mood which is no surprise since cocaine is a dopamine agonist. It does the similar things. Just costs more.

Additionally the doses we use are pretty low compared to other treatments so we have plenty of studies and many users to refer to when weighing the pros and cons of this medication.

I do think raising the dose too fast can cause sleep disturbances but mine were manageble when I did that.

 

[heavyiron]

It is way too much, driving estrogen down too far is not a good idea for lipids, and mood, along with libido issues.
Estrogen is very important for mood, essential actually.
I am a firm believer in estrogen support, but with that dose you can reverse gyno even on cycle.

His labs say otherwise. His E2 goes sky high on cycle. He definitely has high aromatase activity. He has used high doses of arimidex and still has high E2.

Maybe ask him to post his labs in regards to his AI doses. I think once you see the info you will be surprised.

 

[hackskii]

Nice post on the prami, I think one of the problems is the liquid stuff is super strong, a friend of mine got the pharma prami and didnt have the sides the liquid stuff had.

2.5mg letro a day for most men will crush libido and give some rather stiff joints, it just seems overkill to me from the guys I have talked to.

But excessive aromitization can be caused from excessive belly fat which is where most of the aromataze enzymes reside among other places, and some guys just have more aromatase activity than others.

I wasnt sure if he had his E2 taken while on cycle and showed it elivated.
But, if stiff joints, and libido become an issue, I would reduce dose.
Mast has a slight anti-estrogen effect as well, but the original poster didnt give the doses for the cycle so this may all play in a factor here.

Me personally I am not a big believer in taking a prolacting inhibitor with 19-nortestosterone cycles, after all nandrolone is a progestin, and with all the pulser and releaser HGH drugs out there available, prami would not be my first pic for HGH boosting.
GH isnt that expensive anyway anymore....lol

 

[heavyiron]

Nice post on the prami, I think one of the problems is the liquid stuff is super strong, a friend of mine got the pharma prami and didnt have the sides the liquid stuff had.

2.5mg letro a day for most men will crush libido and give some rather stiff joints, it just seems overkill to me from the guys I have talked to.

But excessive aromitization can be caused from excessive belly fat which is where most of the aromataze enzymes reside among other places, and some guys just have more aromatase activity than others.

I wasnt sure if he had his E2 taken while on cycle and showed it elivated.
But, if stiff joints, and libido become an issue, I would reduce dose.
Mast has a slight anti-estrogen effect as well, but the original poster didnt give the doses for the cycle so this may all play in a factor here.

Me personally I am not a big believer in taking a prolacting inhibitor with 19-nortestosterone cycles, after all nandrolone is a progestin, and with all the pulser and releaser HGH drugs out there available, prami would not be my first pic for HGH boosting.
GH isnt that expensive anyway anymore....lol

If memory serves he was on 2mg of adex per day on cycle and his E2 was still in the female range but maybe he could give the details since relying on my memory is inferior.

 

[hackskii]

If memory serves he was on 2mg of adex per day on cycle and his E2 was still in the female range but maybe he could give the details since relying on my memory is inferior.

Wow, that is crazy.......
Ok, now that makes sense as I have known guys to reverse gyno with only 1mg adex a day while on cycle.

Poor guy, does he have very high serum testosterone levels naturally?

Damn, no wonder he is gyno prone.
I am too but .5 adex fixes that on cycle for me.......

Wow, that sucks as estrogen is approx 200 times more supressive than testosterone.
Beings that testosterone (some) gets converted to estrogen and the only way the body has to lower estrogen is to lower testosterone, if that were not bad enough SHBG is elivated with estrogen and this binds to free test lowering free test.

Wow

 

[XYZ]

Yes SEEMS god damn it, lol. Sometimes you have to rely on info provided by scientists to make conclusions about effects of certain drugs, do you understand that? Don't worry about my facts. I read the studies, have you? How do you know those studies are done at 5mg/ed? How do you know side effects don't differ at 2.5mg/ed? How do you know Prami is not a harsh drug? How do you know his mood swings aren't caused by it? How do you know he even needs it all? So please, you GET YOUR FACTS BEFORE POSTING. And yes I was addressing chronicelite questioning the use of Prami in his case. I replied to you becaue I didn't like the way you questioned my post.

I didn't know I was talking with the toughest guy on the internet.....sorry.

You didn't read the studies because they clearly stated that 1-5mg ED was the dose used. You're incorrect.

I'm not worried about you and your facts, I am concerned that you're talking out of your ass when you clearly have never tried it, nor have you read the studies in which I am referring to. If you did read them you would know, but you didn't so you don't.

How do I know all that you stated, I don't but I read the studies and I am basing my comments off of that as well as this thread which has at least a hundered different users respond. How else would you suggest me base my opinions on this being the only information available?

Pramipexole and prolactin suppression: prevention vs. treatment dosing

I think that covers me from "getting my facts straight" as you said it. And you're facts come from...........oh that's right, they don't.

You didn't like the way I questioned your post? What are you 5? Grow up.

 

[hackskii]

WEll, to be fair Macro does pump prmai big time and I do feel he has something at stake with this one.
I like macro, but some of his wires do get crossed and although he is a very sharp guy and pushes prami alot and likes it himself, many dont including myself and others.

Taking it to help refractory recovery is one thing, but using it for the sake of bumping GH levels IMO is not the best approach at delaing with GH.
That would be like taking viagra when you dont have a partner....lol

 

[heavyiron]

That would be like taking viagra when you dont have a partner....lol

I have been doing it wrong?

 

[hackskii]

I have been doing it wrong?

lol

I laugh some times when guys say their libido is low and ask if they should take viagra.

Dont laugh, I do know some guys take low dose and go to the gym to take advantage of vasodilation.

 

[CanadaGear]

I didn't know I was talking with the toughest guy on the internet.....sorry.

You didn't read the studies because they clearly stated that 1-5mg ED was the dose used. You're incorrect.

I'm not worried about you and your facts, I am concerned that you're talking out of your ass when you clearly have never tried it, nor have you read the studies in which I am referring to. If you did read them you would know, but you didn't so you don't.

How do I know all that you stated, I don't but I read the studies and I am basing my comments off of that as well as this thread which has at least a hundered different users respond. How else would you suggest me base my opinions on this being the only information available?

Pramipexole and prolactin suppression: prevention vs. treatment dosing

I think that covers me from "getting my facts straight" as you said it. And you're facts come from...........oh that's right, they don't.

You didn't like the way I questioned your post? What are you 5? Grow up.

I didn't like your answer because it was ignorant and rude. I think you've got self esteem issues. How do you know what I stated is false? Just because you said "you're incorect" doesn't make you right. Where are the studies that you're using? How do they contradict what I said? Who published those studies? Have you yourself used Prami? I said Prami is a harsh drug. Do you disagree? Why? Why is it not a harsh drug? Please explain. I explained why I think its a harsh drug. And please don't tell me I'm talking out of my ass. I really don't. I think you're asshole but I don't think you're talking out of your ass. I actually think you do know some things about AS and some other drugs, you know.

 

[MDR]

I haven't found Prami to be harsh at all. The main side-effect is sleep related for me.

 

[XYZ]

I didn't like your answer because it was ignorant and rude. I think you've got self esteem issues. How do you know what I stated is false? Just because you said "you're incorect" doesn't make you right. Where are the studies that you're using? How do they contradict what I said? Who published those studies? Have you yourself used Prami? I said Prami is a harsh drug. Do you disagree? Why? Why is it not a harsh drug? Please explain. I explained why I think its a harsh drug. And please don't tell me I'm talking out of my ass. I really don't. I think you're asshole but I don't think you're talking out of your ass. I actually think you do know some things about AS and some other drugs, you know.

Ignorant and rude? If you say so.

Thanks for letting me know I have self esteem issues, I was unaware of that, I'm sure I'll sleep much better knowing that tonight. Thanks.

Go to www.pubmed.com and look at all of the studies there, also go through the link I posted as there are numerous studies posted throughout the 21 pages. That's where I got all of my information, along with using it numerous times with blood work results to back up my claims, but you've 1. Never tried it, 2. Never read the studies and 3. are going on here say? Is that about right?

You didn't explain why it's a harsh drug, you listed the sides which you've read about, but actually you didn't read about because you didn't read the studies.

You are talking out your ass. There is no other way to say it. How's you have no idea what you're talking about? Is that better?

Why are you going around calling me an asshole anyhow? I don't agree with much that you have to say but I'm not insulting you or name calling like a 5 year old, grow up. Is this how you react when you don't agree with someone? Maybe, just maybe you have the self esteem issues?

 

[heavyiron]

I haven't found Prami to be harsh at all. The main side-effect is sleep related for me.

Same here.

 

[OneWheyOrAnother]

Wow I feel like I have begun some sort of intense debate and feel responsible.
Can't we all just get along?

thank you all for your great contributions !

2.5mg letro a day for most men will crush libido and give some rather stiff joints, it just seems overkill to me from the guys I have talked to.

True, but not everybody is identical. My asshole of a friend has done as many cycles as me, and gets great gains off of an Anavar only cycle at 60mg ED.
I have to add 2 other compounds in order to get the same gains as him, and my diet is 10 times better than his. He even drinks on cycle....

If memory serves he was on 2mg of adex per day on cycle and his E2 was still in the female range but maybe he could give the details since relying on my memory is inferior.

Yeah I was on 2mg of Adex per day while on cycle and my lump was actually STILL GROWING.

Currently (against heavyiron's recommendation) I am actually taking Letro at 2.5mg ED and Aromasin at 25mg ED because I needed to overlap while adding in the Letro, and now have been overlapping 13 days.

I am not having any libido issues, my joints are fine (might be the NPP ?) and my gyno is still somewhat fluctuating but for the most part is probably down about 15% - 20% in size which may be just a reduction in inflammation and not tissue reduction.

Some time next week I am going to get my E2 checked again to see what is going on with my levels.

Since I heard Masteron can occupy receptor sites, could it be cause a high estrogen reading ?

When I say that I am gyno prone, I mean that if I eat a big mac and a milkshake, the next day I notice an increase in size and soreness while NOT on cycle.

And for those that are curious, my cycle dosage is as follows;

Test Prop @ 100mg ED (700mg EW)
Masteron Prop @ 75mg ED (525mg EW)
NPP @ 75mg ED (525mg EW)

I hope I addressed everybody who had questions, and thanks again.