^ The very reason you should leave the Republicrat party and join the Libertarian party
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If the Election were tomorrow?
- Thread starter Arnold
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Monolith said:
The middle class has been shrinking since the early 1970s.
And still continues to shrink today.
Sanfu ... no-one is jacking with you on that post of yours. Hmmmm ... wonder why?
woohoo, now 25-24! 
Unfortunately popular vote means relatively nothing. There was a great SNL sketch where Al Gore kept mentioning that he won the popular vote, but lost the election.
Snafu's graph needs to be updated to include "$10 million: Paid to I Are Baboon so he can live comfortably the rest of his life."
Here are some links to polling organizations that are conducting frequent polls in all 50 states. If polling is done correctly, it is a science. In a few states, a candidate will have a 3% lead, but the margin of error is 2.5-3% and the undecideds are at say, 6%.
The electoral college invalidates any of the "nationwide polls" that say Bush is up by 4 points, or Kerry is up by 7, for example. The battlgrounds states - and there are many - will likely go down to the wire. International ogranizations will be observing some polling centers. With electronic vote counting machines there has been allegations of fraud in certain Congressional districts during the last round of Congressional elections. We will all be hearing about American election fraud - yes, American election fraud in the USA, in the next 6 months to 3 years.
Here are some polling links, broken down, by each state. Some will be preferred by some of you more than others.
http://www.surveyusa.com/currentelectionpolls.html
http://www.gallup.com/election2004/showdown/
This link below used the red and blue maps and has the poll results and the electoral college count.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/Electoral College Table.htm
The electoral college invalidates any of the "nationwide polls" that say Bush is up by 4 points, or Kerry is up by 7, for example. The battlgrounds states - and there are many - will likely go down to the wire. International ogranizations will be observing some polling centers. With electronic vote counting machines there has been allegations of fraud in certain Congressional districts during the last round of Congressional elections. We will all be hearing about American election fraud - yes, American election fraud in the USA, in the next 6 months to 3 years.
Here are some polling links, broken down, by each state. Some will be preferred by some of you more than others.
http://www.surveyusa.com/currentelectionpolls.html
http://www.gallup.com/election2004/showdown/
This link below used the red and blue maps and has the poll results and the electoral college count.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/Electoral College Table.htm
If we are inviting international poll observers for the purpose of protecting the validity of our election process, then we are rapidly degenerating into a nation that is hardly more honorable than a struggling Third World country attempting to embrace democracy for the first time. Hopefully this isn't true - if it is, it should be a national embarassment.
^ KBM,
Sadly, there will be international monitors in some polling places. Both Bush and Kerry have a team of lawyers that are focusing on the potential problems. Electronic vote machine leave no paper trail. The corporation that makes them refuses to let anyone inspect them.
We'll be hearing more soon. But we should note, that this isn't the first time that American elections have involved Fraud.
in the 1960 Presidential election there was fraud in the state of Illinois - this gave Kennedy the election. Nixon claimed several time in private that the election was "stolen" from him. He didn't pursue an investigation because he felt it would make him like like a sore loser, and Nixon still had a political career ahead of him.
In 1984 many dead people "voted for Mondale" in his home state of Minnesota, which he one (and it was the only one). Tim Rollins, one of Reagan's campaign managers decided not to pursue it, because he thought it would make the Reagan look "greedy."
Lyndon B. Johnson won his Congressional election in Texas thanks to the help of many dead voters who just happened to show up at the polls and cast their vote for him.
Such is politics, ay?
Sadly, there will be international monitors in some polling places. Both Bush and Kerry have a team of lawyers that are focusing on the potential problems. Electronic vote machine leave no paper trail. The corporation that makes them refuses to let anyone inspect them.
We'll be hearing more soon. But we should note, that this isn't the first time that American elections have involved Fraud.
in the 1960 Presidential election there was fraud in the state of Illinois - this gave Kennedy the election. Nixon claimed several time in private that the election was "stolen" from him. He didn't pursue an investigation because he felt it would make him like like a sore loser, and Nixon still had a political career ahead of him.
In 1984 many dead people "voted for Mondale" in his home state of Minnesota, which he one (and it was the only one). Tim Rollins, one of Reagan's campaign managers decided not to pursue it, because he thought it would make the Reagan look "greedy."
Lyndon B. Johnson won his Congressional election in Texas thanks to the help of many dead voters who just happened to show up at the polls and cast their vote for him.
Such is politics, ay?
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bush drives a truck lives on a ranch
kerry is an out of touch billionaire forbes with a "man-servant"
kerry is an out of touch billionaire forbes with a "man-servant"
Maybe Kerry was lying. But then again he may have been there. He may have been there and not necesarrily known he was even in Cambodia.
American fought a 10 year war in Laos against the 'Viet Minh' (Vietnamese Communists" and the Pratet Loas (Laotion Communists)
Ten years of american war. Laos is the most bombed country in the history of the world. More than all of the countries of WWII, and more than Vietnam. And Vietnam had more tonnage of bombs dropped on it than the other WWII nations, combined.
If Kerry is bull of B.S. it wouldn' surprise me. If he was in Cambodia - several times 'unfocially' - it wouldn't surprise.
Bush is just as full of sh*t. Even moreso.....
Don't be too selective on who to focus on when it comes to politician lying.
American fought a 10 year war in Laos against the 'Viet Minh' (Vietnamese Communists" and the Pratet Loas (Laotion Communists)
Ten years of american war. Laos is the most bombed country in the history of the world. More than all of the countries of WWII, and more than Vietnam. And Vietnam had more tonnage of bombs dropped on it than the other WWII nations, combined.
If Kerry is bull of B.S. it wouldn' surprise me. If he was in Cambodia - several times 'unfocially' - it wouldn't surprise.
Bush is just as full of sh*t. Even moreso.....
Don't be too selective on who to focus on when it comes to politician lying.
The minute their lips move you know they're b.s'n ya!
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"""""""""Ten years of american war. Laos is the most bombed country in the history of the world. More than all of the countries of WWII, and more than Vietnam. And Vietnam had more tonnage of bombs dropped on it than the other WWII nations, combined.""""""""""
The Ho Chi Minh trail ran thru Laos. What else were we to do? Allow the commies to resupply the enemy and continue to kill our troops. To bad we didnt incinerate the place. I place more importance on the life of ONE of our boys then any million commie heathens. While the flagburners like to use these statistics about Vietnam they dont tell the whole story. True the monstrous B-52 was capable of delivering unheard of tonnage on an enemy, MOST of these strikes were against jungle supply lines far away from any population centers. In fact in 1968 alone over 150,000 NVA soldiers infiltrated the south via the HCM trail. Until late in the war, when the North had violated cease fire agreements. We were actually much more humane with our bombing during Vietnam then we were during WW-ll . In WW-ll we, and anyone else, didnt hesitate to anhiliate entire cities,regions,countries, with arial bombing.
Of course the revisionists, and assorted long-hairs, like to portray Vietnam as something out of an Oliver Stone movie. Kerry did in the '70's also. As to "being in Cambodia"? Of all his lies this one is the stinkiest. BTW he made this claim to a senate panel, in front of cameras".........."""""In 1986, Kerry told the Senate:
"I remember Christmas of 1968 sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by the Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and have the president of the United States telling the American people that I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia. I have that memory which is seared ??? seared ??? in me."""""""""
Now if a memory is "seared into you" then you'd think hed be damned sure he was actually "in Cambodia". The problem with that is not only wasnt he in Cambodia, many of his shipmates have it "seared into their memories" that they were never IN Cambodia. At the time American involvement in supposedly neutral Cambodia was an important issue. I say "supposedly" because NVA and Vietcong used the place quite regularly to stage,run into,resupply, and launch attacks from. And I guess each time they ran across the border they laughed their asses off at the dumb Americans who stopped the chase. The WW-ll analogy would be the Nazis slipping into Switzerland to re-arm,rest, get some pussy, and then slip back into Germany/France to attack our boys.
By saying he actually WAS in Cambodia Kerry was able to position himself at the head of VVAW and along with Jane Fonda be at the pinnacle of the anti-war movement. Here read more about the Fonda/Kerry connection........
"""""""""""For the story behind the story...
Click Here
Click Here
Click Here
Click Here
Saturday, Feb. 14, 2004 12:58 p.m. EST
Kerry Teamed Up With Fonda's 'F*** the Army' Cast
When Democratic presidential front-runner John Kerry teamed up with 'Hanoi' Jane Fonda and actor Donald Sutherland for a September 1970 anti-Vietnam War protest at Valley Forge, Pa., he was joining the same cast that Fonda had assembled earlier that year for her "F*** the Army" tour ??? a kind of reverse USO tour designed to undermine the morale of U.S. soldiers fighting in the jungles of Southeast Asia.
On Friday, Kerry suggested that he had no idea how radical Fonda would eventually become, telling radio host Don Imus that he thought her decision to turn against her country by traveling to Hanoi 18 months after Valley Forge was "terrible."
But by the time Kerry agreed to follow the anti-American actress and Sutherland onto the same stage 34 years ago, Fonda's anti-military road show was already well known to both soldiers stationed in Vietnam and those who had returned home.
In "Winter Soldier: An Oral History of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War," author Richard Stacewicz notes that when Fonda and Kerry addressed the Valley Forge rally ??? as depicted in the now infamous photo published by NewsMax on Monday ??? Fonda's military-bashing credentials were already well-established.
"Fonda was becoming very well known at that point for her support of the GI movement. She and Donald Sutherland had been going around to GI bases for a while with the FTA show ["F *** the Army," a spoof of USO shows that was performed just outside bases]," writes Stacewicz.
Fonda's role as a kind of reverse Bob Hope is confirmed in the Vietnam veterans history "Stolen Valor," by B.G. Burkett and Glenna Whitley.
"Fonda was involved in an organization called F.T.A., which we all knew stood for 'F--k the Army,'" Burkett, a Vietnam veteran himself, reports.
Though both Fonda and Kerry are now both claiming their contact was minimal at Valley Forge and afterward, in fact, while the Massachusetts Democrat served as the VVAW's leading spokesman under the title "National Coordinator," Fonda was named the group's "Honorary National Coordinator," according to two histories of the VVAW, Andrew Hunt's "The Turning" and Gerald Nicosia's "Home to War."
With her celebrity drawing power, Fonda became Kerry's leading fund-raiser at the VVAW, traveling the country to tout the group's mission to expose so-called U.S. war crimes in Vietnam.
The effort culminated in the next Kerry-Fonda collaboration, the "Winter Soldier Investigation," which she financed and where Kerry and other members of the VVAW tried to elicit the most gruesome testimony possible from combat veterans. More than a few Winter Soldier witnesses later turned out to be complete impostors.
Al Hubbard, VVAW's executive secretary, was also one of the principal organizers of the Winter Soldier event. His supposed combat heroism had earned him mythical status within the organization, writes author Hunt. He and Kerry would later go on to appear side-by side on NBC's "Meet the Press" to denounce the war.
But as "Stolen Valor" author Burkett explained to the Wall Street Journal last month, his research showed that Hubbard had grossly inflated his combat credentials.
"Hubbard claimed to be an Air Force pilot who was wounded in Vietnam. Truth: Hubbard was never a pilot, never an officer, never wounded and never assigned to Vietnam," said Burkett.
Hubbard is also featured prominently in Kerry's 1971 book about the group's April 1971 Washington, D.C., protest, "The New Soldier," where he and Kerry appear in a photo together on the same stage as Ramsey Clark.
In several calls last week to the Kerry campaign, NewsMax.com requested financial records from the Winter Soldier Investigation, including Kerry's tax returns from 1970 and expense records for the event, to determine to what extent ??? if any ??? he may have personally benefited from Fonda's largesse.
The calls have not been returned"""""""""""""""""
The Ho Chi Minh trail ran thru Laos. What else were we to do? Allow the commies to resupply the enemy and continue to kill our troops. To bad we didnt incinerate the place. I place more importance on the life of ONE of our boys then any million commie heathens. While the flagburners like to use these statistics about Vietnam they dont tell the whole story. True the monstrous B-52 was capable of delivering unheard of tonnage on an enemy, MOST of these strikes were against jungle supply lines far away from any population centers. In fact in 1968 alone over 150,000 NVA soldiers infiltrated the south via the HCM trail. Until late in the war, when the North had violated cease fire agreements. We were actually much more humane with our bombing during Vietnam then we were during WW-ll . In WW-ll we, and anyone else, didnt hesitate to anhiliate entire cities,regions,countries, with arial bombing.
Of course the revisionists, and assorted long-hairs, like to portray Vietnam as something out of an Oliver Stone movie. Kerry did in the '70's also. As to "being in Cambodia"? Of all his lies this one is the stinkiest. BTW he made this claim to a senate panel, in front of cameras".........."""""In 1986, Kerry told the Senate:
"I remember Christmas of 1968 sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by the Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and have the president of the United States telling the American people that I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia. I have that memory which is seared ??? seared ??? in me."""""""""
Now if a memory is "seared into you" then you'd think hed be damned sure he was actually "in Cambodia". The problem with that is not only wasnt he in Cambodia, many of his shipmates have it "seared into their memories" that they were never IN Cambodia. At the time American involvement in supposedly neutral Cambodia was an important issue. I say "supposedly" because NVA and Vietcong used the place quite regularly to stage,run into,resupply, and launch attacks from. And I guess each time they ran across the border they laughed their asses off at the dumb Americans who stopped the chase. The WW-ll analogy would be the Nazis slipping into Switzerland to re-arm,rest, get some pussy, and then slip back into Germany/France to attack our boys.
By saying he actually WAS in Cambodia Kerry was able to position himself at the head of VVAW and along with Jane Fonda be at the pinnacle of the anti-war movement. Here read more about the Fonda/Kerry connection........
"""""""""""For the story behind the story...
Click Here
Click Here
Click Here
Click Here
Saturday, Feb. 14, 2004 12:58 p.m. EST
Kerry Teamed Up With Fonda's 'F*** the Army' Cast
When Democratic presidential front-runner John Kerry teamed up with 'Hanoi' Jane Fonda and actor Donald Sutherland for a September 1970 anti-Vietnam War protest at Valley Forge, Pa., he was joining the same cast that Fonda had assembled earlier that year for her "F*** the Army" tour ??? a kind of reverse USO tour designed to undermine the morale of U.S. soldiers fighting in the jungles of Southeast Asia.
On Friday, Kerry suggested that he had no idea how radical Fonda would eventually become, telling radio host Don Imus that he thought her decision to turn against her country by traveling to Hanoi 18 months after Valley Forge was "terrible."
But by the time Kerry agreed to follow the anti-American actress and Sutherland onto the same stage 34 years ago, Fonda's anti-military road show was already well known to both soldiers stationed in Vietnam and those who had returned home.
In "Winter Soldier: An Oral History of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War," author Richard Stacewicz notes that when Fonda and Kerry addressed the Valley Forge rally ??? as depicted in the now infamous photo published by NewsMax on Monday ??? Fonda's military-bashing credentials were already well-established.
"Fonda was becoming very well known at that point for her support of the GI movement. She and Donald Sutherland had been going around to GI bases for a while with the FTA show ["F *** the Army," a spoof of USO shows that was performed just outside bases]," writes Stacewicz.
Fonda's role as a kind of reverse Bob Hope is confirmed in the Vietnam veterans history "Stolen Valor," by B.G. Burkett and Glenna Whitley.
"Fonda was involved in an organization called F.T.A., which we all knew stood for 'F--k the Army,'" Burkett, a Vietnam veteran himself, reports.
Though both Fonda and Kerry are now both claiming their contact was minimal at Valley Forge and afterward, in fact, while the Massachusetts Democrat served as the VVAW's leading spokesman under the title "National Coordinator," Fonda was named the group's "Honorary National Coordinator," according to two histories of the VVAW, Andrew Hunt's "The Turning" and Gerald Nicosia's "Home to War."
With her celebrity drawing power, Fonda became Kerry's leading fund-raiser at the VVAW, traveling the country to tout the group's mission to expose so-called U.S. war crimes in Vietnam.
The effort culminated in the next Kerry-Fonda collaboration, the "Winter Soldier Investigation," which she financed and where Kerry and other members of the VVAW tried to elicit the most gruesome testimony possible from combat veterans. More than a few Winter Soldier witnesses later turned out to be complete impostors.
Al Hubbard, VVAW's executive secretary, was also one of the principal organizers of the Winter Soldier event. His supposed combat heroism had earned him mythical status within the organization, writes author Hunt. He and Kerry would later go on to appear side-by side on NBC's "Meet the Press" to denounce the war.
But as "Stolen Valor" author Burkett explained to the Wall Street Journal last month, his research showed that Hubbard had grossly inflated his combat credentials.
"Hubbard claimed to be an Air Force pilot who was wounded in Vietnam. Truth: Hubbard was never a pilot, never an officer, never wounded and never assigned to Vietnam," said Burkett.
Hubbard is also featured prominently in Kerry's 1971 book about the group's April 1971 Washington, D.C., protest, "The New Soldier," where he and Kerry appear in a photo together on the same stage as Ramsey Clark.
In several calls last week to the Kerry campaign, NewsMax.com requested financial records from the Winter Soldier Investigation, including Kerry's tax returns from 1970 and expense records for the event, to determine to what extent ??? if any ??? he may have personally benefited from Fonda's largesse.
The calls have not been returned"""""""""""""""""
Re-do your links Rich they didn't work this time.
Rich46yo said:
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""""""""The Ho Chi Minh trail running through Laos was NOT the reason that most of the bombing was conducted.""""""""""
Gee, I guess all the thousands of commis soldiers who had invaded the place were also targets eh? Ya Think? Or do you think we bombed it just so the place could make the Guiness book of world records as "most bombed".
"""""""Laos? Why incinerate Laos? """"""""
Incinerate the enemy, his economy, military targets, political leaders, blockade their ports....ect Thats the general Idea of getting into a war, to win it! Of course when Hanoi Jane, and Hanoi John, were pushing for America to accept a UN peace aggreement, that basically gave the commies the victory they wanted, these same communists were peeling the fingernails off our POWs and beating them daily with canes.
"""""""So do I. I hate Communists, but the U.S. Air force killing 100,000 Cambodian civilians didn't do much good, did it? """"""
Who gave you that figure? The communists? Or maybe Jane Fonda? We killed 110,000 japanese in the firebombing of Tokyo, more then that of Germans in Dresdon. Civilians die in war, the commies massacred many more then that during, and after, their takeover of Laos. I agree those people suffered horribly, and civilian casualties should be avoided if possable. But it is war! And its not pretty. We never targted those civilians just like we never targted Iraqi civilians. But we cant make bombs and bullets that only kill enemy soldiers.
War itself is an atrocity. It always has been and always will be. Stalin killed millions of his own people by purposely starving them, Hitler killed millions in his mad plan for eradicating undesireables, Saddam killed hundreds of thousands of his own people with his madness. Free people must be prepared to do what we have to do to end tyrrany in this world. In an age of WMDs we must stop these tyrants now!!!
Snafu Ive seen more then my share of death and inhumanity in my lifetime. Its all madness, its all terrible, there is no sense to such wanton disregard for human life. But we must stand now against tyrrany ; We must force democratic principles in these dictatorships and terrorist supporting states. With diplomacy if possable. With force if necessary!
The action in Laos was part of a larger action against North Vietnam. History has proven the policy of containment against communism was sound. Those boys of ours who served in S/E Asia, those who were maimed, and those killed, were heros. And their lives, their service, and their deaths meant something.
And a scamming,malingering, self promoting, bullshit artist like John Kerry is an insult to them..............take care...................Rich
Gee, I guess all the thousands of commis soldiers who had invaded the place were also targets eh? Ya Think? Or do you think we bombed it just so the place could make the Guiness book of world records as "most bombed".
"""""""Laos? Why incinerate Laos? """"""""
Incinerate the enemy, his economy, military targets, political leaders, blockade their ports....ect Thats the general Idea of getting into a war, to win it! Of course when Hanoi Jane, and Hanoi John, were pushing for America to accept a UN peace aggreement, that basically gave the commies the victory they wanted, these same communists were peeling the fingernails off our POWs and beating them daily with canes.
"""""""So do I. I hate Communists, but the U.S. Air force killing 100,000 Cambodian civilians didn't do much good, did it? """"""
Who gave you that figure? The communists? Or maybe Jane Fonda? We killed 110,000 japanese in the firebombing of Tokyo, more then that of Germans in Dresdon. Civilians die in war, the commies massacred many more then that during, and after, their takeover of Laos. I agree those people suffered horribly, and civilian casualties should be avoided if possable. But it is war! And its not pretty. We never targted those civilians just like we never targted Iraqi civilians. But we cant make bombs and bullets that only kill enemy soldiers.
War itself is an atrocity. It always has been and always will be. Stalin killed millions of his own people by purposely starving them, Hitler killed millions in his mad plan for eradicating undesireables, Saddam killed hundreds of thousands of his own people with his madness. Free people must be prepared to do what we have to do to end tyrrany in this world. In an age of WMDs we must stop these tyrants now!!!
Snafu Ive seen more then my share of death and inhumanity in my lifetime. Its all madness, its all terrible, there is no sense to such wanton disregard for human life. But we must stand now against tyrrany ; We must force democratic principles in these dictatorships and terrorist supporting states. With diplomacy if possable. With force if necessary!
The action in Laos was part of a larger action against North Vietnam. History has proven the policy of containment against communism was sound. Those boys of ours who served in S/E Asia, those who were maimed, and those killed, were heros. And their lives, their service, and their deaths meant something.
And a scamming,malingering, self promoting, bullshit artist like John Kerry is an insult to them..............take care...................Rich
I hate communism, and I hate communists also. The Cambodian figure was from the Pentagon. Do I care? Not really. Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge killed more with tire irons. If someone is communist, I think they should be killed. But in times of war innocents suffer.
The ALCU is now a waste of time, ran by people who are trying to get richer off of ethnic hate. Is Kerry endorsed by the ACLU?
What do ya say we all just vote for Stickboy as a write in ...
What do ya say we all just vote for Stickboy as a write in ...
Stickboy as Prez, Dale as Vice Prez, and Rich as our Iraqi Ambassador. Prince can be our Drug Czar and team up with Nikegurl as the National Health Advisor. Snafu can replace Alan Greenspan and get our economy rolling.
as a conservative there's no question... I'm voting for Bush.
I guess I'm one of the few who actually like him.
I haven't seen one thing about Kerry that I agree with... abortion, stem cells, gay marriage... in general, I don't like him. he seems fake.
just MHO.
I guess I'm one of the few who actually like him.
I haven't seen one thing about Kerry that I agree with... abortion, stem cells, gay marriage... in general, I don't like him. he seems fake.
just MHO.
Voted for him twice for Gov & once for Prez. Do not like Kerry much as he has no stance on issues that I have been able to align myself with. I'm a pro-gun pro-life pro-state's rights pro-death sentance kinda guy. I am sooooo unhappy with what Bush has done that I must vote against him this time around ... not FOR Kerry but against Bush. I hate that!busyLivin said:as a conservative there's no question... I'm voting for Bush.
I guess I'm one of the few who actually like him.
I haven't seen one thing about Kerry that I agree with... abortion, stem cells, gay marriage... in general, I don't like him. he seems fake.
just MHO.
