Knees and Squats

[ZONE]

OK here is goes.

When I do squats my knees snap crackle and Pop but only when I go below Parallel.. if I go to or a little above parallel there is no snap crackle and Pop... Now my knees don't hurt but it just sounds real bad.. I'm just worried about the long haul.. I'd rather have thinner legs and good knees at 50 then bigger legs and bad knees. What does everyone think.. is the noise significant if it doesn't hurt?

Thanks,


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Thoughts are more powerful then Matter

 

[Charger]

I don't know how od you are but I am 38 and if I had to give up exercises just because I cracked and poped I couldn't even do sit ups.
I let pain tell me what not to do and even then it depends on what kind of pain it is.

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Can't never did nothin,(Dedicated to my father)

 

[new1shmoo]

My knees have cracked as far back as I can remember when I was a little kid. I am 35 now and my knees have never gave me a problem. Like Charger said if your not feeling any pain than I think you have nothing to worry about.

 

[I Are Baboon]

If the noise is painless, I wouldn't worry about it. One of my ankles pops with every step I take (totally painless, just annoying). I asked my doctor about it and he said it's most likely liquid and air moving in and out of the joint. He said it is nothing to worry about and that it is natural. Some people "pop" more than others.

Zone, nice pics BTW.

 

[Scotty the Body]

I agree with the others, as long as you have no pain with the noise, don't worry about it.
I notice mine pop and crack a bit more with a wider stance than a shoulder width stance. Probably because its not a straight movement for the knee.

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Just another day in the gutter

 

[nejar462]

If theres no pain, it means that the carbon dioxide bubbles or something like that in your blood is poppin, so its basically nothing bad at all

 

[Mr.Xtreme]

lol dieses ist eine kühle Eigenschaft
lol dieses ist eine kühle Eigenschaft

Sorry I was just playing with the translation feature lol

oh by the way <FONT size="10">SUCK IT UP</FONT s>

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Don't ever look behind at the things you have don't. Always look forward.

 

[alphonsus]

When I bench it pops too. Isn't it the calcium between your bones? Like when you crack your finer and it makes that noise.

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The best place to meet girls are at family reunions.

 

[Maki Riddington]

It could be whats called "crepitus", it could be a sign of future pain that may be on it's way.


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Exercise, my drug of choice

 

[Arnold]

There is no need to go below parallel, all you are really working past that point his your glutes.

So, to stress quad development, and minimize ass size, and reduce your chance of collateral damage, don't squat past parallel!

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Just because the majority believes it, does not make it true!

 

[MtnBikerChk]

I have always had knee problems/pain. (They pop when I'm driving and I haven't moved my legs in 20 minutes or so) They don't hurt now but they pop all the time. I don't really know what that means, but I would be careful. You could always go see an orthopedic doc.

GOOD LUCK.

<FONT COLOR="#000002" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[Edited 1 time by MtnBikerChick on 07-14-2001 at 07:26 PM]</font>

 

[cytrixxx]

i wouldn't worry about the popping noise, like the others said. however i would suggest never to go past parallel, since that's bad for the knees in general in the long run, whether it pops or not! i know it probably will shortchange your muscle building a little, but me personally also rather have a little smaller quads than bad knees later.

 

[Maki Riddington]

Oh spare me the bullshiat!
Squatting below parallel is not dangerous.
How many times have I heard this!

No dierct flame at Cytrixxx.

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Exercise, my drug of choice

 

[TheSupremeBeing]

Actually Prince and cytixxx, NOT squatting below parellel is worse for the knees and other injury promoting things than stopping at parellel for a number of reasons:

1. First of all, by not squatting the full range of motion, you don't maintain proper lumbosacral bodymechanics. This sets you up for back pain.

2. Muscle imbalances. If you can't squat past 90 degrees of knee bend without the heels raising or the body bending excessively forward at the waist, but can squat all the way to the floor while holding onto something, you have some muscle imbalances in regard to the pelvis/lumbosacral region (iliopsoas, external hip rotators, lower back. Additionally, since the hip joint is considered the "steering mechanism for the leg" improper pelvis, hip, and lumbosacral mechanics could lead to knee and/or ankle problems.

3. Regular performance of the full squat will help you in your lumbosacral/pelvic flexibility, which may prevent injury or muscle imbalances long before they become chronic.

4. Parallel squats also may be potentially damaging to the knee joint. The original data on full squats causing ligament laxity was obtained in an uncontrolled manner. Recent attempts to replicate these studies haven't shown any increased laxity or knee pain/dysfunction from doing full squats as opposed to parallel squats.

5. When the knee joint is at 90 degrees this is actually it's most unstable position, and if you were trying to assess the integrity of the cruciate ligaments, you'd want the least amount of interference from other structures as possible. Therefore, you can imagine how much force is on the knee ligaments when you reverse the squat movement at 90 degrees-the most unstable point-reversing the momentum and accelerating in the exact opposite direction. Couple this with the fact that most, if not everyone, are capable of squatting considerably more weight to the parallel position than the full squat position, and you've set your body up for muscular imbalances...and we all know what muscle imblances lead to - injury.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

<FONT COLOR="#000002" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[Edited 1 time by TheSupremeBeing on 07-14-2001 at 08:55 PM]</font>

 

[Twinklebell]

knees are pretty weak link, don t know exactly why...but at one point my started hurting pretty much
don t know why because...I did two things that could have caused it.....jogged on the sidewalk, and tried freew squats (usually I do smith squats)...perhaps my form wasn t good
I dropped freew squats, eased jogging and pain went away....

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New kid on the board

 

[Arnold]

Okay, Maki and Supreme.

You guys keep on squatting below parallel and then come back and talk to me in about ten years!


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Just because the majority believes it, does not make it true!

 

[TheSupremeBeing]

Funny you say that since Olympic lifters who perform rock-bottom squats for over 20 years have been shown to have the healthiest and strongest knees.

Who woulda thunk it?



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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

 

[Arnold]

Okay, listen asshole:

The only real benefit you're getting with a deep squat is a bigger ass. I'm not saying that you will get injured or have knee damage, but it's not worth the risk. The potential to injur the menisci, cruciate and collateral ligaments increases with the deep squat. Therefore I don't recommend them.
But I guess we should all listen to your infinite wisdom and 1 year of weight training experience.


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Just because the majority believes it, does not make it true!

 

[TheSupremeBeing]

What do you mean it's not worth the risk? What I'm trying to explain to you is that stopping at parellel is MORE dangerous and "risky" than going below parallel.

"The potential to injur the menisci, cruciate and collateral ligaments increases with the deep squat."

Since you decided to get all "scientific", can you provide a reference to this claim?

Not looking for a fight, just trying to put a little info out there.

PS - I have two years of experience

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

 

[Mule]

Wait, Wait, is this information of yours coming from a book TSB (the shit brain) or experiance.

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Im an Iron Addict!

 

[ballast]

I agree with Maki.I see no real danger in performing squats below parallel, as long as you use good technique.

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"My dad was a drunk,a gambler and a womanizer.I worshipped him!"

 

[Twinklebell]

I didn t wanna post here..but then I decided to post

well i am a newbie...in training..both theory and practise...

still my little experience.&..some other (more experienced) people s back s up Princes posts...btw..
well Prince..ur attitude seems very logicall..and ight to me...
but who am I to say...


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New kid on the board

 

[TheSupremeBeing]

Well said, Maki.

PS:

Chandler TJ, et al. (1989). The effect of the squat exercise on knee stability. Med Sci Sports Exer. 21(3): 299-303.

Chandler TJ and Stone MH. (1991). The squat exercise in athletic conditioning: a review of the literature. NSCA Journal. 13(5):58-59.

Escamilla RF, et al. (1998). Biomechanics of the knee during closed kinetic chain and open kinetic chain exercises. Med Sci Sports Exer. 30(4):556-569.

Panariello RA, et al. (1994). The effect of the squat exercise on anterior-posterior knee translation in professional football players. Am J Sports Med. 22(6):768-773.

Steiner ME, et al. (1986). The effect of exercise on anterior-posterior knee laxity. Am J Sports Med. 14(1):24-29.

Wretenberg P, et al. (1996). High- and low-bar squatting techniques during weight-training. Med Sci Sports Exer. 28(2):218-224.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

 

[Maki Riddington]

Without referencing any studies I will say that a exercise is determined dangerous by the way the trainee executes the particular movement.

As you drop below parallel you will increase hamstring,glute, calf, and lower back activation (note, the adductors of the thigh will also be stressed a great deal as you drop below parallel).

As for the cruciate and colateral ligaments, usually the only time a injury occurs is when there is great trauma to the knee area.
Squatting is not trauma. Running, jumping, etc is.
You would have to rotate or twist the knee under excessive forces which I do admit can happen but not if the load is suitable and form and technique are learned or taught by a knowledgable trainer or coach then chances are slim to none that injury will occur.



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Exercise, my drug of choice

 

[ZONE]

Thanks guys, but I'm now more confused then ever, Below or no??? Well since there is no popping until I hit paralle or below, maybe I should just stay above parallel???

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Thoughts are more powerful then Matter

 

[TheSupremeBeing]

The "not going beyond parallel" theory still holds some water for those who are post-surgical or who've been diagnosed as having patellofemoral dysfunction. But full squats are the very best way to strengthen the knees and not make them vulnerable to injury.

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Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.

 

[ZONE]

OK OK .. ARSS to the ground with a weight I can do using perfect form in a controled 2 up 4 down while doing 12-15 reps..... that sounds like the best thing to do

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Thoughts are more powerful then Matter

 

[teen1216]

I'm not saying this proves one point or the other, I'm just hoping someone will answer: Why is it that baseball catchers (particularly on MLB level) wear Knee Savers, etc. so when they squat down they don't go down as much, i.e. hams touching calves. They still go past parallel, even if they aren't squatting with a barbell, and most catchers knees are beat up bad if they've been playing for a long time, like 12 years. Most are also very slow, thought that could be attributed to the many other knicks and dings catchers get. Can explain this?

<FONT COLOR="#000002" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[Edited 1 time by teen1216 on 07-17-2001 at 03:55 PM]</font>

 

[ALBOB]

Good question.

The knee savers arent. They are there so the catcher doesn't go too low. The reason he doesn't want to go too low is so he can quickly get up and throw the ball to second on a pick-off or jump up to chase a foul ball. If he tried to rest in the semi-down position his quads would give out before the first inning was over, therefore "knee savers" were invented. The name is mis-leading.

The reason catcher's knees are bad is the stress from squatting on thier toes. When you or I squat in the gym we're pressing with our heels, at least I hope you are. That places the stress on the quads. Catchers squat behind the plate on thier toes which places all the stress on the knees. Try in sometime and see the difference between squatting from the heels and the toes, you'll be amazed.

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Life is hard so quit whining and go out there and be alive.

 

[teen1216]

OK, thanks for answering. I play baseball, and know about how the catcher needs to get up and stuff, but I hadn't realized the Knee Savers didn't actually help the knees.

It had also slipped my mind that all the squatting on the toes would hurt the knees.