Lab result questions

[1HungLo]

Luteinizing hormone value is 0.1. Range is 1.7 - 8.6

FSH, serum is 0.5 range is 1.5 - 12.4

How do I bring these up?

I ordered the female hormone panel from privateMDlabs so shouldn't they have given estradiol number too?

BUN is 32. With range 6-24
Creatinine is 1.56. With range 0.76 - 1.26
eGFR is 49. Range is >60
ALT is 64. Range is 0-44

Any thoughts?

 

[Swolldier]

LH & FSH will inherently be low due to TRT. Don't know why E2 wasn't provided; should have been included.


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[Swolldier]

BTW, wouldn't be worried about LH and FSH being low if on TRT for life, but could do a round of HCG to see if you rebound. Chances are your HTPA is crushed though.


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[skinnyguy180]

Yes if you are on trt those values are not going to change much.... Lh and fsh are what is released by your htpa to regulate your testosterone. If your injecting it the signals to produce test are going to be sparse.

 

[skinnyguy180]

BTW, wouldn't be worried about LH and FSH being low if on TRT for life, but could do a round of HCG to see if you rebound. Chances are your HTPA is crushed though.


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Also HCG does not make this rebound... Actually the opposite. What HCG will do is get your nut producing sperm and working at full speed again. Clomid is what you would use to give your HTPA a jump start.

 

[1HungLo]

Ok thanks bros for responses, you both have reps coming (if that means anything here anymore lol). I don't know what to think about the kidney function. Should I lay off everything for awhile? I am actually on TRT for life so I've been blasting and cruising for a few months now. Labs in Sept were normal including ALT.

 

[Swolldier]

Also HCG does not make this rebound... Actually the opposite. What HCG will do is get your nut producing sperm and working at full speed again. Clomid is what you would use to give your HTPA a jump start.

Yes, you're absolutely correct in that HCG will suppress LH and FSH for it mimics similar activity, though only initially, and the main objective is to re-stimulate the testis. And yes, in practice clomid does stimulate LH and FSH production. However, the HTPA axis works in concert with the systems involved. Therefore, stimulating the testis will in turn excite leydig cells to signal LH/FSH production (this being a very elementary explanation of the feedback loop). A more prudent protocol could/would consist of:

- HCG administration
- AI introduction to counteract E2 elevation
- Clomid for heightened LH/FSH production

Nonetheless, HCG IS the most commonly prescribed and accepted agent for HTPA axis "restart"; though I won't argue that I've heard of successful Clomid induced restarts. May simply be individualist as far as efficacy is concerned or what ultimately works for you.


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[skinnyguy180]

Yes, you're absolutely correct in that HCG will suppress LH and FSH for it mimics similar activity, though only initially, and the main objective is to re-stimulate the testis. And yes, in practice clomid does stimulate LH and FSH production. However, the HTPA axis works in concert with the systems involved. Therefore, stimulating the testis will in turn excite leydig cells to signal LH/FSH production (this being a very elementary explanation of the feedback loop). A more prudent protocol could/would consist of:

- HCG administration
- AI introduction to counteract E2 elevation
- Clomid for heightened LH/FSH production

Nonetheless, HCG IS the most commonly prescribed and accepted agent for HTPA axis "restart"; though I won't argue that I've heard of successful Clomid induced restarts. May simply be individualist as far as efficacy is concerned or what ultimately works for you.


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Reference?

I have not found anything that agrees with that statement and have been through infertility treatment.

 

[skinnyguy180]

If that was true people would be using HCG through out PCT instead of clomid. Seeing as how jump starting the HTPA is the point of PCT.

 

[Swolldier]

If that was true people would be using HCG through out PCT instead of clomid. Seeing as how jump starting the HTPA is the point of PCT.

Hey brother,
I completely agree with your assessment with respect to the benefits/function of SERMs. Everything you've said is exactly correct; I'm just saying I think there's a little more to it than just using Clomid.
I too have undergone infertility treatment (successfully, had a set of twins nearly 2 years ago and I'm 39 now). The protocol I cited above was the exact administration my Urologist suggested (which he espoused to me as being the most utilized/effective so I'll concede it's anecdotal). HCG's only benefit here is to restore testicular function; but I'm arguing it's one step among many to achieve the desired end result i.e. HCG after final injection WITH an AI and SERM during and for a time frame thereafter for HTPA axis restoration.

Is it your contention that HCG utilization is fruitless/unnecessary when considering a PCT regiment? Again, not trying to be combative bro for I echo the sentiment of SERM efficacy, just suggesting it's most effective with a combination of other agents. Perhaps we'll have to agree to disagree.


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[Swolldier]

Plus, if one is on TRT for life with no desire for children, LH FSH, hell, PCT for that matter is mute.

So as it relates to the original posted question, none of the aforementioned really matters lol! I enjoy the debate though, and if I'm wrong, I appreciate the education.


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[skinnyguy180]

Nonetheless, HCG IS the most commonly prescribed and accepted agent for HTPA axis "restart";

My issue is with this statement.

Hey brother,
I completely agree with your assessment with respect to the benefits/function of SERMs. Everything you've said is exactly correct; I'm just saying I think there's a little more to it than just using Clomid.
I too have undergone infertility treatment (successfully, had a set of twins nearly 2 years ago and I'm 39 now). The protocol I cited above was the exact administration my Urologist suggested (which he espoused to me as being the most utilized/effective so I'll concede it's anecdotal). HCG's only benefit here is to restore testicular function; but I'm arguing it's one step among many to achieve the desired end result i.e. HCG after final injection WITH an AI and SERM during and for a time frame thereafter for HTPA axis restoration.

Is it your contention that HCG utilization is fruitless/unnecessary when considering a PCT regiment? Again, not trying to be combative bro for I echo the sentiment of SERM efficacy, just suggesting it's most effective with a combination of other agents. Perhaps we'll have to agree to disagree. We arent talking about PCT we are talking about a HTPA "restart". OP was wondering how to possibly raise his LH and FSH you suggest HCG. My original point and current one is that HCG does not restart the HTPA or raise your natural LH or FSH. In fact there are several studies that show it suppresses your HTPA.


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Basically I am asking for a reference that supports what you are saying. Before a drug can be the "most common" prescription for an Injury or illness, several studies have to be done to prove that it is even effective for said use. So finding a study to shows HCG to restart you htpa should be pretty easy yet I cant find one study that says that HCG will raise you lh and fsh production as you indicated in your first post that I quoted.

Hcg is only commonly prescribed for infertility and that is because it acts like the hormone you are currently deficient in not because it makes you produce it.

 

[skinnyguy180]

Yes if you are on trt those values are not going to change much.... Lh and fsh are what is released by your htpa to regulate your testosterone. If your injecting it the signals to produce test are going to be sparse.

Plus, if one is on TRT for life with no desire for children, LH FSH, hell, PCT for that matter is mute.

So as it relates to the original posted question, none of the aforementioned really matters lol! I enjoy the debate though, and if I'm wrong, I appreciate the education.


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Yes your basically repeating what I posted in my first post.

 

[chocolatemalt]

HCG is only useful for restarting the HPTA as a preparatory, pre-PCT step -- keeping the testes fully functional and ready to receive the restarted LH/FSH signals for natural production. If you let them atrophy during cycle/TRT with no HCG, they may require another week or three to get back up to size and get functional. If you're lucky.

Using HCG *during* PCT will screw up the restart of LH since HCG mimics it, stimulates testosterone production, and feeds back to the hypothalamus and pituitary to remain shutdown. No restart.

 

[1HungLo]

I'm on trt for life. I've already had my kids and dont want anymore but I would like to keep my nuts so should I just do HCG like once a week or so?
BTW, my estradiol level came in at 27.5 so is that about where I want it to be?

 

[chocolatemalt]

I'm on trt for life. I've already had my kids and dont want anymore but I would like to keep my nuts so should I just do HCG like once a week or so?
BTW, my estradiol level came in at 27.5 so is that about where I want it to be?

Yeah, 10-30 is a good range.

I like to use 1000 IU/wk of HCG. Otherwise I atrophy big time, whether it's a cycle or cruise. Some guys don't have that issue tho, or less of one with very slow shrinkage, no aching, etc. YMMV. It's not expensive and easy enough to SQ so it's a non-issue IMO to stick with it.

 

[1HungLo]

Sounds good, thanks bro.