Man shoots kids for throwing snow!

[mmafiter]

A 10-year-old girl is fighting for her life after a man whose daughter was hit with a snowball returned and sprayed bullets into a group of children.
Joseph Best, 32, was arrested in Philadelphia and remanded on charges including attempted murder.

Ebony Smith, who police say was not involved in the snowball fight, is said to be in a critical condition with a head wound.

Best's daughter was hit with a snowball as she and her friends walked past a group of girls having a "friendly snowball fight", said Captain Charles Bloom of Philadelphia police.

A scuffle then broke out among the dozen or so girls, aged from 10 to 15. The groups soon parted ways, but Best returned with an older daughter and another brawl erupted, this time between adult relatives of both groups.

Police broke up that fight, but said Best came back again hours later, leaned out the passenger side of a moving car and fired at least five shots into the group of children still playing on the street. Authorities are trying to determine who was driving.

Police said the girl who was shot had been inside a house during the scuffles.

"This little girl had nothing to do with anything. She wasn't involved in the fight," Capt Bloom said. "He just seemed to be randomly shooting into the crowd."

 

[MJ23]

Oh, damn thats wrong

 

[Fade]

Here's the CNN article with a pic of the asshole.

CNN

 

[naturaltan]

If the little girl was my daughter in hospital, Joseph should consider himself lucky he was in police custody.

That's what kids do ... the get into it sometimes. Adults shouldn't try and control a situation that is already done and over with. No harm no foul.

 

[Mudge]

Pathetic, the whole family sounds pathetic. Daddy Daddy someone hit me with a snowball, go kick thier asses.

 

[kuso]

 

[DaMayor]

What a tragedy.
What a coward, to shoot children. Let me have him, I wouldn't need a gun to make my point.

 

[mmafiter]

Originally posted by Mudge
Pathetic, the whole family sounds pathetic. Daddy Daddy someone hit me with a snowball, go kick thier asses.

I agree. Actually I think all the parents involved sound like social retards.

Let's say my kid hits your kid with a snowball. You kid goes home crying and tells you. You get pissed and come over to yell at my kids. Now, let's say my kids tell you to "Fuck off!" I come outside, and I ask what's going on. After hearing the stories, I apologize to you, grab my kid and kick his ass ALL the way home!

That's how it should have been handled. Instead it sounds like all the adults acted like spoiled little kids.

 

[naturaltan]

according to the report, it was a snowball fight. If you child gets hit, that should be the end of it. It's winter. It's a snowball fight. No harm no foul ... move on. No adults need to be involved.

 

[ALBOB]

My hometown, the city of brotherly love.

 

[DaMayor]

Why is it that good parents are now the minority? (I realize this might come as a surprise, considering that I act like a flaming jackass here, on occasion....oh okay, most of the time) I just wonder why so many "parents" have fallen down regarding their responsibility to guide and nurture their kids. What kind of example do these children live by? Or maybe it goes furter than the individual. I've heard it said many times before that it is Society that raises our children. Assuming that this is to some degree true, the question is, "are WE doing enough" to deter or punish maniacs like this guy? I, sadly, think not.

 

[BUSTINOUT]

Originally posted by DaMayor
Why is it that good parents are now the minority? (I realize this might come as a surprise, considering that I act like a flaming jackass here, on occasion....oh okay, most of the time) I just wonder why so many "parents" have fallen down regarding their responsibility to guide and nurture their kids. What kind of example do these children live by? Or maybe it goes furter than the individual. I've heard it said many times before that it is Society that raises our children. Assuming that this is to some degree true, the question is, "are WE doing enough" to deter or punish maniacs like this guy? I, sadly, think not.

I think we are seeing all these dumbass parents, because so many dumbass kids of the 60's are now having children. They hated the establishment when they were young, and as a result, they have no laws in their own household. It is all coming home to roost. Typically, big dumbasses tend to breed little dumbasses.

 

[naturaltan]

Originally posted by DaMayor
... I've heard it said many times before that it is Society that raises our children. Assuming that this is to some degree true, the question is, "are WE doing enough" to deter or punish maniacs like this guy? I, sadly, think not.

I don't think society should be held responsible for how your child acts. Perhaps it's how society is in general. In our house, we have been thru most issues. We've told our daughter music does not make you a killer. Video games do not make you a killer. Being of a different race, creed or colour does not make you any less a person ... etc. And it's sad to know that these questions are coming because of a nine year old's experinces at school. DaMayor's point of what are children being taught at home is a good question. Being a good parent these days is doubly tough because you have to try and rationalize all the idiots act she sees and hears about daily.
"Mommy, bobby called me a n***** and then laughed. Why did he do that?" There is no effort needed to see that Bobby's parents are not capable of being parents.
"Mommy, this girl at school talks funny and Sally and her friends were making fun of her. I told them to stop and they shoved me and laughed" Sally is a quadriplegic ... again, Sally's parent's do not deserve to be parents!

 

[DaMayor]

Maybe I should have said 'society sets the guidlines by which we raise our children'. Regardless, I think the problem is ignorance and a total lack of social conscience. We've all become so conditioned to all of the insanity...the ignorance, the prejudice, and the violence, that the poor kids, unless taught otherwise, think it is the norm.
It isn't the norm in my house....never will be.

 

[naturaltan]

that I can agree to ... too many people think it as the norm.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by DaMayor
Maybe I should have said 'society sets the guidlines by which we raise our children'. Regardless, I think the problem is ignorance and a total lack of social conscience. We've all become so conditioned to all of the insanity...the ignorance, the prejudice, and the violence, that the poor kids, unless taught otherwise, think it is the norm.
It isn't the norm in my house....never will be.

<RANT ON>

I don't know if it's acceptable to post something that is possibly inflamitory here or not. Mods, please accept my apology in advance if I'm breaking some guideline. Chastise me at will should this be the case.

No doubt I will start a flame war with this, but don't instances such as this show you that for the most part, people shouldn't have access to guns? I know, I know, stupid Canadian is what most of you will think after reading this.

This always kills me whenever I see this kind of thing. Hell, north of the border the moron would have been forced get even by throwing snowballs of his own. Of course with the current deep freeze we're currently enjoying here they would be more like ice balls and subsequently more deadly, but you get the picture.

Having stated what you did above DaMayor, do you think it wise that society as a whole still be allowed to have easy access to handguns? I completely agree that society has become way too desensitised to violence in general with the constant bombardment of it on TV, at the movies, in video games etc. Having said that, I'm a big fan of all three, but I always shake my head when I see something like this.

Whenever some kid (up to teenager) goes off and kills his buddies or enemies as the case may be, the fact that he listened to Ozzy, or Judas Priest, or played Doom/Quake/pick a violent game gets blamed, but nobody ever seems to say what I personally think is pretty obvious; they had access to a gun. Not that I would know from first hand experience, but I couldn't help but think that stabbing someone to death is much harder (both from a execution standpoint as well as perhaps having your morals/conscience kick in before you go off to your next victim).

</RANT OFF>
Wouldn't imposing much more stringent bylaws on guns prevent this kind of thing from happening?

I'm honestly curious as to the general opinion here.

Nyarlathotep

 

[DaMayor]

Well, the sad truth is that we humans have a tendency of taking advantage of things....manipulating and/or exploiting the intended purpose of "tools", if you will, and using these more as a source of empowerment. In my opinion, with the exception of hunting game for food, warfare and law enforcement, guns have outlived their purpose. Even the uses I listed above could be debated.
I own a couple....I've rarely used them. But if I do, I will do so responsibly, and never against another human being. Why not? Because, my parents, and friends, and neighbors, and teachers, and ministers......members of the cross-section of society in which I was raised instilled within me a set of morals, a beliefs system that says "respect others" and "a human life is invaluable". Am I physically responsible for your children? Of course not. But my example makes an impact...that was my point.
Do I think everyone should be given access to guns? No. Why? Because we've got folks here that can't handle the responsibility. Is it a right? By law, yes.
The key word is empowerment...cowards are empowered via the (mis)use of 'props', a real man can stand alone.

 

[MJ23]

Demayor... I never read a post more than three lines...


but good writing though

 

[DaMayor]

I'm a little long winded these days...must be the protein.

 

[ALBOB]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep don't instances such as this show you that for the most part, people shouldn't have access to guns?

No. I'm from Philadelphia so I know the gun laws there, it's ALREADY illegal for him to have that gun. What are you going to do, make it MORE illegal? This is what gets me about the entire gun debate, laws are made for law abiding people. This moron obviously has no concept of reality and/or right and wrong, so you expect him to follow a new law just because it's new? That's naieve, to say the least. Now, you're going to say, "let's just get rid of ALL guns." Again, naive to say the least. If you could go back a few hundred years and make it so guns were never invented you'd have your Utopia, but you can't, get over it. So, how do we solve this problem? On to your next quote........

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep
Whenever some kid (up to teenager) goes off and kills his buddies or enemies as the case may be, the fact that he listened to Ozzy, or Judas Priest, or played Doom/Quake/pick a violent game gets blamed, but nobody ever seems to say what I personally think is pretty obvious; they had access to a gun.

Let's see, when a person commits a crime with a weapon there's; the person, the weapon (tool), the trigger that causes the person to commit the crime. Does that about cover it? So, you're saying that Ozzy or Judas Priest or whatever the trigger is isn't to blame so it MUST be the tool's fault. Wow, that's quite a logic trail you've got there. Nope, I never would have thought to hold the person responsible for his actions either. You mentioned people being "desensitized", they've lost touch with reality. I say, bring them back to reality and start making people RESPECT themselves, others and laws by enforcing the laws we already have. If they can't show respect and become a member of a polite society they can get put in a cage with the other animals.

 

[DaMayor]

Uh, should I retort...er should he?

 

[ALBOB]

Originally posted by DaMayor
Uh, should I retort...er should he?

Depends on what reaction you want from me. If he retorts we have a philosophical debate, if you retort I bitch slap you.

 

[DaMayor]

bbbbbBut MJ said I had the good writing!

 

[ALBOB]

Originally posted by DaMayor
bbbbbBut MJ said I had the good writing!

And I agree with him, just don't waste it on THIS subject............................unless, of course, you agree with me.

 

[DaMayor]

Well, you used my terms to represent his view......I believe he is on the right, you're on the left, and I am just off center..a bit to the left.
He said...guns are baaaaad.
I said.....people are baaaad.
You said....people who say guns are bad are baaaaad.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by ALBOB
No. I'm from Philadelphia so I know the gun laws there, it's ALREADY illegal for him to have that gun. What are you going to do, make it MORE illegal? This is what gets me about the entire gun debate, laws are made for law abiding people.

Yes, you could make it more illegal. I'm not saying this is the best idea, but in Canada you CAN own a handgun. However you have to keep the ammo and firearm separated and locked in different compartments. If you are to transport them anywhere it's to the police operated firing range. Before you depart for said range, you call and notify the police that you will be going to the range and what your tralleling path will be.

By being that stringent on guns then nobody but the criminal element has a gun on their person. There isn't a chance(well it's pretty bloody slim) of a non criminal being placed in a situation where they might feel the impulse to pull out their trusty handgun and blow away their foe. Now I understand that Toronto isn't as big as many US cities, but we have about 50-75 murders per year here. About a third of those are gun related. That's a pretty small number for 6 million people.

Originally posted by ALBOB
This moron obviously has no concept of reality and/or right and wrong, so you expect him to follow a new law just because it's new? That's naieve, to say the least. Now, you're going to say, "let's just get rid of ALL guns." Again, naive to say the least. If you could go back a few hundred years and make it so guns were never invented you'd have your Utopia, but you can't, get over it. So, how do we solve this problem?

By making the the punishments for carrying a gun on one's person or being neglectful as to it's storage steep, it will deter most people from carrying them around, and it would make (hopefully) most people take the time to properly lock them away. This would prevent their kids from getting easy access to them. If it's found that a child had easy access to a gun allowing them to shoot themselves or someone else, then the parents would be nailed with a crushing punishment. If you feel that getting rid of them would be too difficult, make it so that owning one is less and less appealing.

I understand the desire to protect oneself from criminals, but if there were less guns on the street then you could walk the streets or sleep peacefully at night never (or at least rarely) having the thought that some joker might pull a gun on you, or might break into your house and pull one on you. I suspect that a good lot of people that have guns for protection likely wind up having them used against them in one of the two examples mentioned above.

Originally posted by ALBOB
Let's see, when a person commits a crime with a weapon there's; the person, the weapon (tool), the trigger that causes the person to commit the crime. Does that about cover it? So, you're saying that Ozzy or Judas Priest or whatever the trigger is isn't to blame so it MUST be the tool's fault. Wow, that's quite a logic trail you've got there.

Actually, I was condemning the blaming of the music or video games as triggers. I play video games, listen to hard music, watch violence on both the big and small screen, and like the majority of people don't have homicidal thoughts. I think that the individuals that execute violence generally have something not quite right to begin with. Before you flame me for that, there are always exceptions.

Originally posted by ALBOB
Nope, I never would have thought to hold the person responsible for his actions either. You mentioned people being "desensitized", they've lost touch with reality. I say, bring them back to reality and start making people RESPECT themselves, others and laws by enforcing the laws we already have. If they can't show respect and become a member of a polite society they can get put in a cage with the other animals.

See my above statements. It is the person who is violent that's the problem. However having a tool (read handgun) that provides such an easy mechanism with which to unleash their violence is also part of the problem. By making it less appealing/easy to obtain/use a gun, I suspect a fair amount of gun related violence would be curbed. Petty criminals and law abiding citizens who get caught up in a situation would think twice before pulling a gun and facing a stiff sentance. It would make the true criminals the only people foolish enough to carry firearms.

Maybe it isn't a great solution, but I think it might be a start. Do you not think based on the number of gun related violence in the US that perhaps something should be done to reduce it? If not, then my argument will be lost on you. If so, how do you propose to alleviate the problem?

BTW I don't know if you were trying to correct my spelling of desensitise or stress it, but it can be spelled either way. American English typically uses Z instead of S in many words. I was brought up using S.

Nyarlathotep

 

[DaMayor]

Be careful AlBob....he's a...a jackass mounty!

 

[ALBOB]

After carefully reading your entire response it seems to me that you and I aren't very far off on this topic. We both believe that the PEOPLE who commit the crimes should be punished. We both believe that punishment should be sufficiently stiff so as to deter any future crimes by that person and also set an example for others who may commit a similar crime. It looks like the only place we differ is that you also want to make it more difficult for HONEST people to gain access/use of the chosen tool. Since it's highly doubtful you and I will EVER completely agree on this one point I think further debate is pointless. How about we agree to disagree and go have a beer?

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep BTW I don't know if you were trying to correct my spelling of desensitise or stress it, but it can be spelled either way. American English typically uses Z instead of S in many words. I was brought up using S.

Nyarlathotep

Nope, that's a mistake on my part. I correct NObody's spelling. Mine is about the worst on the planet.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by ALBOB
After carefully reading your entire response it seems to me that you and I aren't very far off on this topic. We both believe that the PEOPLE who commit the crimes should be punished. We both believe that punishment should be sufficiently stiff so as to deter any future crimes by that person and also set an example for others who may commit a similar crime. It looks like the only place we differ is that you also want to make it more difficult for HONEST people to gain access/use of the chosen tool. Since it's highly doubtful you and I will EVER completely agree on this one point I think further debate is pointless. How about we agree to disagree and go have a beer?

A fine idea. I think I'll do exactly that when I get home. Cheers

Don't ask me why today I decided to preach. Someone must have pissed in my coffee this morning. Truthfully I live in more of a gray area with most laws, but I just personally have a problem with guns. It's likely the fact that I simply wasn't exposed to them as I grew up. Please disregard my holier than thou postings. Who am I to judge?!

Originally posted by ALBOB
Nope, that's a mistake on my part. I correct NObody's spelling. Mine is about the worst on the planet.

I think we all could use a built in grammar/spell checker from time to time. Man, I have to patent that idea.

Nyarlathotep

 

[Mudge]

I dont have a problem with guns, I have a problem with a-holes. So since a few people missuse guns, I should now not be able to protect myself and my family, bullshit. That is not what freedom is about. This leaves criminals and police with guns, that helps me a fucking lot.

Outside influences like music, TV, should not affect people, but people let them. Some more, some less, etc Society as a whole seems rather like a dirty toilet bowl when you read about stuff like this, it just reminds you of the bad things out there, and how discusting some people can be. It only seems to be getting worse from what I can tell.