METHYLDIENOLONE is it worth it?

[David Tolson]

Originally posted by rrgg
I noticed that KiloSports is $70 and designersupp and another one are $25 and $26.

Do you know more about why Kneller recommends KiloSports? I can understand some inflation in the price, but that's almost 300%.

He recommends them because he sold it to them.

 

[David Tolson]

Originally posted by elitist
No, you're right rr. The patent(the term Kneller himself used) is on the brand name. So in theory, Gaspari, and all the others should have identical prods......Hey guys, all I know, is that compared to the price of a "legit" on cycle, $70 is nothing to flinch at. Find another stand alone that cheap, and I will be silenced. I mean, you're talking 30 days at the max dose for 70 beans. I'm not going to someone selling beta-solutions, or any other variations on this product, but hey, that's just me. I know what it's like having to pinch pennies, so do what ya feel is best. I wanted Knellers, so I paid a measly $50 more. Simple. Fuck all the dumb shit. Yanno?

Yeah, "fuck all the dumb shit." Like paying three times as much for a product that is at best equivalent, and which, for anyone who has been paying attention, there is a good chance doesn't even contain the active.

"Find another stand alone that cheap, and I will be silenced."

Methyl-1-test, from Underground Labs, $20 a month at 20 mg daily. And, if you are referring to scheduled substances, many oral steroids are dirt cheap if you know where to find them, and injectables are cheaper.

 

[Power Rabbit]

ya i can do a moderate gear cycle for 70-90 bucks... why people think more expensive means better makes no sense to me

 

[elitist]

wow, extrapolated......I'm impressed. How positively snide of you "Mr. Tolsen". The literature thast stands out in my head will be rediscovered, be sure of that, ans as far as your comments referring to my comment about liver protection supplements, and being OK, funny to me that you took that as a scientifically stated fact. It was an opinion, one that of course largely optomistic and generalized. Funny you missed that. Oh, and as for the post about the patent/trademark statement I made, did you completely miss post #49 by chance, or was it out of co0nvenience to your assails on my commentary? "No, you're right rr. The patent(the term Kneller himself used) is on the brand name. So in theory, Gaspari, and all the others should have identical prods...." Is it just me, or did I already state the correction you are trying to impose upon me? It is a trademarkeed name, and I do understand that it can mean next to nothing when comparing purity/effectiveness of a compound. However, the company which markets the trademarked produxt is highly reputable, as is bruce Kneller in the anabolic industry. Those two factors allude to a superior, and legit product, as opposed to the lesser known/sketchier behind the scenes companies who have not yet established their reputation in the supplement industry. Don't talk down to me, your statements are overblown, and crass.

 

[elitist]

More expensive does not mean "better" persay, more expensive is usually conducive to superior quailty/purity...note the "USUALLY"

 

[biggmike777]

Originally posted by elitist
More expensive does not mean "better" persay, more expensive is usually conducive to superior quailty/purity...note the "USUALLY"

On the BB.com forums Bruce Kneller's product was actually tested for purity and the outcome was that there was not much methyldienolone, if any actually in Kilo's product. Bruce sent it himself to Pat Arnold to be tested and it came back this way.

 

[rrgg]

In a recent newsletter, someone taking M-dien had bloodwork done and his ALT and AST were double what they should be. That is the reason for short (two week) cycles.

Hmm... so 1-3mg of methyl-d is toxic enough to warrant a 2 week limit on cycles. What does this mean for d-bol and various other steroids that people cycle for 6 weeks or more? Is methyl-d that much more toxic?

 

[elitist]

I wouldnt be so hasty to believe everything you read in BB.com Bigmike. You may have a valid point about Arnolds test results, and also quite possibly, there may be much more to this "test" than meets the eye. I myself, have seen quality gains on the methyldienolone from kilo. No shit. So to sit here, and have you tell me its basically a placebo, is not a pill I'm going to just sit back and swallow(no pun intended). This supp was worth the &0 bills. I stand by that. Real world results speak for themselves. I would have no shame in admitting if I'd been had by Kilo. That would be that. Alas, this is not the case. Arnolds test may say one thing, but my anecdotal evidence tells another tale. That's all I can say about this prod. It is effective.

 

[HoldDaMayo]

heresay for teh win!

sigh... this is why this industry is so laughed at... pickup a motor trend magazine and look at the LEGAL STEROID adds in the back and laugh your ass off at the ingrediants... yet you'll find people's accounts of the wonderful results...

Bottom line is, you can only learn so much from a forum... and you can only be a guinea pig for so long before you cause permanent damage... finding the balance isn't easy when it comes to debates like this....

 

[ddouble]

If you've seen the cost estimates on the material and packaging, you know mdien costs about $15 tops per bottle. So where is the other 55 bucks going when you buy Kilo/Gaspari? You're paying for their ads in the muscle mags and padding their pockets with at least 2x the profit of the Designer/1Fast product. So assuming that product quality is the same (I believe the Designer material tested at 98.6 percent), why pay almost three times as much?
From time to time, every consumer gets overzealous about a purchase and gets screwed on price. Just recognize that this is the case with anyone who bought/is buying from Kilo/Gaspari.

 

[rrgg]

Apparently, someone taking 1-3mg M-dien daily had bloodwork done showing ALT and AST double what they should be. Does someone know how this compares to ALT/AST results for taking 5-25mg of daily dbol or some other drug that's been around for many years?

Thanks.

 

[elitist]

hey .....all i can say is i bought kilos prod, and to me, it it worth the money i paid. Am I saying i got the best deal or the best m-dien out there? fuck no. Am i going to lose sleep at night because i may have spent 50 or so bucks more than i could have spent on an equally effective prod? fuck no. Will i be a more cautious consumer in the future when it comes to descision time, most definitely. Will I spend countless hours upon hours researching companies and validating their claims of a superior product next time around? Fuck no. Will I do an appreciable amount of scrutinizing before i buy, fuck yes.

 

[David Tolson]

Originally posted by elitist
wow, extrapolated......I'm impressed. How positively snide of you "Mr. Tolsen". The literature thast stands out in my head will be rediscovered, be sure of that,

MethylD and M1T have been compared head to head? And I should take your word from this? As it stands right now, from the literature that is actually known to exist, M1T is less androgenic. In all reality this may be why people are liking methylD better, because some androgenic properties aren't necessarily a bad thing.

ans as far as your comments referring to my comment about liver protection supplements, and being OK, funny to me that you took that as a scientifically stated fact. It was an opinion, one that of course largely optomistic and generalized. Funny you missed that.

Then you should've stated as such, instead of saying "Take milk thistle, NAC, and r-ALA, and you will be A-OK."

Oh, and as for the post about the patent/trademark statement I made, did you completely miss post #49 by chance, or was it out of co0nvenience to your assails on my commentary? "No, you're right rr. The patent(the term Kneller himself used) is on the brand name. So in theory, Gaspari, and all the others should have identical prods...." Is it just me, or did I already state the correction you are trying to impose upon me? It is a trademarkeed name, and I do understand that it can mean next to nothing when comparing purity/effectiveness of a compound. However, the company which markets the trademarked produxt is highly reputable, as is bruce Kneller in the anabolic industry. Those two factors allude to a superior, and legit product, as opposed to the lesser known/sketchier behind the scenes companies who have not yet established their reputation in the supplement industry. Don't talk down to me, your statements are overblown, and crass.

This is all purely subjective. As for the purity/quality issue, people can judge for themselves.

http://forum.avantlabs.com/?act=ST&f=1&t=9011
http://forum.avantlabs.com/?act=ST&f=1&t=9069

 

[David Tolson]

Originally posted by elitist
More expensive does not mean "better" persay, more expensive is usually conducive to superior quailty/purity...note the "USUALLY"

With dietary supplements, product purity is a minor factor at most in determining the end price. How much money the company spends on advertising, packaging, etc., how much buying power the company has, and how much money the company thinks people will pay for something are much larger factors in most cases. Take Now Foods, reliably pure, yet almost always they have the lowest price.

 

[David Tolson]

Originally posted by elitist
I wouldnt be so hasty to believe everything you read in BB.com Bigmike. You may have a valid point about Arnolds test results, and also quite possibly, there may be much more to this "test" than meets the eye. I myself, have seen quality gains on the methyldienolone from kilo. No shit. So to sit here, and have you tell me its basically a placebo, is not a pill I'm going to just sit back and swallow(no pun intended). This supp was worth the &0 bills. I stand by that. Real world results speak for themselves. I would have no shame in admitting if I'd been had by Kilo. That would be that. Alas, this is not the case. Arnolds test may say one thing, but my anecdotal evidence tells another tale. That's all I can say about this prod. It is effective.

First, as I recently posted elsewhere: "Awareness of the placebo effect does not make you immune to it, by any means. Everyone considers themself to be an objective observer, able to adequately determine whether or not they are getting results from something - other than the good scientist. IOW I don't care how long someone has been lifting, or how smart they are, I wouldn't put much trust in anecdotal feedback from anyone, including myself."

Second, I'm not saying you are, but you could easily be someone trying to protect BK's interests. This wouldn't be too hard to believe since when I checked earlier your posts were almost exclusively on threads that discussed methylD so far. All I'm saying is, you really can't take anecodtal feedback from anyone for granted, especially someone who has made clear false or unsupportable statements in support of a product ("Take liver protection supplements and you will be A-OK," "50% as androgenic as M1T," etc).

 

[elitist]

You make valid points Mr. Tolson, who's to say I'm not BKs bosom buddy? .....Hey the placebo effect is worth mentioning, but surely you don't write off anecdotal eveidence completely on its behalf. If it is subtle, maybe then....but stark results? That's harder to write off as psychosomatic(although not impossible). Yes, I have made subjective statements on here..and I trust that they were taken as such. Never did I state these opinions as factual, and I'm sure the good people of the board can infer they are anything but. I'm going for my liver bloodwork on Tues., and I, being a methyldienolone user for the past weeks at 3 mg. a day will hopefully shed some light on the toxicity of the compound. Of course the varibles are too many to count between individual tolerance/sides, but one thing is for sure, the bloodwork is not partial to any placebo induced suggestion. So we shall see.

 

[rrgg]

Thanks elitist. I hope you share the results of that bloodwork.

 

[topolo]

Originally posted by HoldDaMayo
heresay for teh win!

sigh... this is why this industry is so laughed at... pickup a motor trend magazine and look at the LEGAL STEROID adds in the back and laugh your ass off at the ingrediants... yet you'll find people's accounts of the wonderful results...

Bottom line is, you can only learn so much from a forum... and you can only be a guinea pig for so long before you cause permanent damage... finding the balance isn't easy when it comes to debates like this....

well said hold da mayo!!!

 

[elitist]

not well said. wtf do adds for smilax and deer antler velvet have to do with methyldienolone? Yea ...I'm giving groundless positive reviews on a product that definitely doesnt work, right?....

 

[topolo]

YES............WELL SAID!!!

 

[elitist]

(laffs)....yer funny....lookin'

 

[tomas101]

price mark ups make consumers feel that they are paying for a superior product when in actuality, if they did a lil research they would find better deals with the same ingredients...name of a company has a lot to do with it...vpx, beverly int., etc can mark prices up b/c pple buy from them feeling that they are a superior company...kinda like with cars...pple buy mercedes b/c of the quality they put into their cars... that might not have came out correctly but u know what i mean ...brain is fried from just finishing a marketing exam and this is exaclty what it was on..lol

 

[elitist]

yea i guess the mark up did make me feel better, bit yanno, when all is said and done I believe I got what I paid for. Could I have paid less? perhaps, but damn, to me, fifty dollars is not something I'm gonna whine about. so why dont you all follow suit. This thread needs to be termed already, gettin redundant...

 

[tomas101]

Originally posted by elitist
yea i guess the mark up did make me feel better, bit yanno, when all is said and done I believe I got what I paid for.

ah HA!!! i was correct

 

[elitist]

ummm....way to go sherlock

 

[rrgg]

Wasn't Kilo the only one with the product in stock at the time anyway? I don't think elitist got ripped off. The other guys offered a lower price but didn't have it in stock yet.