Military folk, it this for real?

[Big Smoothy]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=5&u=/nm/20040629/ts_nm/iraq_usa_reserve_dc

If it is, it's just another reason why I would not sign a 4 year contract to serve. I sign up for 4 years and end up having to give 12? So I could be out of the military for 7.5 years and making 6+ figures and they could call me back? Would they have to match my current salary? If not, that is bullshit.

Here's a related question, Dale.

Many of reservists that were called up to serve in Iraq were working at jobs that paid more. And they had mortgages and families to support. With the military pay many have taken a pay cut. So, how are they making ends meet to pay the mortgage, etc.?????

 

[Dale Mabry]

Good question Snafu, I wonder as well.

Sean, that sucks what you have going on, but won't they also pay for living expenses too, Ya gotta factor that in. Still definitely underpaid for the amount of time you say you have to work.

As for mandatory 2 years service, I would go for that, I just wouldn't want to give up 4 years of my life and then be on a short leash for another 4. I also see the point that you don't want people who don't want to be in the service fighting wars.

I think any person who has ever seen action in a war should be set for life money-wise. As for the people who never see combat, are they not just basically working civilian type jobs for themilitary? This is what I would take issue with and what I think OD is. So I go in as an Aerospace Engineer, get my school paid for, never see a second of combat time, then get out, collect a huge pension, and then make 6 figures at NASA. I can see how that would eat at someone.

 

[Sean0621]

I get what you're sayin man.

Good question Snafu, I wonder as well.

Sean, that sucks what you have going on, but won't they also pay for living expenses too, Ya gotta factor that in. Still definitely underpaid for the amount of time you say you have to work.
I factor it in the living expenses, but it's hard to say well at least they put a roof over my head when I'm sleeping out in the forest all the time. Ya know what I'm saying, actually I love it, looking back, but I hate it when I'm out doing it, if ya get my meaning. Honestly we aren't in it for the money anyways, but I can't help but find it funny that the guy flipping burgers at mcdonalds makes more money than me.
As for mandatory 2 years service, I would go for that, I just wouldn't want to give up 4 years of my life and then be on a short leash for another 4. I also see the point that you don't want people who don't want to be in the service fighting wars.
Hey the military isn't for everyone. I can't say joining the Marines helps the education process any, but they do pay for college. But there's always the reserves, even though you'd probably get activated now, but it's not a bad experience. Nothing wrong with looking out for yourself, I just wanted to be part of something a little bigger than me for once. I don't look at anybody who hasn't served as being any less a man or woman.
I think any person who has ever seen action in a war should be set for life money-wise. As for the people who never see combat, are they not just basically working civilian type j...obs for themilitary? This is what I would take issue with and what I think OD is. So I go in as an Aerospace Engineer, get my school paid for, never see a second of combat time, then get out, collect a huge pension, and then make 6 figures at NASA. I can see how that would eat at someone.
No when you're not in combat, you're off pretending you're in combat as far as I know. It seems like we are always out in the field running around. Some guys you'll see sitting on they're asses, that's how it is. Here's a scenario you might see, about thirty guys lying down on their packs sleeping, well they might be waiting to go on a 15 mile hump, you'd see that all the time. It's the whole hurry up and wait thing the entire military believes in. But everything is done for a reason, one second you could be standing around the next all hell breaks loose. Everything we do seems like a combat simulation, but then I'm attached to an infantry unit, I'm sure it's different for our combat secretaries, they usually do get to sit on their asses.

 

[copen73]

I can see how the double and triple dipping could get to some people, believe me I knew many military personnel who retired and pick up a second government job. Me, I personally agree with Rich that everyone who serves should be allowed to double dip due to the fact they provided this entire country freedom.

Dale we really don't get a lot of help for living expenses. If you don't live on base then you do get Basic Allowance for Housing. However, if you are like me and live in CA then the BAH will barely pay for rent of a small apartment. Not good if you have a family. Some places, like Hawaii, get a cost of living adjustment because it is so damn expensive, but hell when you pay 3 buck for a gallon of milk you needs some thing to help.



A lot of the jobs in the military require you to work weekends, holidays, and over 40 hours a week. Keep in mind that we don't get extra pay for this.....there is no such thing as time and a half for us. Nor do we usually get compensated for holiday that we worked. I once worked 3 Christmas Days in a row.



Granted the military has to receive the low pay, there is no way the government could afford to pays what we really deserve, but at least we used to have great benefits. Those seem to be going quickly, though. Somebody mentioned the commissary, well I have found a lot of times local grocery stores are cheaper. An as for the Base Exchange...I do most of my shopping at Wal-Mart because it is also cheaper.



It's pretty sad when you are serving you country and you have to live off of food stamps. I know a lot of E-4's and below who count on them coming in the mail



OD, thanks for you support.

 

[Sean0621]

Somebody mentioned the commissary, well I have found a lot of times local grocery stores are cheaper. An as for the Base Exchange...I do most of my shopping at Wal-Mart because it is also cheaper.
It's pretty sad when you are serving you country and you have to live off of food stamps. I know a lot of E-4's and below who count on them coming in the mail

Yeah I agree with ya about the California prices. The damn PX in 29 palms was a little outrageous, and as far as clothes and stuff everything was way too expensive. A damn pair of levis jeans that costs $25 here cost $40 over there. I could have had my damn clothes shipped to me like some people did, but instead I bought one shirt and one pair of jeans and wore it whenever we got libbo, I just didn't care. Course I washed them so many times I couldn't tell ya the original color of either peice of clothing. We were always working and we only got one day of libbo every two weeks the way guard duty was worked out, so it was no big deal. Yeah I felt bad for the guys with families to support, a SSgt I know told me a story about visiting one of his Corporals living in base housing, and he said that the refrigerator and all the cupboards were empty and he had 4 half starved kids, so he took him down to the commisary and bought him $200 in groceries. Made me feel lucky I only had myself to support.

 

[Big Smoothy]

It's pretty sad when you are serving you country and you have to live off of food stamps. I know a lot of E-4's and below who count on them coming in the mail

I've heard and read about this. Pretty disgraceful. Of all the taxpayer money flushed down the drain, lost in foreign aid corruption, and so on....they can't even pay an E-4 enough to not qualify for food stamps.

What is especially unnerving, is that enlisted men and lower-lever officers are considered expendable by the military anyway.

 

[MaxMirkin]

Well, I may get boo'd out of the room, but I think a year or two of service would be a great idea for ALL kids. If some did not want to do military, there can be other options for personal service. Two reasons 1) we need that service and 2) 18 is too damn young to hit college.

Er.....no, thank you. One of the biggest reasons that people move to this country from some places (Russia, Israel, etc.) is to avoid mandatory service. If you want to be in the military, more power to you. But, no one should be forced.

 

[OceanDude]

Er.....no, thank you. One of the biggest reasons that people move to this country from some places (Russia, Israel, etc.) is to avoid mandatory service. If you want to be in the military, more power to you. But, no one should be forced.

Hmm, I never thought of this before. Could the solution to our immigration problem be as simle as "to prove your sincerity to be a citizen of the USA you must prove your worthiness and fight for our country for 4 years before you are given all rights."

I lke it. But then who would the democrats have to recruit into the voter pool once we got the Mexicans over to Iraq?

OD

 

[MaxMirkin]

There's a lot of smart people (not me ) that came here to avoid being "volunteered" in their home countries. Would you want to lose them over this?

 

[OceanDude]

There's a lot of smart people (not me ) that came here to avoid being "volunteered" in their home countries. Would you want to lose them over this?

Simply stated - Yes. This country has too many "smart" people being imported who know all too well how to milk the working class out of their tax for benefits. Specifically the Cubans, the Mexicans, The Haitians and the Purto Ricans are "smartly" stealing the working classes tax base. There are entire organizations that are for a fee coaching these on how to gain entry into this country, get married or have a child here and then force/extort boarder states (e.g. CA, FL. Texas) to give them free schooling (in native tounge), food stamps, federal programs and a ton of money. Most working US citizens are clueless about how to get for themselves. The Democarats support this insane policy becuase they know taht they can pick up more votes if they can get them licensed to drive and working here long enough to get a voter card or at least a kick back on donations to the party through the agencies that are helping the "illegals" be "legal".

On a different scale this is also happening with the Indians, Asians and others. They are coming here on student visas and then getting Doctor degrees etc and instead of returning home to help the impoverished people of their native lands who underwrote their university programs (again through tax in their native countries) essentally stay here on temporary jobs for as long as it takes to become naturalized or marry some redneck girl looking for an easy lifestyle to gain citizenship. The foreign women do the same thing by giving professinal husbands $10,000 to be married for a minimal period (with or without gigalo rights) then do non-contested divorces and stay.

This country's imigration situation is a travesty and we are selling the country to foreigners daily. The locals are clueless that most realestate is being bought up by foreigners and resold at super high prices that the local economies can not support. In short this country is being professionally raped right now and the worst has not even begun to be seen yet.

OD

 

[Dale Mabry]

Hmm, I never thought of this before. Could the solution to our immigration problem be as simle as "to prove your sincerity to be a citizen of the USA you must prove your worthiness and fight for our country for 4 years before you are given all rights."

OD

You look at Mexico's military and you tell me that, without a shadow of a doubt, that you would want these people representing you in a war. We would look like a bunch of Pussy faggots.

I say we close the borders to everyone except hot women with big boobs and low standards.

 

[OceanDude]

You look at Mexico's military and you tell me that, without a shadow of a doubt, that you would want these people representing you in a war. We would look like a bunch of Pussy faggots.

I say we close the borders to everyone except hot women with big boobs and low standards.

Dale, the way I look at it we give em all tequila, put em in the lead humves and let em drie like they do when they are crossing the border in S. CA. Not a chance the terorists can hit em with those remote bombs - too erratic.

OD

 

[ALBOB]

Dale, the way I look at it we give em all tequila

Oh HELL NO!!! You can put them in humvves all you want and have them drive to Hell and back for all I care, but we do not GIVE away tequilla!!!

 

[MaxMirkin]

Simply stated - Yes. This country has too many "smart" people being imported who know all too well how to milk the working class out of their tax for benefits. Specifically the Cubans, the Mexicans, The Haitians and the Purto Ricans are "smartly" stealing the working classes tax base. There are entire organizations that are for a fee coaching these on how to gain entry into this country, get married or have a child here and then force/extort boarder states (e.g. CA, FL. Texas) to give them free schooling (in native tounge), food stamps, federal programs and a ton of money. Most working US citizens are clueless about how to get for themselves. The Democarats support this insane policy becuase they know taht they can pick up more votes if they can get them licensed to drive and working here long enough to get a voter card or at least a kick back on donations to the party through the agencies that are helping the "illegals" be "legal".

On a different scale this is also happening with the Indians, Asians and others. They are coming here on student visas and then getting Doctor degrees etc and instead of returning home to help the impoverished people of their native lands who underwrote their university programs (again through tax in their native countries) essentally stay here on temporary jobs for as long as it takes to become naturalized or marry some redneck girl looking for an easy lifestyle to gain citizenship. The foreign women do the same thing by giving professinal husbands $10,000 to be married for a minimal period (with or without gigalo rights) then do non-contested divorces and stay.

This country's imigration situation is a travesty and we are selling the country to foreigners daily. The locals are clueless that most realestate is being bought up by foreigners and resold at super high prices that the local economies can not support. In short this country is being professionally raped right now and the worst has not even begun to be seen yet.

OD

On behalf of immigrants everywhere:

Now then, back to milking the suckers.....I mean hard working Americans, out of their precious taxes...................oooh.......I think I'll buy a nice new mansion with OD's tax money.

 

[copen73]

I say we close the borders to everyone except hot women with big boobs and low standards.

Outstanding!!! I like it If this becomes law then I volunteer to conduct strip searches at the border

 

[Dale Mabry]

Oh HELL NO!!! You can put them in humvves all you want and have them drive to Hell and back for all I care, but we do not GIVE away tequilla!!!

Good call. Actually, I say we send them all the bottom shelf stuff and we bogart the petrone for ourselves.

Hey Max, I think you should take some of OD's tax money and donate it to John Kerry. Even just a dollar would prolly be enough.

 

[MaxMirkin]

Kerry's weak. Bush is no picnic either. Damn it, when are we finally gonna see a respectable candidate from the Anarchist party?

 

[Hanz29]

Simply stated - Yes. This country has too many "smart" people being imported who know all too well how to milk the working class out of their tax for benefits. Specifically the Cubans, the Mexicans, The Haitians and the Purto Ricans are "smartly" stealing the working classes tax base. There are entire organizations that are for a fee coaching these on how to gain entry into this country, get married or have a child here and then force/extort boarder states (e.g. CA, FL. Texas) to give them free schooling (in native tounge), food stamps, federal programs and a ton of money. Most working US citizens are clueless about how to get for themselves. The Democarats support this insane policy becuase they know taht they can pick up more votes if they can get them licensed to drive and working here long enough to get a voter card or at least a kick back on donations to the party through the agencies that are helping the "illegals" be "legal".

On a different scale this is also happening with the Indians, Asians and others. They are coming here on student visas and then getting Doctor degrees etc and instead of returning home to help the impoverished people of their native lands who underwrote their university programs (again through tax in their native countries) essentally stay here on temporary jobs for as long as it takes to become naturalized or marry some redneck girl looking for an easy lifestyle to gain citizenship. The foreign women do the same thing by giving professinal husbands $10,000 to be married for a minimal period (with or without gigalo rights) then do non-contested divorces and stay.

This country's imigration situation is a travesty and we are selling the country to foreigners daily. The locals are clueless that most realestate is being bought up by foreigners and resold at super high prices that the local economies can not support. In short this country is being professionally raped right now and the worst has not even begun to be seen yet.

OD

As a mexican- I can tell you, I don't don't believe it is us that push for this crap- It's the democrats who lure you in by bringing the idea that America owes us something into the consciousness- Trust me- the reason I am so anti-democrat is b/c they keep exploiting minorities for the vote, and I F'n hate race-baiting

that is all- oh, and this

 

[OceanDude]

Wow Haz I am impressed! You see exactly what is going on. Bravo.

-OD

 

[Dale Mabry]

America owes no one shit, with this I agree.

 

[austinite]

Owing the military a total of 8 years combined reserve and active is no news to anyone who signed up. Recall during war is no surprise. Stop Loss is no shock either. Both are expected during conflict, and both happened during the first Gulf War.

 

[Rich46yo]

""""""Er.....no, thank you. One of the biggest reasons that people move to this country from some places (Russia, Israel, etc.) is to avoid mandatory service. If you want to be in the military, more power to you. But, no one should be forced"""""""

Good thing your forefathers didnt think like that. Or else right now you'd be working 18 hours a day in a slave labor camp. That is if you avoided getting sent up a chimney and tunred into soylent green. YaKnow I just cant understand why young Americans feel like they dont owe service to their country. Why they dont feel they owe a debt for their freedom?..............why is that?.............Rich

 

[MaxMirkin]

""""""Er.....no, thank you. One of the biggest reasons that people move to this country from some places (Russia, Israel, etc.) is to avoid mandatory service. If you want to be in the military, more power to you. But, no one should be forced"""""""

Good thing your forefathers didnt think like that. Or else right now you'd be working 18 hours a day in a slave labor camp. That is if you avoided getting sent up a chimney and tunred into soylent green. YaKnow I just cant understand why young Americans feel like they dont owe service to their country. Why they dont feel they owe a debt for their freedom?..............why is that?.............Rich

Can't speak for all young Americans, but personally I feel that I pay my debt in the form of mind-staggering taxes. Why should I die for my country? Honestly, I'm just not that patriotic. Would I fight if, my back was against the wall, we were invaded, and my family was threatened? Yes, probably. But am I gonna be forced into the armed forces to go god knows where for a nice chance at a gruesome death, all for a war that means less then nothing to me? Fuck no! Like I said, if you want to enlist I have all the respect in the world for you, but don't try to force me or anybody else. The day they bring back the draft, I will become a proud citizen of Canada.

 

[Pepper]

The day they bring back the draft, I will become a proud citizen of Canada.

Then you will learn how bad taxes can be!

 

[tucker01]

Then you will learn how bad taxes can be!

And talk about limitations on rights

 

[Pepper]

I love Canada though...birthplace of the most beautiful woman alive...Shania Twain.

 

[Dale Mabry]

I pay my debt in the form of mind-staggering taxes. Why should I die for my country?

Truer words have never been spoken. Why not make it a choice? You could have taxes, or serve. Then, tax the hell out of the rich so that their bastard children have to serve too.

 

[maniclion]

Serving in the military is not the only way to be productive and serve your country. What if the garbage men never picked up the garbage twice a week, or the police/firefighters/paramedics decided not to come to work etc. Military life is not for everyone, believe me. I went crazy doing 3 1/2 years, every day seemed like the countdown of a prison sentence, not because of contempt for authority or some shit like that but that my personality just doesn't jibe well with the military personalities that surrounded me. I'm a creative artistic person and I found being stuck on a ship for month's at a time hampered my modes of expression. I felt pent up inside of myself.

 

[Sean0621]

Serving in the military is not the only way to be productive and serve your country. What if the garbage men never picked up the garbage twice a week, or the police/firefighters/paramedics decided not to come to work etc. Military life is not for everyone, believe me. I went crazy doing 3 1/2 years, every day seemed like the countdown of a prison sentence, not because of contempt for authority or some shit like that but that my personality just doesn't jibe well with the military personalities that surrounded me. I'm a creative artistic person and I found being stuck on a ship for month's at a time hampered my modes of expression. I felt pent up inside of myself.

I think garbage men make more than any of those other professions you mentioned. But yeah I count down the days as well I know a guy in my platoon that counts down the hours until we sleep and have libbo. It's all the down time that drives me crazy, if we are on the rifle range or doing live combat firing or squad rushes the days go by alot faster. I understand what you mean about a clashing of personalities, I left art school to go join the Marines, I was fully ready to do graphic art or even be a starving artist for my career, and i also played lead guitar in a goth metal band, but things change. i wanted to do something that wasn't just for me for once and I ended up joining the Marines. Though I always thought about being a Marine since I was 5, never thought it would actually happen but hey stranger things have happened.

 

[Rich46yo]

"""""""Can't speak for all young Americans, but personally I feel that I pay my debt in the form of mind-staggering taxes. Why should I die for my country? Honestly, I'm just not that patriotic. Would I fight if, my back was against the wall, we were invaded, and my family was threatened? Yes, probably. But am I gonna be forced into the armed forces to go god knows where for a nice chance at a gruesome death, all for a war that means less then nothing to me? Fuck no! Like I said, if you want to enlist I have all the respect in the world for you, but don't try to force me or anybody else. The day they bring back the draft, I will become a proud citizen of Canada. """"""

Kid a 25yo hasnt paid "mind-staggering taxes". Compared to what other countrys pay you havnt paid nothing. Your silly,spoiled,childish attitude really downgrades the sacrafices many veterans have made so you can have the right to "pay taxes" in a free society. Many of those veterans have died for your freedom kid, many have given up limbs and suffered terribly so you could have the right to post little smiley's and blather on about running to Canada like a little pussy.

While there are exceptions, like Sean and maniclion, I find many young Americans today to be a bunch of spoiled, mommies boys who dont know if their asses are punched or drilled. I think they slept during history class when the sacrafices of their fore-fathers were taught. Young Americans today feel like they have no debt, they feel like they are only owed. This is no flame but I find "kids" like Max, and their attitudes, despicable. If I were President you can bet theyd have to make a choice between service to their country and Canada. And then I'd bring Canada to its knees for giving them sanctuary.

Your country has already been invaded kid, its already been threatened. And I'll tell you what its going to get much worse..............take care........................Rich