Mini-cuts while deloading

[Phineas]

I've put together my first volume training program. Because of the...well...volume! I've included 1-week deloading phases to be done every month. So, it's 3 weeks on, 1 week off.

My question is, during those deloading phases can I perform a mini-cut for the week? I've always read that deloading is a rest not for the muscles but for the CNS, but I'm unsure if CNS recovery requires a calorie surplus.

I just finished a successful short cut for practice. I wanted to do the mini-cuts during deloading for (a) more practice and (b) the slightest bit of BF maintenance during the program.

 

[Perdido]

Interesting approach. Let us know how it works.

 

[rockhardly]

I thought about this al weekend. Although I have not completely convinced myself, my thoughts are this.

1. After 3 weeks of training, would the muscles be completely repaired by the time you started your deload? If not, then you would still want to provide the extra nurishment for their repair. As for the CNS, since it takes some damage as well, extra nurishment for its repair only seems logical.

2. I think I would have a hard time shifting from surplus to deficit. It takes me a while to get things moving in the right direction. You stated "practice" but if your practicing I dont think a week is long enough to determine if you need to tweak something or if its good as is. Unless your talking about doing the exact same 4 week interval from month to month for a long time then you could see how it turned out in the end but what would be your base-line?

I think if I was going to try something like this, I would go with the bulk for 3 months and then spend a month cutting. This way there is enough time with each stage to monitor your success.

Also, I would fear the constant diet shift would hender my muscle building. Perhaps you might lose a weak if building by shifting like that so outta 4 weeks you only added 2 weeks of muscle.

Just my thoughts. As for me, I am going to try to nail my bulking diet down to were I am adding more muscle than fat (maybe 2:1) so when I cut, it takes less time.

 

[Phineas]

I thought about this al weekend. Although I have not completely convinced myself, my thoughts are this.

1. After 3 weeks of training, would the muscles be completely repaired by the time you started your deload? If not, then you would still want to provide the extra nurishment for their repair. As for the CNS, since it takes some damage as well, extra nurishment for its repair only seems logical.

2. I think I would have a hard time shifting from surplus to deficit. It takes me a while to get things moving in the right direction. You stated "practice" but if your practicing I dont think a week is long enough to determine if you need to tweak something or if its good as is. Unless your talking about doing the exact same 4 week interval from month to month for a long time then you could see how it turned out in the end but what would be your base-line?

I think if I was going to try something like this, I would go with the bulk for 3 months and then spend a month cutting. This way there is enough time with each stage to monitor your success.

Also, I would fear the constant diet shift would hender my muscle building. Perhaps you might lose a weak if building by shifting like that so outta 4 weeks you only added 2 weeks of muscle.

Just my thoughts. As for me, I am going to try to nail my bulking diet down to were I am adding more muscle than fat (maybe 2:1) so when I cut, it takes less time.

Excellent points.

My rationale:

(1.) Deloads aren't intended for muscle recovery, but only CNS. Ideally, a lifter provides sufficient time for muscle recovery during training weeks. So, by the time I started the deload my muscles would be fine. The week off would be for neurological recovery. I'm just unsure if calories are required for that process.

(2.) Practice not for actual results, as one week would amount to at most 2 lbs, but getting more and more comfortable with my cutting macros. I finished a successful 1-month practice cut and my macros seemed fine, though at times I thought maybe a bit too aggressive of a deficit. So, I figured a week is long enough to lose a slight bit of fat without fear of muscle loss while better getting a feel for what my body needs when on a deficit. When I began my cut I was feeling a difference after only 1 or 2 days.

(3.) I was planning on repeating the process. My new program is 4 months, so 3 weeks on 1 off, done 4 times. So, there would be consistency in my tracking.

The downside is that returning to a volume program immediately after a week from a deficit may be counter-productive. The first few days of my program have been successful but overly-taxing; going from a very strict deficit to a bulking diet again has been an odd shift.

I like your idea of bulking then cutting 1 month. It's more realistic. I'm also going to bulk cleaner this time around. When I was bulking before I actually didn't track my macros! It wasn't until I cut that I used fitday (what a useful site, by the way), and found just how effective my training could be when I plugged in all the numbers the way I needed them. So, I'm putting together bulking macros, and this time they'll be more moderate than before so that I don't gain a heap of fat. The highest I ever got was 15-17% (15 this year, 17 in August 2009). I would like to not exceed 13% this time.

I think I might take your idea and cut after 3 months. Would you suggest doing the first 3 months of my program, cutting 1 month, and then finishing the last month? Or, should I do 2 months bulk, 1 cut, 2 bulk? What do you think would work best?

Thanks for the advice.

 

[rockhardly]

I think I might take your idea and cut after 3 months. Would you suggest doing the first 3 months of my program, cutting 1 month, and then finishing the last month? Or, should I do 2 months bulk, 1 cut, 2 bulk? What do you think would work best?

What is your plan (training program, diet etc.) after you finish the 4 month volume training?

Perhaps a good option (and something I am now considering) is run this program for 3 months instead of 4, cut for 1 month, and then start another program (wether it be more volume or different) and run it for 3 months and cut again for another month. Basically, spend a month cutting after each program. It would definately keep you on your toes and help keep things fresh. And if you can get your bulking diet dialed in, this should keep you lean all year.

It sounds like you did what I did, eat like a fucking horse every day, embraced the fat, and wound up with more body fat than you should have. My last bulk I put on 30#'s, 15 of which was fat. I know I can do better than 1:1 and this may be the way to accomplish that.

 

[davegmb]

Why dont you post your volume training routine Phineas? remember you talking about switching to volume training about..........well was it over a month ago? so what did you come up with, because you didnt seem too keen on the German one?

 

[Phineas]

Why dont you post your volume training routine Phineas? remember you talking about switching to volume training about..........well was it over a month ago? so what did you come up with, because you didnt seem too keen on the German one?

So, I'm still unsure exactly how I'm going to structure it in the long run; I need to see how my body reacts to the volume.

As I plan, I'll go 3 weeks on, 1 off for deloading -- repeated 4 times. Though, I might change it to 2 weeks on, 1 off, repeated 8 times.

As I typically train, tempo is technically free-style -- though 90% of the time works out to 2 second concentrics and 2-3 second negatives

*as I typically train, all calf work is random...could be any exercises for any amount of reps/intensity at any tempo, etc

Session 1: Lower Push/Calves

(1.) Back Squats - 5 x 5 @ 5-6 RM; 2 min RI
(2.) *calf work
(3.) BB Split Squats - 4 x 8 @ 10 RM; 1-1.5 min RI
(4.) *calf work
(5.) Lumberjack Squats - 3 x 15 @ 17-18 RM, 1 min RI
(6.) *calf work

Session 2: Upper Horizontal Push/Vertical Pull

(1.) Dead Press (AND)
(2.) Pullups - 5 x 5 @ 5-6 RM; 2 min RI
(3.) Bar Dips (AND)
(4.) Close-Grip V-Bar Chins - 4 x 8 @ 10 RM; 1-1.5 min RI
(5.) Incline DB Chest Press (AND)
(6.) Lat Pulldowns - 3 x 15 @ 17-18 RM, 1 min RI

Session 3: Lower Pull/Calves

(1.) Deadlifts - 5 x 5 @ 5-6 RM; 2 min RI
(2.) *calf work
(3.) Good Morning - 4 x 8 @ 10RM; 1-1.5 min RI
(4.) *calf work
(5.) Sumo Deadlifts - 3 x 15 @ 17-18RM; 1 min RI
(6.) *calf work

Session 4: Upper Vertical Push/Horizontal Pull

(1.) Hang Cleans (AND)
(2.) BB Bent-Over Rows - 5 x 5 @ 5-6RM; 2 min RI
(3.) BB Shoulder Press (AND)
(4.) DB Unilateral Bench Rows - 4 x 8 @ 10RM; 1-1.5 min RI
(5.) DB Military Press (AND)
(6.) BB Close-Grip V-Bar Rows - 3 x 15 @ 17-18 RM; 1 min RI

*I also perform high-intensity cardio 3-4 times a week for 15-45 mins

I haven't decided how I'm going to adjust the rep ranges/intensity over the program.

 

[Phineas]

Also, I forgot. My goals on this program:

*most people go by a 1RM or 3RM etc, but I'm more concerned with consistency...so I'll give my goals in terms of 5 x 5

Deadlift: increase 5 x 5 from 245-250 lb RM to 280lbs (this is my primary goal)

Squat: Increase 5 x 5 from 225-230 RM to 250

Dead Press: as I'm not using traditional bench, I'll go with my dead press numbers....my 5 x 5 on dead press is about 195 lbs...I would like this to increase to 225 lbs

Pullups: increase 5 x 5 from BW (195 lbs) + 35 lbs to BW + 55 lbs (on a simple 5RM I can use 45 lbs but for 5 sets the number goes down)

Hang Cleans: increase 5 x 5 from 120-125 lbs (depends on the day) to 155 lbs (ohhh I can do it!!)

Calves: increase from 16.5 inches pumped (16 relaxed) to 17 inches pumped