New to Anabolic Steroids - Advice needed!

[lionheart52]

20 year old male
209lbs
5'11''
Have been training in the gym for 4 years now but hindered by injuries.
Cycle goals are lean mass gain and fat loss.


I like to think that i have done my fair share of research on AAS but nothing is better than advice from people that have the wisdom and experience.

possible cycle:

Dianabol (oral) - 30mg/day
Winstrol (oral) - 25-50mg/day
6 week cycle
clenbuterol - 2 weeks on 2 weeks off: dosage dependant on bodies reaction to initial dosage of 10mcg but increase by 10mgc every day (not exceeding 80mcg though)
nolvadex - 20mg/day and used as pct
milkthistle - 525mg/day
alpha lipoic acid - 500mg
taken to keep liver healthy and minimise hepatoxicity due to oral cycle (i know this is bad but i really hate injections)

4000 calorie diet has been planned out (approx 360g protein, 460g carbs + 45g fat)
all multi-vitamins, omega-3 tabs etc will be taken.
high intake of water 4-6 litres/day
weight training program: day 1=Chest/biceps day 2=legs day 3= shoulders/triceps day 4= back.
Days will be based around compound exercises such as bench press,bent over barbell row, chins, military press, deadlifts, squats etc

Advice and info on the cycle would be much appreciated....
thanks

 

[Built]

Ooooh. Oral-only.

Can't you get test?

 

[lionheart52]

I can get it but i dont like the idea of injecting. Dont like needles you see.....

do you think i'll be ok when the right precautions are taken with an only-oral cycle?

 

[Built]

I don't like it. Not many will.

Seriously. If you don't like the idea of two needles a week, consider how much you'd enjoy being hospitalized for liver damage - all those blood tests, the IV... probably wouldn't train much during that time either.

Is any of this likely? No. You'll probably be fine, at least in the short run.

Doesn't mean it's a good idea. Seriously, it's just a needle. Not meaning to sound disrespectful, but for a big strong man to be fearful of a little tiny needle...

How about this. Have you bought your cycle yet? Can you get your hands on an ampoule of cyanocobalimin (B-12 injection) and some slin pins? It's OTC in Canada, might be in the UK also. I stick myself with a half cc or so every few weeks, into a delt. You really don't feel an insulin needle, they're very fine. This might get you past your fear.

Thoughts?

 

[lionheart52]

thanks for your thoughts

yh i suppose i shouldn't knock needles untill ive actually tried them.

this is exactly why i posted this thread, because i wasnt sure about the oral-only cycle.

i have bought only dianabol and nolvadex. i think i could man up n just use the normal needles but i will definately look into cyanocobalimin (B-12 injection) and slin pins and see if i can get hold of it.

what injectable would you recommend that has minimal side effects?

 

[Built]

All drugs are part poison. Do your research, make your decisions accordingly.

Most here will tell you to build your cycle around test as a base.

 

[StuckInBako]

I started my first cycle two weeks ago and i was expecting the injections to be very painful. I assure you they don't hurt that bad at all. I'm taking 50mg/day of test propinate and 200/mg twice per week of Test Cyp. I was doing my own injections on the second day. The injections themselves aren't as annoying as walking around with the feeling that both of your ass cheeks are badly bruised. But i've read it's more pronounced with test propinate


Cycle:
D-Bol 40 MG/Day Weeks 1-4
Test P 50 Mg/Day Weeks 2-4
Test C 400Mg/week weeks 3-12
Only reason i started the test late cause i was still waiting on order.

Day 1 178lbs
Day 7 190 lbs
Day 17 196

size and strength increases are coming along

 

[lionheart52]

thanks for the info

they seem to be some really good gains!

 

[kellyjelly]

no pain no gains...come on guys..you are not girls..you need to shot...i am girl and i like shots

 

[Shadowcam]

If your thinking of going down the AAS route you need to suck it up and inject otherwise just stay natural.

For your first run you should go Test E or C 8-10 weeks then start PCT 14-18 days after last shot.

Also you didnt mention your bodyfat percentage, its not a good idea to try and gain muscle and loose fat at the same time. Ideally you should prime your body below 10% BF before your cycle then once you start its full steam ahead, up the calories and training intensity.

 

[Shadowcam]

I started my first cycle two weeks ago and i was expecting the injections to be very painful. I assure you they don't hurt that bad at all. I'm taking 50mg/day of test propinate and 200/mg twice per week of Test Cyp. I was doing my own injections on the second day. The injections themselves aren't as annoying as walking around with the feeling that both of your ass cheeks are badly bruised. But i've read it's more pronounced with test propinate


Cycle:
D-Bol 40 MG/Day Weeks 1-4
Test P 50 Mg/Day Weeks 2-4
Test C 400Mg/week weeks 3-12
Only reason i started the test late cause i was still waiting on order.

Day 1 178lbs
Day 7 190 lbs
Day 17 196

size and strength increases are coming along

20 pounds in 2 1/2 weeks. You must be gaining alot of water or fat!

 

[bigboy2009]

Hey I'm planning on starting a cycle soon of decca and sust blen a 10 week cycle i wanted to know whats the best for anti estrogen should i purchase clomid, novedex, or can i take 6oxo from the suppliment store ? my main purpose of this cycle is to gain lean muscle mass i been working out for a year im at my peak i cant gain any more muscle im at 215lbs with little bit of a gut thanks for your help

 

[Built]

WOW. You maxed out your genetic potential in a year.

 

[mboley370]

Hey I'm planning on starting a cycle soon of decca and sust blen a 10 week cycle i wanted to know whats the best for anti estrogen should i purchase clomid, novedex, or can i take 6oxo from the suppliment store ? my main purpose of this cycle is to gain lean muscle mass i been working out for a year im at my peak i cant gain any more muscle im at 215lbs with little bit of a gut thanks for your help

It is not possible you are at your peak after 1 year. You might think so, but your not. You might need to change your workout a bit if you have stopped growing. I have several friends that are very big and can gain muscle after several years of lifting. What height are you?


Matt

 

[Shadowcam]

Hey I'm planning on starting a cycle soon of decca and sust blen a 10 week cycle i wanted to know whats the best for anti estrogen should i purchase clomid, novedex, or can i take 6oxo from the suppliment store ? my main purpose of this cycle is to gain lean muscle mass i been working out for a year im at my peak i cant gain any more muscle im at 215lbs with little bit of a gut thanks for your help

Nowhere near maxing out! you need more knowlege on training through plateaus and diet! cool your jets down and just forget about drugs for now.

 

[FishOrCutBait]

Nowhere near maxing out! you need more knowlege on training through plateaus and diet! cool your jets down and just forget about drugs for now.

 

[lionheart52]

If your thinking of going down the AAS route you need to suck it up and inject otherwise just stay natural.

For your first run you should go Test E or C 8-10 weeks then start PCT 14-18 days after last shot.

Also you didnt mention your bodyfat percentage, its not a good idea to try and gain muscle and loose fat at the same time. Ideally you should prime your body below 10% BF before your cycle then once you start its full steam ahead, up the calories and training intensity.

yh ive now been doin more research on test E and C but there seems to be more side effects with these types (not comparing it 2 the orals cz they are quite toxic). but i like the idea of 1 or 2 shots a week.

i dont actully know how much my bf% is. but i tend to put on fat really quickly.....n thats why i was goin to take clenbuterol with AAS.

so a cycle of just test is recommended?

 

[Built]

You think clen is how you mitigate fat gains on a cycle?

You'll be eating at a surplus, right?

 

[lionheart52]

You think clen is how you mitigate fat gains on a cycle?

You'll be eating at a surplus, right?

why is that not the right thing 2 do?
i was trying 2 minimize fat gains while on a surplus diet by using clen.
and do HIT cardio 2.

in terms of liver toxicity, wats the difference between taking an oral on its own and taking it with an injectable?

 

[sendit08]

why is that not the right thing 2 do?
i was trying 2 minimize fat gains while on a surplus diet by using clen.
and do HIT cardio 2.

in terms of liver toxicity, wats the difference between taking an oral on its own and taking it with an injectable?

Hiit cardio + Clen is a dangerous combination, be sure to CLOSELY monitor your heart rate !!!

 

[lionheart52]

would you recommend me doin less cardio as possible because i heard clen is strong enough 2 burn fat on its own.

 

[sendit08]

would you recommend me doin less cardio as possible because i heard clen is strong enough 2 burn fat on its own.

Some people say its strong... some people say its week... depends on how YOUR body reacts to it. If you have a history of BP problems dont touch it.
I personally run clen at 200mcg with the proper support. I switch from Hiit to SPC when i am on clen and its because of this that rarely ever use clen. I much prefer Hiit overr Stead Pace. Its shorter and the time seems to go buy quicker.
I also would never run clen if I was bulking because it could be catabolic, especially when taken with T3.
From reading your posts my main piece of advice to you would be to decide wether you want to lose fat OR gain muscle. Pick ONE and go with it.
If you want to loose fat you may have to take a hit on your LBM (not saying you shouldnt train and keep protein intake up to protect this)
If you want to build muscle you will most likely gain fat as well.
Unless you are some sort of genetic freak, which its obvious your not or you wouldnt be interested in AS at this age, you will have to weigh out the pros and cons of both options, choose one and stick to that until you reach your goal.

 

[Shadowcam]

yh ive now been doin more research on test E and C but there seems to be more side effects with these types (not comparing it 2 the orals cz they are quite toxic). but i like the idea of 1 or 2 shots a week.

i dont actully know how much my bf% is. but i tend to put on fat really quickly.....n thats why i was goin to take clenbuterol with AAS.

so a cycle of just test is recommended?

Yes, just Test keep it simple. I would stay away from clen and concentrate on diet and cardio to keep bodyfat in check.

Correct me if Im wrong but Im guessing your bodyfat is fairly high, if thats the case I would advise you to lean out before you touch any gear otherwise side effects will be more apparent and lean muscle gains will be less, your body will be much more anabolic at a low BF%. If your not sure what your BF is then just keep cutting till you have visible abs which should be under 10%.

 

[Pirate!]

Clen will sabatoge muscle gains like nothing else.

 

[bigboy2009]

my height is 6', well then can you recommend a different training idea's ? and im on a low carb high protein diet i do cardio for an hour then i work out for hour and half 2 muscles a day 5 days a week and i do cardio 7 days a week

 

[Shadowcam]

my height is 6', well then can you recommend a different training idea's ? and im on a low carb high protein diet i do cardio for an hour then i work out for hour and half 2 muscles a day 5 days a week and i do cardio 7 days a week

your doing the opposite of what you should be doing if your trying to gain mass. For starters you need to be in a calorie surplus to add bodyweight. Your doing way to much cardio and training to give you body a chance to recover and grow.

First I reckon you should take 1-2 weeks off any exercise to let your body recover from overtraining which is what you have been doing.

Then start a weight training program of 3-4 days a week, each session should take no longer than an hour, train each bodypart once a week. You dont need many sets or exercises just pick 2 or 3 exercises for smaller bodyparts and 3 or 4 for larger bodyparts warmup and do couple of work sets for each exercise to complete failer(has to be intense) and aim for strength gains with good form.

Cardio about 3 times a week 20-30 mins a session either after your weight session or on days your not training with weights.

For diet you need to up your carbs and fats to give you energy for lifting heavier weights. I recomend eating minimum of 6 meals a day. Remember food is just as important as training and you need plenty of rest also. Maybe if you post details of your diet Im sure someone will help you out.

 

[lionheart52]

Correct me if Im wrong but Im guessing your bodyfat is fairly high, if thats the case I would advise you to lean out before you touch any gear otherwise side effects will be more apparent and lean muscle gains will be less, your body will be much more anabolic at a low BF%. If your not sure what your BF is then just keep cutting till you have visible abs which should be under 10%.

yh i would say my body fat is moderatly high and im sure visible abs are a long way away lol!

i am really stuck between wat to do in terms of mass gain or cutting.....

do you think i should lean out first either way; if do take AAS or even if i decide to do it naturally?

Thanks for all the info!

 

[sendit08]

yh i would say my body fat is moderatly high and im sure visible abs are a long way away lol!

i am really stuck between wat to do in terms of mass gain or cutting.....

do you think i should lean out first either way; if do take AAS or even if i decide to do it naturally?

Thanks for all the info!

I have heard this question a million times in a million different ways but the I always only here one thing. " I am not motivated, and kind of lazy". AS IS NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR HARD WORK AND A DISCIPLINED TRAINNING AND DIET REGIMENT!!!!!! It sounds like you have never chosen 1 goal and stuck to it. Do this for a couple of years straight and then think about AS.
I think it is a general misconception that AS make everything easier...
If I had a nickel for all the people I know that gained 30 pounds on AS then lost it all a month later I would be a rich man

 

[StuckInBako]

If I had a nickel for all the people I know that gained 30 pounds on AS then lost it all a month later I would be a rich man

Hopefully i don't add another nickle to your piggy bank

 

[Shadowcam]

yh i would say my body fat is moderatly high and im sure visible abs are a long way away lol!

i am really stuck between wat to do in terms of mass gain or cutting.....

do you think i should lean out first either way; if do take AAS or even if i decide to do it naturally?

Thanks for all the info!

If I were you I would devote the next 2-3 months cutting NATURALLY or longer if you need it and once your in good shape ie visible abs and definition then start a bulking cycle of Test if you still want to go down that route. The lower your BF is the better your gains will be and sides will be minimised. Never start a cycle at a high BF%.