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Obama = Con

No, Obama is much more, he acts and speaks like a leader, he charismatic, speaks well, is influential, likable, and all of that is very important. Bush is no leader, I am sure he is intelligent despite how inarticulate he is, but he lacks leadership qualities, that is not all he lacks, but why beat a dead horse.

Obama is a politician and will do what politicians from his party have been doing. There will be nothing new or special. What he will do is to continue to pander to the chewies and open our borders.

That is what he stands for.

It's cute that you believe otherwise, just make sure not to look behind the curtain.
 
I figure that either way I'll win. If McCain wins, we'll have another Republican president and I can laugh at the Dems. If Obama wins (or even Hitlery), he'll do nothing of value (for various reasons) and I'll get to laugh at the Dems.

It's a win-win for me.

what do you think that McCain will do differently than Bush if he were elected?
 
That whole thing with Obama not wearing the pin was very indicitive of his character. He's willing to wear the turbin "out of respect for his host", but he won't wear an American flage for his own country?

:roflmao:

Why, are there laws dictating that an American can only be "patriotic" if they wear a flag lapel pin? Knowing the GOP, there is probably an official one, too....made in China.

It sends a bad message.. this guy is bad news. I honestly believe he is Anti-American & hope it will become more evident. His wife is helping, so is his church :)


Oh yes - any American who doesn't run as a "conservative" is "anti-American.":roflmao:
 
Obama is a politician and will do what politicians from his party have been doing. There will be nothing new or special. What he will do is to continue to pander to the chewies and open our borders.

That is what he stands for.

It's cute that you believe otherwise, just make sure not to look behind the curtain.

it's cute that you defended Bush for all of these years. :kiss:
 
Obama is a politician and will do what politicians from his party have been doing. There will be nothing new or special. What he will do is to continue to pander to the chewies and open our borders.

That is what he stands for.

:roflmao: Yep - he'll be just like Bush.

It's cute that you believe otherwise, just make sure not to look behind the curtain.

Conservatives always hyperventilate when any candidate suggests spending American tax money on. . . . . America.
 
yeah, sorry but effective communication is a very important quality in a leader.

:lol:

You need to watch more of Chris Rock.

"... he speaks so well. He's so well spoken. He speaks so well. 'Speaks so well' is not a compliment!!! 'Speaks so well' is something you say about retarded people who can talk!" - Chris Rock talking about the perception of Colin Powell.
 
Oh yes - any American who doesn't run as a "conservative" is "anti-American.":roflmao:

American is more than a nationality, it is an ideology. Freedom from needless government intervention, a government that serves the people, true justice for all, checks against the powers of any one segment of the government.

It is that and more. So when people say someone is being un-American for not wearing a flag, I say that person is a moron and is focusing on unimportant details.

Those beliefs are what I look for in a candidate, and not a single one embodies them save for RP. Unfortunately in the present, being a patriotic American is viewed as being un-American :wits:
 
Oh yes - any American who doesn't run as a "conservative" is "anti-American.":roflmao:

I don't care what he wears. again, he's the one that made it an issue. he was trying to make a statement. that's the part that pisses me off. Did you just skip right over that?

We send our soldiers into battle with a flag on their uniform & he decides to make that a statement? in my book, that's an asshole move, and again, indicitive.
 
So when people say someone is being un-American for not wearing a flag, I say that person is a moron and is focusing on unimportant details.

Do I really need to spell out everything I say?
 
American is more than a nationality, it is an ideology. Freedom from needless government intervention, a government that serves the people, true justice for all, checks against the powers of any one segment of the government.

It is that and more. So when people say someone is being un-American for not wearing a flag, I say that person is a moron and is focusing on unimportant details.

Those beliefs are what I look for in a candidate, and not a single one embodies them save for RP. Unfortunately in the present, being a patriotic American is viewed as being un-American :wits:

While I'm not a supporter of Ron Paul's candidacy, I was appalled that he was silenced and censored so much during Republican debates. . .and one network refused to even include him in New Hampshire. The American people should have the right to expect our media, particularly those companies granted a license to use the public airwaves, grant all candidates who have met the filing qualifications a chance to make their case. I didn't think most Americans ever had any opportunity to get much information about Paul. In the debates he was participating in, he was regularly cut off and passed over for the more "favored" candidates, even before any voting.

We deserved to hear what he had to say.
 
I don't care what he wears. again, he's the one that made it an issue. he was trying to make a statement. that's the part that pisses me off. Did you just skip right over that?


We send our soldiers into battle with a flag on their uniform & he decides to make that a statement? in my book, that's an asshole move, and again, indicitive.

I think our soldiers would have been much happier going into battle with decent body armor and helmets.

Again - there is no tradition or custom requiring any American to wear some flag lapel pin. Just because conservatives view image as more important than substance doesn't mean that the American people agree with that assessment. And I think that was Obama's statement, wasn't it? That he wanted to let his patriotism speak for itself in his words and ideas. How frightening!

So it becomes this....intentional "asshole" move because...not wearing a flag lapel pin means that he must not support the soldiers, who happen to wear a cloth flag on their uniforms.

OMG. . .conservative meltdown. :roflmao:
 
I think our soldiers would have been much happier going into battle with decent body armor and helmets.

Again - there is no tradition or custom requiring any American to wear some flag lapel pin. Just because conservatives view image as more important than substance doesn't mean that the American people agree with that assessment. And I think that was Obama's statement, wasn't it? That he wanted to let his patriotism speak for itself in his words and ideas. How frightening!

So it becomes this....intentional "asshole" move because...not wearing a flag lapel pin means that he must not support the soldiers, who happen to wear a cloth flag on their uniforms.

OMG. . .conservative meltdown. :roflmao:

Many people see it as a gesture. To make it an issue (where it clearly would be) I think is just a stupid move & I question the motive.

I guess we'll just disagree on the topic (too).
 
Just throwing two things out there, both related to this video:
abc_obama_anthem_071022a.flv - Video - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

1. As someone pointed out earlier, Obama is the only one singing the national anthem while on stage. If you wanted symbolism, I think that is a much more powerful one than wearing a pin.

2. WILL PEOPLE STOP FUCKING DOING CRAZY SHIT WITH THE ANTHEM. I can't emphasize enough how much this pisses me off. Sing it like it is meant to be sung, as a group of Americans; don't sing it like some cracked up whore.
 
yes, a quality... not THE quality.

that is why I listed several leadership qualities that are important, all of which Obama possesses and Bush does not.

what exactly do you think a good leader does?
 
:lol:

You need to watch more of Chris Rock.

"... he speaks so well. He's so well spoken. He speaks so well. 'Speaks so well' is not a compliment!!! 'Speaks so well' is something you say about retarded people who can talk!" - Chris Rock talking about the perception of Colin Powell.

no, I don't think he is that funny and he hates white people, why would you like him?
 
And I'll be happy to point out the same about you if we're unlucky enough to get Obama as a president. I'll have a chewie deliver the letter to you.

yeah but the difference is if Obama starts doing stupid irresponsible shit like Bush did and continues to do, I will not defend and support Obama any longer, as I said I don't subscribe to any political party therefore I don't defend leaders based on theirs.
 
yeah but the difference is if Obama starts doing stupid irresponsible shit like Bush did and continues to do, I will not defend and support Obama any longer, as I said I don't subscribe to any political party therefore I don't defend leaders based on theirs.

Okay.
 
I agree with that, but I don't think Obama can pull it off. In order to begin to reverse some of the damage, we would need to have some massive reforms of laws, Obama would need to rescind almost every single signing statement made by Bush (which he SHOULD DO), and most of all he would need to cut spending drastically.

With all of the new programs that Obama wants to implement, I can't see him spending much less, if any, than Bush is right now.

ending the war alone is going to save billions (it's running about $300 million per day, but hey we're going to change them Iaqi's to think like us!), but yes it will probably take 8 years or more to repair his damage.
 
What $1.2 Trillion Can Buy
By DAVID LEONHARDT
Published: January 17, 2007

The human mind isn’t very well equipped to make sense of a figure like $1.2 trillion. We don’t deal with a trillion of anything in our daily lives, and so when we come across such a big number, it is hard to distinguish it from any other big number. Millions, billions, a trillion — they all start to sound the same.

The way to come to grips with $1.2 trillion is to forget about the number itself and think instead about what you could buy with the money. When you do that, a trillion stops sounding anything like millions or billions.

For starters, $1.2 trillion would pay for an unprecedented public health campaign — a doubling of cancer research funding, treatment for every American whose diabetes or heart disease is now going unmanaged and a global immunization campaign to save millions of children’s lives.

Combined, the cost of running those programs for a decade wouldn’t use up even half our money pot. So we could then turn to poverty and education, starting with universal preschool for every 3- and 4-year-old child across the country. The city of New Orleans could also receive a huge increase in reconstruction funds.

The final big chunk of the money could go to national security. The recommendations of the 9/11 Commission that have not been put in place — better baggage and cargo screening, stronger measures against nuclear proliferation — could be enacted. Financing for the war in Afghanistan could be increased to beat back the Taliban’s recent gains, and a peacekeeping force could put a stop to the genocide in Darfur.

All that would be one way to spend $1.2 trillion. Here would be another:

The war in Iraq.

In the days before the war almost five years ago, the Pentagon estimated that it would cost about $50 billion. Democratic staff members in Congress largely agreed. Lawrence Lindsey, a White House economic adviser, was a bit more realistic, predicting that the cost could go as high as $200 billion, but President Bush fired him in part for saying so.

These estimates probably would have turned out to be too optimistic even if the war had gone well. Throughout history, people have typically underestimated the cost of war, as William Nordhaus, a Yale economist, has pointed out.

But the deteriorating situation in Iraq has caused the initial predictions to be off the mark by a scale that is difficult to fathom. The operation itself — the helicopters, the tanks, the fuel needed to run them, the combat pay for enlisted troops, the salaries of reservists and contractors, the rebuilding of Iraq — is costing more than $300 million a day, estimates Scott Wallsten, an economist in Washington.

That translates into a couple of billion dollars a week and, over the full course of the war, an eventual total of $700 billion in direct spending.

The two best-known analyses of the war’s costs agree on this figure, but they diverge from there. Linda Bilmes, at the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard, and Joseph Stiglitz, a Nobel laureate and former Clinton administration adviser, put a total price tag of more than $2 trillion on the war. They include a number of indirect costs, like the economic stimulus that the war funds would have provided if they had been spent in this country.

Mr. Wallsten, who worked with Katrina Kosec, another economist, argues for a figure closer to $1 trillion in today’s dollars. My own estimate falls on the conservative side, largely because it focuses on the actual money that Americans would have been able to spend in the absence of a war. I didn’t even attempt to put a monetary value on the more than 3,000 American deaths in the war.

Besides the direct military spending, I’m including the gas tax that the war has effectively imposed on American families (to the benefit of oil-producing countries like Iran, Russia and Saudi Arabia). At the start of 2003, a barrel of oil was selling for $30. Since then, the average price has been about $50. Attributing even $5 of this difference to the conflict adds another $150 billion to the war’s price tag, Ms. Bilmes and Mr. Stiglitz say.

The war has also guaranteed some big future expenses. Replacing the hardware used in Iraq and otherwise getting the United States military back into its prewar fighting shape could cost $100 billion. And if this war’s veterans receive disability payments and medical care at the same rate as veterans of the first gulf war, their health costs will add up to $250 billion. If the disability rate matches Vietnam’s, the number climbs higher. Either way, Ms. Bilmes says, “It’s like a miniature Medicare.”

In economic terms, you can think of these medical costs as the difference between how productive the soldiers would have been as, say, computer programmers or firefighters and how productive they will be as wounded veterans. In human terms, you can think of soldiers like Jason Poole, a young corporal profiled in The New York Times last year. Before the war, he had planned to be a teacher. After being hit by a roadside bomb in 2004, he spent hundreds of hours learning to walk and talk again, and he now splits his time between a community college and a hospital in Northern California.

Whatever number you use for the war’s total cost, it will tower over costs that normally seem prohibitive. Right now, including everything, the war is costing about $200 billion a year.

Treating heart disease and diabetes, by contrast, would probably cost about $50 billion a year. The remaining 9/11 Commission recommendations — held up in Congress partly because of their cost — might cost somewhat less. Universal preschool would be $35 billion. In Afghanistan, $10 billion could make a real difference. At the National Cancer Institute, annual budget is about $6 billion.

“This war has skewed our thinking about resources,” said Mr. Wallsten, a senior fellow at the Progress and Freedom Foundation, a conservative-leaning research group. “In the context of the war, $20 billion is nothing.”

As it happens, $20 billion is not a bad ballpark estimate for the added cost of Mr. Bush’s planned surge in troops. By itself, of course, that price tag doesn’t mean the surge is a bad idea. If it offers the best chance to stabilize Iraq, then it may well be the right option.

But the standard shouldn’t simply be whether a surge is better than the most popular alternative — a far-less-expensive political strategy that includes getting tough with the Iraqi government. The standard should be whether the surge would be better than the political strategy plus whatever else might be accomplished with the $20 billion.

This time, it would be nice to have that discussion before the troops reach Iraq.
 
ending the war alone is going to save billions (it's running about $300 million per day, but hey we're going to change them Iaqi's to think like us!), but yes it will probably take 8 years or more to repair his damage.

Maybe I'm overestimating the cost of some of his programs then, I don't really know. All I know is that this country doesn't have the money for universal healthcare right now, we are quite literally bankrupt.
 
He inspires fools who are too lazy to research the guy.

One large demographic that supports him are white educated, white male, so bad point.

Go look at the two videos I posted earlier in this topic.. It's indictive of 80% of his support, I guarantee you.


80%? File this under the 'pulling numbers out of your ass catagory.'

Obama surged & hasn't undergone any scrutiny.


On the contrary, he endures quite a bit of scruitiny, and your following sentence backs that up when you mentioned his appearence. His race, looks, and politics are all undergoing attacks and scruitiny.
 
No. Only extreme liberals will.. not exactly a Republican stronghold or a threat anyway.

You do realize there are extremes on both sides, right?

I can name quite a number of groups of people who are to the left of your so called "extreme" liberals. How many can you name that are to the right of the current Neo-Conservative administration? 1? None?
 
Iraq would still look the same with Saddam in power & threatening us. I know you may like that, but the majority of people that you like to speak for won't. A democratic Iraq is a pretty big deal.

Ironically there would be less dead people in Iraq with Saddam still in power. Now we know unequivicobly that he had no weapons that would threaten us. So the situation would actually be better, albeit not ideal.

Define 'democratic Iraq.' One that had democracy forced on it? Or the current administration running the country vicariously through a puppet government? Do you understand the dynamics of what just happened in that country? Do you know there are three warring tribes, and the country is sorrounded by enimies, and theocracries that all have their own interests?

Exactly how simple do you think it is?
 
Just throwing two things out there, both related to this video:
abc_obama_anthem_071022a.flv - Video - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

1. As someone pointed out earlier, Obama is the only one singing the national anthem while on stage. If you wanted symbolism, I think that is a much more powerful one than wearing a pin.

I'm actually surprised you posted that video. Didn't you hear all the complaints about him being the only one with his hand not on his heart, honoring our flag? Kind of shoots down your argument.. :lol:

And Hillary did sing before.. we all know how that turned out :rofl:
 
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