Obama = Con

[Dale Mabry]

I'm actually surprised you posted that video. Didn't you hear all the complaints about him being the only one with his hand not on his heart, honoring our flag? Kind of shoots down your argument..

And Hillary did sing before.. we all know how that turned out

Who puts their hand on their heart during the anthem? That shit's done during the pledge.

 

[BigDyl]

I figure that either way I'll win. If McCain wins, we'll have another Republican president and I can laugh at the Dems. If Obama wins (or even Hitlery), he'll do nothing of value (for various reasons) and I'll get to laugh at the Dems.

It's a win-win for me.

That's because republicans are expected to fuck up, and democrats aren't? At least that's how you're portraying it. And in either case you laugh at other peoples misery? Wow, you're a nice guy.

 

[busyLivin]

that is why I listed several leadership qualities that are important, all of which Obama possesses and Bush does not.

you posted personality traits:

acts and speaks like a leader,
charismatic,
speaks well,
influential,
likable

Not one mention of what makes him a good president, or one accomplishment which would make him worthy.

A president, especially in these times, has to be a hell of a lot more than likeable. His foreign policy is nothing less than scary. Unconditional talks with Iran & Cuba? Give me a break... even Hillary knows better than that.

He's inexperienced & grossly arrogant.

 

[Arnold]

Didn't you hear all the complaints about him being the only one with his hand not on his heart, honoring our flag?

I don't either, I don't need to "honor a flag", what does that really mean anyway? As far as I am concerned nothing.

The way in which you measure one's patriotism is silly.

 

[busyLivin]

Who puts their hand on their heart during the anthem? That shit's done during the pledge.

I thought it was a stupid argument myself.. just was surprised he'd bring that video up as a defense of his patriotism after all the shit he caught for it...

 

[Arnold]

Who puts their hand on their heart during the anthem? That shit's done during the pledge.

good point! although I don't do that either.

 

[busyLivin]

I don't either, I don't need to "honor a flag", what does that really mean anyway? As far as I am concerned nothing.

The way in which you measure one's patriotism is silly.

see previous post But, yes I do think we should honor the flag.

 

[BigDyl]

I don't either, I don't need to "honor a flag", what does that really mean anyway? As far as I am concerned nothing.

The way in which you measure one's patriotism is silly.

Exactly.

Bush can fuck up, but as long as he wears a pin, he's invulnerable.

If obama cleans up his mess, but doesn't wear a pin, he's a pariah.

 

[BigDyl]

see previous post But, yes I do think we should honor the flag.

The flag is a symbol, and patriotism is an idea (doing what's in the best interest for your country). It's easy to confuse the two....

 

[DOMS]

You do realize there are extremes on both sides, right?

I doubt that you do.

 

[Arnold]

you posted personality traits:

acts and speaks like a leader,
charismatic,
speaks well,
influential,
likable

Not one mention of what makes him a good president, or one accomplishment which would make him worthy.

A president, especially in these times, has to be a hell of a lot more than likeable. His foreign policy is nothing less than scary. Unconditional talks with Iran & Cuba? Give me a break... even Hillary knows better than that.

He's inexperienced & grossly arrogant.

here, read all about him: Barack Obama - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[BigDyl]

I doubt that you do.

I'll 'extreme' you.

 

[Arnold]

But, yes I do think we should honor the flag.

"honor the flag" ...again I ask you what exactly does that mean?

 

[DOMS]

That's because republicans are expected to fuck up, and democrats aren't? At least that's how you're portraying it. And in either case you laugh at other peoples misery? Wow, you're a nice guy.

As always, you amuse me.

No, I fully expect the Dem candidate to fuck up. It'll be the look on your (and Prince's) face that will be unexpected. Well, to you, anyway.

People's misery? There will be a lot of people in this country in the "not miserable" group if McCain wins. Which will includes me.

 

[DOMS]

Who puts their hand on their heart during the anthem?

A lot of people. Never been to a baseball game?

 

[DOMS]

I'll 'extreme' you.

KY?

 

[danzik17]

I thought it was a stupid argument myself.. just was surprised he'd bring that video up as a defense of his patriotism after all the shit he caught for it...

I am not defending his patriotism. I do not consider him patriotic due to his support of the ironically named Patriot Act. While it's true he spoke out against it to a degree, his actions tell a different story.

I am simply pointing out the idiocy in judging a person's patriotism or stance on an issue based on a freaking pin, whether that person sung, put his or her hand on the heart during the anthem, etc.

 

[busyLivin]

"honor the flag" ...again I ask you what exactly does that mean?

The flag is a symbol of our country. Do I think it's "necessary" for Obama to wear it? No. Do I think it's a nice gesture? Yes.

The point is, he deliberately took it off to make a statement that I just do not understand. He said he would show his patriotism in "other ways." In what way would that be? Regardless, people died carrying the flag into war & he can't be bothered to show a little respect by wearing it? That has to be the subject of his statement?

It sends a bad message. No, I don't condemn him for it, I just think it's an indictation of his arrogance & lack of respect for American traditions & what they mean.

Honoring the flag is honoring what it took to get this country. Take off your hat, bow your head & thank those who died giving it to us. Maybe that's a little dramatic to some, but isn't that the idea?

That's the problem with the youth of America: they've had it so incredibly good their entire lives that they have no concept of how bad it could be. They don't appreciate how great this country is & they are going to sacrifice it. One week under Saddam & they would all be whistling another tune.

 

[Big Smoothy]

and the way the GWB dodged the war was "American"? he has no problem starting a useless war and getting thousands killed for nothing, but he did not have the balls to join the real military and go to war himself.

Yes, GWB dodged the draft, and played the National Guard card. Those with connections get to do that.

So, why would anyone even make note of Obama's not wearing the American flag pin?

When did this phony display of fake patriotism beginning by politicians wearing flag pins on their jackets?

I don't remember this being done in the 1990s or 1980s.


Nation-state flags and flag symbols have nothing to do with patriotism.

 

[busyLivin]

I am simply pointing out the idiocy in judging a person's patriotism or stance on an issue based on a freaking pin, whether that person sung, put his or her hand on the heart during the anthem, etc.

I've said it several times now. It's not about the fricking pin! AHHH!

 

[Big Smoothy]

Unconditional talks with Iran & Cuba? Give me a break... even Hillary knows better than that.

Why does Hillary play so tough on Cuba?

Because they are 2 million Cuban voters in Florida and Florida is a pivotal state in this election. Politicians have to cater to anti-Castro crowd in SoFL.

Cuba? Who cares. Not a threat.

We could be investing there now, like Europe and Canada.

Iran? Who cares. A threat to.....USrael? No.

 

[danzik17]

I'm just going based off of your previous posts here relating to symbolism. Just a few posts up, you mentioned how honoring the flag is to honor America; I disagree completely. In order to honor the men and women who have given their lives for America, we should be fighting to preserve the liberties and rights that they died to preserve.

The way in which we completely disregard the Constitution, the rule of law, and our essential liberties is the ultimate slap in the face to those who gave their lives; not honoring a symbolic flag by taking off a pin minuscule in comparison. Again, Obama is not a patriot due to his actions and the votes he has cast, not due to any silly symbols.

 

[Big Smoothy]

The way in which we completely disregard the Constitution, the rule of law, and our essential liberties is the ultimate slap in the face to those who gave their lives; not honoring a symbolic flag by taking off a pin minuscule in comparison. Again, Obama is not a patriot due to his actions and the votes he has cast, not due to any silly symbols.

I believe that people should not wear their patriotism on their sleeves, like some kind of fashion statement. It's phony, also.

The Constitution is what matters.

And remember, the Americans that have died have mostly died in foreign countries. Did the represent the US flag? Or did they represent US interests?

Except for the Union soldiers of the Civil War.

 

[lucifuge]

I disagree In order to honor the men and women who have given their lives for America, we should be fighting to preserve the liberties and rights that they died to preserve.

The way in which we completely disregard the Constitution, the rule of law, and our essential liberties is the ultimate slap in the face to those who gave their lives; not honoring a symbolic flag by taking off a pin minuscule in comparison. Again, Obama is not a patriot due to his actions and the votes he has cast

I agree with this, however, I do not view the American Flag as a silly symbol.

 

[Big Smoothy]

I agree with this, however, I do not view the American Flag as a silly symbol.

I don't think it's a silly symbol either - it's just used as a symbol by silly people.

 

[lucifuge]

I don't think it's a silly symbol either - it's just used as a symbol by silly people.

Admittedly, alot of the people who 'rally' around it are jack fuck retards. It's a sad fact, but a fact none the less.

 

[Big Smoothy]

Admittedly, alot of the people who 'rally' around it are jack fuck retards. It's a sad fact, but a fact none the less.

Good, we agree.

Same goes for other shallow, fake attempts, by people to pretend they are "patriotic."

The Constitution, and knowing one's nation's history is what's important, IMO.

 

[danzik17]

I agree with this, however, I do not view the American Flag as a silly symbol.

I was referring to Obama taking the pin off, not the flag itself. However on the list of things a true patriot honors, the flag is no where near the top imo.

 

[lucifuge]

The Constitution is the single most important thing about this country.
That being said, I do not agree with the concept of 'interpreting' the Constitution. There is nothing to be interpreted. Leave it the hell alone and just follow it.
I've said for years that if the founding fathers would've had ANY idea how fucked up this country and it's political system would become, they would have just shut the fuck up and went back to England.

 

[lucifuge]

I was referring to Obama taking the pin off, not the flag itself. However on the list of things a true patriot honors, the flag is no where near the top imo.

agreed
however, I also understand the point busylivin's trying to make on the subject.
Obama did it to deliberately draw attention to it. It doesn't make any sense to me either.