Obama healthcare plan omits public option

[DOMS]

Kelju has a point in that most of the medicare expenses are spent during the last few months of a person's life and it may not have necessarily affected their outcome.( look at the dartmouth atlas study) Thus, should doctors like those in Denmark be able to judge when intensive efforts will be futile and deny extreme life sustainng measures even when the family demands it? Right now if a 95 year old with emphysema wants to be put on a ventilator to prolong his life maybe another 2 weeks I can't deny him or her.

At the same time, a end stage cancer patient may want everything done so they can live another three months so they can see their daughter give birth to their new grandson? Who am I to deny that patient those last precious three months?

How about something a bit easier? How about letting patients that want to die, die? I don't understand that. If someone is in so much, and the prognosis isn't good, and they want to die, why can't they?

That alone would not only lower the costs of medicine, but, much more importantly, the amount of suffering.

 

[bandaidwoman]

How about something a bit easier? How about letting patients that want to die, die? I don't understand that. If someone is in so much, and the prognosis isn't good, and they want to die, why can't they?

That alone would not only lower the costs of medicine, but, much more importantly, the amount of suffering.

They can, they make themselves do not resusicate or a living will that says no measures like artificial feeding etc and we don't give them any iv fluids or anything at all, call hospice and let them die. The problem comes when the patient comes in delerius or unconscious, has an endstage disease, and has no living will or DNR and some crazy family member wants everything done for them. As chief of medicine part of my job at the hospital is to convince family members to "let go" but you would be surprised how many families are very resistiant. .

I'll tell you which family members are the worst, not the child or family member who has been taking care of the deathly ill patient, wiping their ass, changing diapers, cleaning up vomit etc etc, it's the family member that never comes to the doctors office with their parents or stays with them at night when they are sick, they feel guilty or something and feel they have to make up for their neglect. I have siblings fighting it out about what their mother wants or wanted, legally, I have to over treat until they come to a decision. The one who has been taking care of them realizes what a pathetic existance they have had while the sibling that lived 1000 miles away has absolutely no clue what quality of life their parent has had for the last six months.

 

[DOMS]

They can, they make themselves do not resusicate or a living will that says no measures like artificial feeding etc and we don't give them any iv fluids or anything at all, call hospice and let them die. The problem comes when the patient comes in delerius or unconscious, has an endstage disease, and has no living will or DNR and some crazy family member wants everything done for them. As chief of medicine part of my job at the hospital is to convince family members to "let go" but you would be surprised how many families are very resistiant.

I was talking about someone that's, for example, dying of inoperable cancer. Their life has been reduced to either pain-filled days or a drug induced haze, and generally a life without dignity. They should be able to ask for voluntary euthanasia.

I'll tell you which family members are the worst, not the child or family member who has been taking care of the deathly ill patient, wiping their ass, changing diapers, cleaning up vomit etc etc, it's the family member that never comes to the doctors office with their parents or stays with them at night when they are sick, they feel guilty or something and feel they have to make up for their neglect. I have siblings fighting it out about what their mother wants or wanted, legally, I have to over treat until they come to a decision. The one who has been taking care of them realizes what a pathetic existance they have had while the sibling that lived 1000 miles away has absolutely no clue what quality of life their parent has had for the last six months.

I saw this exact scenario played out with a close family. One son was there every day and the other lived miles away, but tried to make the calls. He then arrives at the last minute to "show" how much he cared.

 

[bandaidwoman]

I was talking about someone that's, for example, dying of inoperable cancer. Their life has been reduced to either pain-filled days or a drug induced haze, and generally a life without dignity. They should be able to ask for voluntary euthanasia.
.

I totally agree. I admired Kavorkian because he really made this issue a front and cover topic, it's not going away.

I am anonymous so I can safely tell you that if you watched last week's episode of House where Wilson the oncologist was going to give a talk "Euthanasia" we all do it.......and House knocks him out so he won't destroy his career... well, he is right. Enough said, just watch the episode.

 

[GearsMcGilf]

single payer is the solution with free competition for secondary insurance.

as surgeon general everitt koop stated, by saving 400 billion a year in just paperwork alone, we could subsidize every citizen's health care.

It's insane that my four doc practice has 45 employees ( billers, coders, verifiers, two office managers, people just to do precerts, prior auths, etc. etc.) 6 check in check out people to verify insurance and their benefits ( where I can send labs to , quest, lab corp etc and where i can get a radilogical study, wellpoint hospitals or not etc.). 10 person telephone consoul to field phone calls not just from patients but from insurance companies etc.

It's insane and unsustainable.

Yes, single payer works so well in Canada and Europe. Cant't wait till we get it here. Why then do so many Canadians who can afford the cost, but can not afford to wait in line for months to receive a life saving procedure, use US hospitals as their "secondary" insurance?

The clerical work involved in healthcare doesn't go away under a single payer system. It just gets handed over to the govt so they can mismanage it like they do everything else.

I've had many friends who have experience with the wonders of a single payer system. If you have a cold or need a routine doc visit, it's fine. If you're over age 55 or so and need a costly life saving procedure, better start praying. Also, in a shitty economy, when tax revenues are down, get ready for even further rationing. Then again, at least its fair. The rich get the same substandard care as the poor. As long as everything's equal, that's all that really matters.

 

[bandaidwoman]

Yes, single payer works so well in Canada and Europe. Cant't wait till we get it here. Why then do so many Canadians who can afford the cost, but can not afford to wait in line for months to receive a life saving procedure, use US hospitals as their "secondary" insurance?

The clerical work involved in healthcare doesn't go away under a single payer system. It just gets handed over to the govt so they can mismanage it like they do everything else.

I've had many friends who have experience with the wonders of a single payer system. If you have a cold or need a routine doc visit, it's fine. If you're over age 55 or so and need a costly life saving procedure, better start praying. Also, in a shitty economy, when tax revenues are down, get ready for even further rationing. Then again, at least its fair. The rich get the same substandard care as the poor. As long as everything's equal, that's all that really matters.

single payer is not socialized medicine.

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2005/february/medicare_for_all_is_.php

Medicare is single payer for the elderly. They pay me within two weeks of filing a claim. The average private insurance 3 months.

I can order an MRI, cat scan pet scan etc. without beggin a high school graduate for prior authorization or precertification. Blue cross HMO takes sometimes an average 6 months to obtain a precert for an MRI...

Medicare pays me less but I only have to hire one coder and biller with benefits ( health insurance, disability, workmanscomp, etc.)

I have an army of coders and billers for the private insurance. I use up to 1/3 of what I collect from the private insureres to pay my personell.

Who is more inefficient?

seriously, you need to know the differance between single payer and socialized. My medicare patients can choose any facility they want to go to for care, harvard, johns hopkins etc. You cant do that in a socialized network.


as for rationing many of my private insurers "rescind" my patients with lethal diagnosis
I have to get medicare/ medicaid to pay for their life saving treatment. The private insurers have been dumping the sickest onto you tax payers for years!

You need to do your homework , a majority of american doctor favor a single payer, not socialized medicine. http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN31432035

Many claim to speak for physicians and represent their views. We asked doctors directly and found that, contrary to conventional wisdom, most doctors support national health insurance

We aren't dummies. LOok at the PNHP site.


I pay half a million a year for my employees health insurance, lets see you start your own business and afford that! Our children wil only be able to have health insurance if they work for the government or a conglomerate, the days of young, upstart small innovative businesses are gone in this country.

By the way, the health insurance companies don't do a lick of medical research, remember that, the best still comes from the NIH, ( yes your tax dollars)

 

[Dale Mabry]

single payer is not socialized medicine.

Medicare for all is not socialized medicine | Physicians for a National Health Program

Medicare is single payer for the elderly. They pay me within two weeks of filing a claim. The average private insurance 3 months.

I can order an MRI, cat scan pet scan etc. without beggin a high school graduate for prior authorization or precertification. Blue cross HMO takes sometimes an average 6 months to obtain a precert for an MRI...

Medicare pays me less but I only have to hire one coder and biller with benefits ( health insurance, disability, workmanscomp, etc.)

I have an army of coders and billers for the private insurance. I use up to 1/3 of what I collect from the private insureres to pay my personell.

Who is more inefficient?

seriously, you need to know the differance between single payer and socialized. My medicare patients can choose any facility they want to go to for care, harvard, johns hopkins etc. You cant do that in a socialized network.


as for rationing many of my private insurers "rescind" my patients with lethal diagnosis
I have to get medicare/ medicaid to pay for their life saving treatment. The private insurers have been dumping the sickest onto you tax payers for years!

You need to do your homework , a majority of american doctor favor a single payer, not socialized medicine. US doctors support universal health care - survey | Reuters






We aren't dummies. LOok at the PNHP site.


I pay half a million a year for my employees health insurance, lets see you start your own business and afford that! Our children wil only be able to have health insurance if they work for the government or a conglomerate, the days of young, upstart small innovative businesses are gone in this country.

By the way, the health insurance companies don't do a lick of medical research, remember that, the best still comes from the NIH, ( yes your tax dollars)

BAW, I am again going to have to ask you to stop clouding this issue with facts. On a side note, I love how people with little knowledge of a particular subject will argue with someone in that particular profession who is living and breathing it night and day, based off of something they heard as some political talking point. It's kind of like how McCain said 5 or so years ago that when the military higher ups would recommend repealing "don't ask don't tell" that it would be time to do so, yet when they did so a couple of weeks ago he was dead set against it. IMO, and it is obviously just my opinion, most people who choose a party affiliation are more worried about doing what is right for the party than what is right for the country. It's downright depressing, actually. Our gov't is ineffective because each party has a pre-determined notion of what works without any particular evidence supporting their notion, and every one of us assholes who voted them in is the guinea pig to see if they were correct.