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One reaction to Obama win: soaring gun sales

Muscle Gelz Transdermals
IronMag Labs Prohormones
Because it is in the constitution that we have the right to own one. Doesn't matter if I NEED one or not. I want them and have a right to own one and that should not be infringed upon.
I cannot understand stiffer control on this or anything and thoughts like yours will get everything banned. Once they get a foot in, they will not stop at assault rifles, they want everything you have. And if you don't think so, you are truely misinformed.

That is a fact. Every gun owner thinks he's safe 'cause "he's got what he needs" and screw everyone else and or make comments about what others "need" which throws other gun owners under the bus, and don't seem to "get it" on the larger picture here.
 
The Obama adminstration soon to be does not focus on the gun issue.

This is all hysteria.

Quite foolish, actually, but good for profit at guns shops.

I am a long term NRA member and gun owner and CC permit holder.
 
The Obama adminstration soon to be does not focus on the gun issue.

This is all hysteria.

Quite foolish, actually, but good for profit at guns shops.

I am a long term NRA member and gun owner and CC permit holder.[/QUOTI F

I FIND THAT HARD TO BELIEVE...ESPECIALLY IF YOU DON'T FEEL THIS IS AN ISSUE..:thumb:
 
On the radio the other day some lady was talking about how vague and outdated the Second Amendment in the Bill of rights is.....

What is vague about: the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

It says it in as plain of English as you can get. The people does not mean the military, law enforcement or even an established militia.It plainly states that THE PEOPLE can possess and carry weapons, and shall not be contested.... Also what makes it even less vague is the context of the times in which it was written. First of all it was part of British Common law and when the Kings army tried to revoke that right it became one of the fore issues to the Founders of our Nation. It is the Second issue in the Bill so it was obviously regarded as one of the major concerns that should never be taken lightly or referred to as "vague"...
 
The Obama adminstration soon to be does not focus on the gun issue.

This is all hysteria.

Quite foolish, actually, but good for profit at guns shops.

I am a long term NRA member and gun owner and CC permit holder.[/QUOTI]
I FIND THAT HARD TO BELIEVE...ESPECIALLY IF YOU DON'T FEEL THIS IS AN ISSUE..:thumb:

I should not be hard to be believe.

Where does BO make statements about this?
 
in a somewhat related vein.... well kinda...
Anyone here own or have any experience with the 'baby' desert eagle?
Baby Eagle Pistol: Magnum Research

Speaking of Desert Eagle, next week, state legislators from NJ will be voting on a state wide gun ban of .50 caliber and up firearms, for those of you who know, there are plenty of hunters around where I live in NJ who rely on .50+ caliber muzzleloaders for hunting...totally ridiculous...this state is by far one of the most f'd up liberal states out there...our own governor gets into a car accident and gets banged up because he wasnt wearing a seat belt...that says a lot huh..! gotta love it!
 
i know, sorry the comment was geared more towards big smoothy. like he doesnt know wtf he is talking about unless its the reason you stated.
 
It is the Second issue in the Bill so it was obviously regarded as one of the major concerns that should never be taken lightly or referred to as "vague"...

Vague = anti gun types in denial as they don't like what it says. There's nothing vague about it, and the author of the that amend was very clear what was meant by the phrase.
 
where you at big smoothy? still awaiting your next argument...:nerd:
 
The Obama adminstration soon to be does not focus on the gun issue.

It appears your debating skills are just slightly worse then your knowledge of the topic here. (a) his positions on guns, for example he's stated publicly he is in favor of a national ban on CCW, as well as other gems, are well known and easy to find. (b) it's not all that important as I covered here:

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/o...-obama-win-soaring-gun-sales.html#post1839578

This is all hysteria.

Quite foolish, actually, but good for profit at guns shops.

I am a long term NRA member and gun owner and CC permit holder.

I don't believe that for a second, but if true, you give all gun owners a bad name knowing this little about such an important topic that concerns your and my personal freedoms and liberties.
 
^ Thanks for the clarification.

I have not researched the gun issue, until now.
 
two things first thing i have a baby desert eagle 9mm. sweet gun sight is a bit off to the right. 17 round mag nice gun a pleasure to shoot. any way on to the next point. i didnt say a ban on assualt rifles. full auto strict ways to get one is my point. sorry that doesnt make alot of since head is a bit spinning today. any way more in the fact i support stricter control. i have no problem filling out paperwork to buy a gun no big. i do have a problem with some ass head selling a full auto in the paper to some punk. please read all my posts before you comment on one. i agree with gun control to a point. i agree that a criminal back ground check is and should be provided. saying what i can or cant buy as a law abiding citizen is completely diffrent. i dont support that in any way. now if charles manson were living down the street from me becouse some how he was released i would have a serious problem with him getting into the paper and saying hey theres a nice sig in the paper. then buying it no problem.
 
Muscle Gelz Transdermals
IronMag Labs Prohormones
Decision to kill fellow human beings comes from onse mind, not from gun. Instead of taking away others right to own guns, why not all the parents, teachers , media and spiritual leaders work as a team to teach our kids to respect and love each others. Spending time with kids is not good enough. We have to teach them about importance of being a good human being. Media seems to encourage our kids more about sex, materialism and competition, which are not good enough to make a happy society. Just my opinion.
 
Decision to kill fellow human beings comes from onse mind, not from gun. Instead of taking away others right to own guns, why not all the parents, teachers , media and spiritual leaders work as a team to teach our kids to respect and love each others. Spending time with kids is not good enough. We have to teach them about importance of being a good human being. Media seems to encourage our kids more about sex, materialism and competition, which are not good enough to make a happy society. Just my opinion.

Nothing wrong with those noble goals, but guns save lives also and are related to much larger issues of human rights. So if preserving human life is part of the above noble thoughts, then you have to think of the larger picture.If you really care about people, human rights, then you don't support gun control. For example:

The Next International Right

Thursday, October 17, 2002

By Glenn Harlan Reynolds


The past century was one of barbarism and mass murder, one in which the world stood by while large populations were exterminated by governments bent on power and possessed of the means of killing.

After World War II, the "international community" determined that the most important goal of the new international system created for the post-war era would be the prevention of genocide. "Never again," we were told, and nations signed the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide in large numbers.

Among the nations who signed were Cambodia (1950), the Congo (1962) and Rwanda (1975), though Rwanda was originally covered by Belgiumâ??????s agreement in 1952, when Rwanda was a Trust Territory administered by Belgium.

These three nations, of course, went on to become the greatest sites of genocide in the second half of the 20th century. (China's mass murders and starvation under Mao are more properly called "democide," as they did not single out a particular group or culture.)

In every case, the "international community" stood aside while the genocide took place unimpeded by the parchment barriers of international agreement. Tea, sympathy and peacekeeping forces were provided after the killing was done, but no action was taken to seriously inconvenience the killers while they were at work. International agreeements, and the international community, have proved as useless as the League of Nations was in confronting Mussolini's invasion of Ethiopia.
Related

As one article on the Rwandan genocide in Foreign Affairs puts it:

As reports of genocide reached the outside world starting in late April, public outcry spurred the United Nations to reauthorize a beefed up "UNAMIR II" on May 17. During the following month, however, the U.N. was unable to obtain any substantial contributions of troops and equipment. As a result, on June 22 the Security Council authorized France to lead its own intervention, Operation Turquoise, by which time most Tutsi were already long dead.

Nor have efforts to deter genocide by trying killers after the fact done very well. As the magazine Legal Affairs reports, Rwandan killers have turned up actually on the payroll of the "International Court" designated to try war criminals. It is, said one observer, as if Klaus Barbie had turned up on the staff at Nuremberg. Pol Pot, meanwhile, apparently died in bed.

This has led some observers to suggest that genocide isnâ??????t something that can be addressed by international conventions or tribunals. A recent article in the Washington University Law Quarterly argues that the most important thing we can do to prevent genocide is to ensure that civilian populations are armed:

The question of genocide is one of manifest importance in the closing years of a century that has been extraordinary for the quality and quantity of its bloodshed. As Elie Wiesel has rightly pointed out, "This century is the most violent in recorded history. Never have so many people participated in the killing of so many people."

Recent events in the former Yugoslavia, Rwanda, and many other parts of the world make it clear that the book has not yet been closed on the evil of official mass murder. Contemporary scholars have little explored the preconditions of genocide. Still less have they asked whether a society's weapons policy might be one of the institutional arrangements that contributes to the probability of its government engaging in some of the more extreme varieties of outrage.

Though it is a long step between being disarmed and being murdered--one does not usually lead to the other--but it is nevertheless an arresting reality that not one of the principal genocides of the twentieth century, and there have been dozens, has been inflicted on a population that was armed. (Emphasis added).

The result, conclude law professor Daniel Polsby and criminologist Don Kates, is that "a connection exists between the restrictiveness of a country's civilian weapons policy and its liability to commit genocide."

Armed citizens, they argue, are far less likely to be massacred than defenseless ones, and armed resistance to genocide is more likely to receive outside aid. It is probably no accident that the better-armed resistance to genocide in Bosnia and Kosovo drew international intervention, while the hapless Rwandans and Cambodians did not. When victims resist, what is merely cause for horror becomes cause for alarm, and those who are afraid of the conflictâ??????s spread will support (as Europe did) intervention out of self-interest when they could not be bothered to intervene out of compassion.

It is no wonder that genocide is so often preceded by efforts to disarm the people.

Current events in Zimbabwe appear to be playing out in the fashion that Polsby and Kates warn against. If this is the case, then surely the human rights community could be expected to take on the subject of armed citizens, particularly as the right to arms is far closer to the individual rights that make up the "first generation" of internationally recognized human rights.

After all, the human rights community has long argued that all sorts of dramatic changes in international law are justified if they might make genocide unlikely and has been nothing less than flexible in discovering such "post-first-generation" human rights as "developmental rights," "environmental rights" and a "right to peace."

In fact, the human rights community has addressed the issue -- but from the wrong side. They seem generally supportive of U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annanâ??????s effort to put in place a global gun control regime "including a prohibition of unrestricted trade and private ownership of small arms."

In other words, in the face of evidence that an armed populace prevents genocide, the human rights community has largely gotten behind a campaign to ensure that there will be no armed populaces anywhere in the world.

It seems to me that the human rights community has things exactly backward. Given that the efforts of the international community to prevent and punish genocide over the past several decades have been, to put it politely, a dismal failure, perhaps it is time to try a new approach. International human rights law is supposed to be a "living" body of law that changes with the needs of the times in order to secure important goals -- chief among which is the prevention of genocide. Given that the traditional approaches of conventions and tribunals have failed miserably, the human rights community should be prepared to endorse a new international human right: the right of law-abiding citizens to be armed.

It may seem odd to make such an argument at a time when D.C. is being terrorized by a mysterious gunman. But no one should pretend that rights do not have costs. We recognize the right to free speech not because we believe that speech does no harm, but because we believe that free speech has benefits that outweigh the harm. We recognize the right to abortion not because we believe that it is costless, but because the cost of having the state supervise womenâ??????s pregnancies is seen as worse. And we recognize the freedom of religion not because religion is safe -- it can and does lead to violence, as the worldwide epidemic of Islamic terrorism demonstrates -- but because having the government prescribe what is orthodox is worse.

Similarly, an armed populace might conceivably lead to more crime (though the criminological evidence suggests otherwise). But even if one believes that widespread ownership of firearms by law-abiding citizens leads to somewhat more crime, that is not by itself an argument against creating such a right, merely a cost to be set against the increased protection from genocide that such a right would provide.

Given the high value that we (supposedly, at least) place on preventing genocide, it seems unlikely that minor increases in crime rates could justify eliminating such a protection.

I wonder if the Bush administrationâ??????s diplomatic corps will have the nerve and the integrity to push this argument at the U.N. and elsewhere, not merely as an argument in opposition to global gun control, which they have been making already, but an argument in favor of a positive right to be armed as part of international human rights law? Perhaps they will, if enough Americans encourage them to.

Glenn Harlan Reynolds is a law professor at the University of Tennessee and publishes InstaPundit.Com. He is co-author, with Peter W. Morgan, of The Appearance of Impropriety: How the Ethics Wars Have Undermined American Government, Business, and Society (The Free Press, 1997).
 
i do have a problem with some ass head selling a full auto in the paper to some punk.

The problem is, you keep talking out of your a$$ on this topic and making all gun owners look bad. You can't sell a full auto to "some punk" minus all his details gong to the BATFE. Full auto guns are VERY strictly regulated and require a Class III full auto license which is a federal license. Anyone selling a full auto gun to anyone else who does not have that class III federal license is already breaking various state and federal laws. Even the most mellow states on full auto that don't require the buyer to have a class III (the seller must be however) require paperwork to fill out and get signed by your CLEO (Chief Law Enforcement Officer), paperwork sent to the BATFE (with two sets of fingerprints and $200) and other details. Full auto guns are VERY expensive, and BGs for the most part, don't bother with them as their weapon of choice.

If a BG wants a full auto gun, he wont go through a class III dealer, he will obtain it illegally which means additional laws wont stop him right?

please read all my posts before you comment on one.

I did. Now please do your research before making stupid comments. I expect stupid (read ill informed) comments from anti gun types, but gun owners such as yourself should be better informed or you become more a problem than any help to the pro 2A/gun owning community. The only thing worse than an ill informed anti gun type, is an ill informed gun owner!
 
two things first thing i have a baby desert eagle 9mm. sweet gun sight is a bit off to the right. 17 round mag nice gun a pleasure to shoot. any way on to the next point. i didnt say a ban on assualt rifles. full auto strict ways to get one is my point. sorry that doesnt make alot of since head is a bit spinning today. any way more in the fact i support stricter control. i have no problem filling out paperwork to buy a gun no big. i do have a problem with some ass head selling a full auto in the paper to some punk. please read all my posts before you comment on one. i agree with gun control to a point. i agree that a criminal back ground check is and should be provided. saying what i can or cant buy as a law abiding citizen is completely diffrent. i dont support that in any way. now if charles manson were living down the street from me becouse some how he was released i would have a serious problem with him getting into the paper and saying hey theres a nice sig in the paper. then buying it no problem.

You're an embarrassment to gun owners.
 
The problem is, you keep talking out of your a$$ on this topic and making all gun owners look bad. You can't sell a full auto to "some punk" minus all his details gong to the BATFE. Full auto guns are VERY strictly regulated and require a Class III full auto license which is a federal license. Anyone selling a full auto gun to anyone else who does not have that class III federal license is already breaking various state and federal laws. Even the most mellow states on full auto that don't require the buyer to have a class III (the seller must be however) require paperwork to fill out and get signed by your CLEO (Chief Law Enforcement Officer), paperwork sent to the BATFE (with two sets of fingerprints and $200) and other details. Full auto guns are VERY expensive, and BGs for the most part, don't bother with them as their weapon of choice.

If a BG wants a full auto gun, he wont go through a class III dealer, he will obtain it illegally which means additional laws wont stop him right?



I did. Now please do your research before making stupid comments. I expect stupid (read ill informed) comments from anti gun types, but gun owners such as yourself should be better informed or you become more a problem than any help to the pro 2A/gun owning community. The only thing worse than an ill informed anti gun type, is an ill informed gun owner!


first of all my comment about reading my post was not directed at you. the comment bout the paper go to vegas. a friend of mine was handed a freaking fliar with gun listings. i am informed about gun issues. i stated my point and i stand by it. i was making a example of my point. i support gun control to an extent nothing more nothing less. in general why do you need a unregisterd firearm. before calling my post stupid i could say the same about yours. you support the ability for any one to buy a gun. i dont that is my view, and its not stupid. why would it be such a big deal to not buy a unregisterd gun at a show. who freaking cares if you dont have any thing stopping you from buying a gun then why not fill out the paperwork. i have a problem with the fact any criminal can buy a gun out of the damn paper. that is my point. how is that ignorant in any way shape and or form.
 
You're an embarrassment to gun owners.

no not so much. you are nothing more than a waste of space on this bourd. i have no interest in further conversation with you. if you have some thing inteligent to post then post it. if not then fuck off!
 
first of all my comment about reading my post was not directed at you. the comment bout the paper go to vegas. a friend of mine was handed a freaking fliar with gun listings.

See comments above. You will still need to go through the process I listed above. Try and purchase a full auto gun in NV minus any above mentioned paper work. You can't, unless you are looking to bipass the state and federal laws. I have a non res NV CCW license, as well as others.

i am informed about gun issues.

Your track record so far says otherwise...

i stated my point and i stand by it.

And I stand by mine: you were wrong, and still are, and make a poor example for gun owners

i was making a example of my point.

Yes, a point made on an incorrect example.:rolleyes:

i support gun control to an extent nothing more nothing less. in general why do you need a unregisterd firearm.

Because registration does not reduce crime rates. It only serves to allow the government to know which law abiding types have what, which all through history, was the step prior to confiscation. This is going to come as a real stunner for you, but criminals don't register their guns, thus only the law abiding register thus it serves no purpose other than government to keep track of your guns, which frankly, is none of their damn business...

before calling my post stupid i could say the same about yours.

You could, but you would be wrong...

you support the ability for any one to buy a gun. i dont that is my view, and its not stupid. why would it be such a big deal to not buy a unregisterd gun at a show. who freaking cares if you dont have any thing stopping you from buying a gun then why not fill out the paperwork. i have a problem with the fact any criminal can buy a gun out of the damn paper. that is my point. how is that ignorant in any way shape and or form.

Translated: you are ill informed and make gun owners look bad due to ignorance of the topic. What % of crimes are full auto weapons for example that were purchased by "punks" at a gun show minus any paper work? The sad thing is, you are a gun owner who has fallen for all the mythology invented by the anti gun groups! If you are actually interested in knowing what you are talking about (and I aint convinced you are at this point...) go to:

Gun Facts - Your guide for debunking gun control myth

"Gun Facts - Your Guide to Debunking Gun Control Myths

INTRODUCTION: Gun Facts is a free e-book that debunks common myths about gun control. It is intended as a reference guide for journalists, activists, politicians, and other people interested in restoring honesty to the debate about guns, crime, and the 2nd Amendment.

Gun Facts has 94 pages of information. Divided into chapters based on gun control topics (assault weapons, ballistic finger printing, firearm availability, etc.), finding information is quick and easy."

Yes, it's free...
 
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Because registration does not reduce crime rates. It only serves to allow the government to know which law abiding types have what, which all through history, was the step prior to confiscation. This is going to come as a real stunner for you, but criminals don't register their guns, thus only the law abiding register thus it serves no purpose other than government to keep track of your guns, which frankly, is none of their damn business...

i think this is the most important part.. its so true
 
ok so it seems at some point this got way off topic here. early in the thread this was more about making it so ffl checks were at gun shows, and such. on that note i see no problem with it what so ever. i will defend that point yes. making it a little bit harder to get a unregisterd gun. yes i am well aware that most gun related violence happens with unregisterd firearms. please enighten me as to when this thread took the turn of practice and theory. in theory if gun control laws were more strict then it would work. practice is completely diffrent. hell comunism is perfect in theory. problem is it doesnt work. so wich topic are we discussing here? practice or theory? at any given time it is easy to get a gun for street punk granted. if things were done correctly it wouldnt be so easy that is not the case. so why not try and make things a bit better. also you say they can get these weapons then you say how hard it is. then you say you would have to bipass this and this. that is my point. that you can bypass this and this. that is the damn problem. not with people owning guns its with people being able to bipass the correct channels to get guns. what ever though apperently i have my views wich makes me uneducated, and you have yours. this is an argument that will go no were. thanks for the great conversation bout this issue willbrink. i am done with this thread becouse it will become redundant.
 
ok so it seems at some point this got way off topic here. early in the thread this was more about making it so ffl checks were at gun shows, and such. on that note i see no problem with it what so ever. i will defend that point yes. making it a little bit harder to get a unregisterd gun. yes i am well aware that most gun related violence happens with unregisterd firearms. please enighten me as to when this thread took the turn of practice and theory. in theory if gun control laws were more strict then it would work.

Again, you speak minus actually looking at the research and real world effects of gun laws. Place to actually inform yourself has been given above, so I wont repeat it.

practice is completely diffrent.

Exactly, stricter gun laws = more crime. In all states where "shall issue" laws were passed, crme went down. In fantasy land, it makes sense to say "lets pass stricter gun laws so crime goes down." In practice, ergo, the "real world" it either has no effects on crime, or raises crime as shockingly, criminals don't follow the laws. Every comment you have made, has only made you look less informed on the topic.

Every year the Brady Bunch gives each state a grade for their gun laws. As you would expect (as they being a anti gun/pro gun control oriented group), states with strict gun control laws get high grades and states with less strict laws get lower grades:


STATE . . . . . . Brady Grade,

New York . . . . . . B+
Vermont . . . . . . . D-
New Hampshire . . D-
Maine . . . . . . . . . D-
Massachusetts . . . A-
Connecticut . . . . . A-
Rhode Island . . . . B-

Now, lets compare each of those states to the actual crime rates:


2005 FBI UCR data of crime/homicide rates per 100,000 people:

Region . . . Violent Crime, Homicide Rates
USA National . . 569.2 , 5.6
New York . . . . 445.8 , 4.5
Vermont . . . . . 119.7 , 1.3
New Hampshire 132.0 , 1.4
Maine . . . . . . . 112.2 , 1.4
Massachusetts . 456.9 , 2.7
Connecticut . . . 274.5 , 2.9
Rhode Island . . 251.2 , 3.2

Conclusion: if you want to find the safest place to live in the US, chose the state with the WORST grade from the Brady bunch! Aint playing with numbers fun?



i am done with this thread becouse it will become redundant.

Translated, instead of actually taking the time to educate yourself on the topic, you wish to remain ill informed of the facts. As I said, only thing worse then an ill informed anti gun type is an ill informed/ignorant gun owner. Very sad....:wits:
 
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