Permanent Sterility

[Kirk B]

yea ive been spending alot on pct, its getting relentless, i go back in 3 weeks, and yes i tried triperellen twice. guys im still on hcg, clomid and nolvadex. im defanitly getting hmg, i hear good things about it, (promissing). the guy that posted this is 22 and he is having trouble rebounding, im 45, and had a 18 month run so only time will tell.
i ask was it worth it, i lost most my gains anyway, and i started playing with peptides, but could not afford both, i spent my cycle on this pct. yea it does suck.
im going nuts, i want to jump back on, but gotta see this threw. i have 4 more weeks left on hcg, 500iu every other day, and the clomid + nolvadex, ill keep ya posted when my next test comes back, and thank you guys, ive seen all your names b4, and received lots of good info and support from alot of you, thanxs.
bones,

HMG is the strongest I hear so I really hope it works for you buddy


and to MSUMUSCLE don't do that at your age yet bro go on and off have ai's on hand and hcg 4 weeks in start or sooner depending on what you take the faster you came off the faster you can get back on read the articles on here about sarms ostra I think they even have it here you wont lose much gains you make at all if you pct and run that bro so do that IMHO def at your age the BoneMan is right you might want Kids and I was lucky enough to run hcg and do 3 cycles and have got my old lady prego before and just cause I did my home work and came off and back on AAS 4 x bro be smart listen to these guys they have alot to offer bro just looking out for you

 

[theboneman]

Good luck with that bones, scary story! Puts things in perspective.

yea i know, it makes ya really think b4 ya do something, i appreciate you guys point of view, ive received excellent support from all you guys, this 22 year old young buck, has got serious decisions to make.
reality can bite you in the ass sometimes, hahaha.
later,
bones

 

[Grozny]

Does anybody believe in permanent sterility from AAS? I'd just like to hear different opinions & experiences from people who blast and cruise, good or bad.

Sterility in men is a weird thing. Unless there is a physical problem making viable sperm, men are rarely completely sterile; we just get low sperm counts which makes conception much more difficult. Technically, it only takes one sperm... So subsequent to steroid use, true permanent sterility is not something you are really going to see. What you may see at times are difficulties maintaing optimal sperm count, which may require medical intervention to correct/restore the fertility level you want to conceive.

 

[Glycomann]

yea ive been spending alot on pct, its getting relentless, i go back in 3 weeks, and yes i tried triperellen twice. guys im still on hcg, clomid and nolvadex. im defanitly getting hmg, i hear good things about it, (promissing). the guy that posted this is 22 and he is having trouble rebounding, im 45, and had a 18 month run so only time will tell.
i ask was it worth it, i lost most my gains anyway, and i started playing with peptides, but could not afford both, i spent my cycle on this pct. yea it does suck.
im going nuts, i want to jump back on, but gotta see this threw. i have 4 more weeks left on hcg, 500iu every other day, and the clomid + nolvadex, ill keep ya posted when my next test comes back, and thank you guys, ive seen all your names b4, and received lots of good info and support from alot of you, thanxs.
bones,

How long have you been off? Have you tried just letting your system come back naturally? Also you might want to PM Heavyiron. He conceived with his wife not long ago I think and he went through the whole restart thing after being on for years. What I've seen is most guys from the 80s and 90s that used have long since conceived with wife's. One guy was a heavy user from highschool well into his 30s before retiring from competition. He has a son and very proud of him. He's in his early 50s now and does not even work out so not even on TRT. He would go off once a year on average for months. A good friend of mine owned on of my favorite gyms always cycled on and off. He has 2 daughters and was off for a decade until recently. He's 49. There are dozens of guys I know that conceived long after their BBing days were over and had no inkling to use any TRT or anything. Most of them restarted without so much as a tab of clomid. I myself conceived my daughter 3 weeks off my 4th cycle. I remember the shot. I just came home from partying with a friend that lived up the road. Took the wife as soon as I got in the door.

 

[BIGBEN2011]

i think going on trt at a young age under 40 is the stupid thing in the world hands douwn.i mean shit steriods are not magic just go off for a little while run hcg while on do a good pct use all kinds of supplments ,test booster creatin everything including the sink.if you can only look good with steriods somthing wroung anyway.but it takes hard work but it is not the end of the world if you loose a couple pounds for a couple months out of the year nobody even notice besides yourself.do you really want to have to be a slave to the needle the rest of your life.your no diff than a drug addicct that can not go or do anything with out making sure you got enough of your fix to make it.maybe i am just lucky i can still gain even while off .now for the peolpe that have low t and need it then that is a diff story.

 

[Standard Donkey]

i think going on trt at a young age under 40 is the stupid thing in the world hands douwn.i mean shit steriods are not magic just go off for a little while run hcg while on do a good pct use all kinds of supplments ,test booster creatin everything including the sink.if you can only look good with steriods somthing wroung anyway.but it takes hard work but it is not the end of the world if you loose a couple pounds for a couple months out of the year nobody even notice besides yourself.do you really want to have to be a slave to the needle the rest of your life.your no diff than a drug addicct that can not go or do anything with out making sure you got enough of your fix to make it.maybe i am just lucky i can still gain even while off .now for the peolpe that have low t and need it then that is a diff story.

you sound like my mom

 

[bml600lb]

If anything your gonna get someone knocked up lol.... I just ran a cycle and I was like a wild man with my women.... she kept asking me (why are you so horny lol) well Sunday morning she comes up to me and shows me the preg test and Im gonna be a daddy again lol

 

[theboneman]

if anything your gonna get someone knocked up lol.... I just ran a cycle and i was like a wild man with my women.... She kept asking me (why are you so horny lol) well sunday morning she comes up to me and shows me the preg test and im gonna be a daddy again lol

congratulations my friend, i wish the best for you and your family, good luck daddy.
Bones

 

[BIGBEN2011]

you sound like my mom

lol that was funny so you know it is bad if i am preaching about somthing if you knew me i am the bad boy .i have done everything and should be dead i am one of those people that when youger would shoot up rubbing alcohol to try to get high.and even my dumb ass knows being on trt at a young age is dumb.

 

[Standard Donkey]

lol that was funny so you know it is bad if i am preaching about somthing if you knew me i am the bad boy .i have done everything and should be dead i am one of those people that when youger would shoot up rubbing alcohol to try to get high.and even my dumb ass knows being on trt at a young age is dumb.

shit bro

 

[Standard Donkey]

boneman i strongly believe you will find success with hmg, its supposed to be the kicker (fsh).

 

[Standard Donkey]

Victor posted this on a different board back in 09

Steroids, HCG and Fertility

One of the more worrisome aspects of using high-dose anabolic steroid regimens is their effect on fertility. Many commonly used anabolic steroids exert a feedback mechanism on the pituitary gland in the brain, which responds by stopping the release of two hormones known as gonadotropins: luteinizing hormone and follicle-stimulating hormone. Interestingly, estrogen is even more potent than testosterone at inhibiting the release of LH and FSH. (Increased estrogen levels in male steroid users are the result of the conversion of testosterone or anabolic steroid drugs into estrogen through the activity of the ubiquitous enzyme aromatase.)

The lack of gonadotropins lowers fertility, since those hormones are required for complete sperm development. Infertility is still often listed as a major side effect of anabolic-steroid use, though permanent infertility is rare among bodybuilders and other athletes. Cycling, or taking a break from all drug use, enables the body to bounce back from impaired fertility in most cases. Sometimes, however, that can take a while, depending on how much was used and the duration of the cycle.

Athletes have well-known ways of offsetting the possible antifertility effects of high-dose anabolic-steroids. They turn to anti-estrogen drugs to prevent the rise in estrogen that results from aromatization. Such drugs include Nolvadex, clomiphene and lately, potent anti-aromatase drugs such as Arimidex and others in that category, which cripple the activity of aromatase, lowering estrogen levels.

While blocking estrogen helps maintain fertility in men (although some estrogen is required for full sperm development), it doesn't affect the lack of gonadotropin secretion required for sperm development. For that purpose, bodybuilders and other athletes turn to human chorionic gonadotropin. HCG is the same hormone that shows up early in pregnancy. Male athletes are interested in the substance because it looks a lot like LH.

Not only is LH needed for sperm development, but it's also the rate-limiting hormone for testosterone synthesis in the body. Athletes hope HCG will maintain the body's testosterone production, which would normally be suppressed by anabolic steroids. HCG also maintains the sperm count, offsetting infertility.

Bodybuilders use HCG either during a steroid cycle or during the last two weeks of a cycle, when the drugs are tapered down to zero. Some have written that it's futile to use HCG during a cycle because the high steroid doses will overcome any effect of HCG. Others point out that HCG promotes not only testosterone synthesis but also estrogen. If the athlete doesn't also use an estrogen-blocking drug, estrogen-related side effects, such as gynecomastia, can quickly become apparent.

A newly published study followed the use of HCG and steroids in 21 men, mostly bodybuilders, aged 24 to 42, for six years.2 The athletes used their own steroids; none were supplied by the researchers. As a result, the cycles of the subjects varied in dosages and time but were far higher than any doctor would prescribe. In short, they used real-world drug regimens. The average-length drug cycle was 138 days, while the average daily dose was 96 milligrams.

As expected, all the subjects showed a decrease in sperm count while on a cycle. Within six weeks after getting off the drugs, nearly all had significant increases in sperm count. By the six-month mark most were back to normal, although one subject showed no sperm production at all at the end of his cycle. Nor did he recover after the six-month follow-up. Within five years, however, he and his wife had two healthy daughters.

The study proved the long-held contention that injecting HCG (as a protein hormone, it must be injected) while on a high-dose steroid regimen does maintain sperm production. On the other hand, a novel finding was that using both high-dose anabolic steroids and HCG leads to abnormalities in sperm.

What caused the abnormalities? Full sperm development requires not only LH, which is provided by the HCG, but also FSH. The men didn't use any type of FSH drug, although such drugs are available and are used to treat female infertility. The authors, however, suggest that HCG caused the abnormal sperm production all on its own.

At first glance, this study appears to be alarming. Abnormal sperm is linked to male infertility and to possible birth defects. On the other hand, I know of not a single professional bodybuilder who's had a child born with any birth defect'and some of them used huge steroid cycles off and on for years. My guess is that somehow the body can tell which sperm are more effective at the job than others, and the superior sperm get to the goal first.

 

[BIGBEN2011]

that is not no where near my main fear of using steriods my bigest fear is 10 years from now or 5 or what ever they say ben you have cancer and your going to die and it is because you used gear so you could look just a little better then you would have if you did not use them.and you would have lived another 50 years but now you will die just to look good now someone else will be pounding your wife and your kids will be calling another man dad while your six foot under for kiling yourself basically.which i dont think this will happen because i try to not do high doses and i come off i have only ran like 33 weeks worth of cycles over 35 years as of now.but there is no doubt that if you stay on any drug for your whole life espically if you start young so say you take any drug for 40 50 years or more it is going to cause you problems and will lead to your death coming earlier than it would have just common since really but when you 20 years old you never think you will live to be 50 60 years old but it comes on quick as amofo.

 

[BIGBEN2011]

i will say this standard donkey maybe young and i may not agree with being on trt at a young age but he does know what he is talking about atleast.props for that young man

 

[Digitalash]

Gear's not gonna give you cancer though bro, keep your heart healthy and your cardio in good shape, don't go insane with your doses/cycle length and it's very unlikely it's gonna kill you

 

[Standard Donkey]

Gear's not gonna give you cancer though bro, keep your heart healthy and your cardio in good shape, don't go insane with your doses/cycle length and it's very unlikely it's gonna kill you

yeah ive never heard of testosterone killing anyone

 

[skinnyguy180]

yea ive been spending alot on pct, its getting relentless, i go back in 3 weeks, and yes i tried triperellen twice. guys im still on hcg, clomid and nolvadex. im defanitly getting hmg, i hear good things about it, (promissing). the guy that posted this is 22 and he is having trouble rebounding, im 45, and had a 18 month run so only time will tell.
i ask was it worth it, i lost most my gains anyway, and i started playing with peptides, but could not afford both, i spent my cycle on this pct. yea it does suck.
im going nuts, i want to jump back on, but gotta see this threw. i have 4 more weeks left on hcg, 500iu every other day, and the clomid + nolvadex, ill keep ya posted when my next test comes back, and thank you guys, ive seen all your names b4, and received lots of good info and support from alot of you, thanxs.
bones,

You sound like me except I'm 28 and I just got my girl pregnant well actually 6 months ago. But my natty test levels are now fucked. To the op that started the thread- any time you shut down your system you might not get it back. I compare it to muscle atrophy. Basically is you stay in bed for three months and don't move your muscles will disappear and getting back to where they were can take some time. Now compare that to 8 months to a year, which is what I did, and now you have greater possibility that you well not recover fully.

Disclaimer-I don't know if it is exactly correct it is just my understanding. And before I did that to myself I decided right then if I wanted more kids. I will now have two. And still might have some sperm frozen no joke my girl wants a football team worth of kids hahaha. But she know what's going on with me.

 

[msumuscle]

i think going on trt at a young age under 40 is the stupid thing in the world hands douwn.i mean shit steriods are not magic just go off for a little while run hcg while on do a good pct use all kinds of supplments ,test booster creatin everything including the sink.if you can only look good with steriods somthing wroung anyway.but it takes hard work but it is not the end of the world if you loose a couple pounds for a couple months out of the year nobody even notice besides yourself.do you really want to have to be a slave to the needle the rest of your life.your no diff than a drug addicct that can not go or do anything with out making sure you got enough of your fix to make it.maybe i am just lucky i can still gain even while off .now for the peolpe that have low t and need it then that is a diff story.

lol I believe steroids are magic

 

[msumuscle]

BigBen I have absolutely no problem relying on a needle for the rest of my life, I'm one of the weirdo's that looks forward to pinning. Sterility is my one and ONLY concern, a long with little baby testes.

 

[msumuscle]

Testosterone doesn't kill people, STANDARD DONKEY DOES!

 

[theboneman]

boneman i strongly believe you will find success with hmg, its supposed to be the kicker (fsh).

yea, thats what i been hearing, i bet your right on the money with that, i was holding out so i could do it right, they say 75 to 150 iu's a day for 2 to 4 weeks, that can be costly but i guess its worth it, im gonna have to break the bank..
thanks.
bones

 

[Standard Donkey]

yea, thats what i been hearing, i bet your right on the money with that, i was holding out so i could do it right, they say 75 to 150 iu's a day for 2 to 4 weeks, that can be costly but i guess its worth it, im gonna have to break the bank..
thanks.
bones

go to canada, there are ug's that carry it if you are willing to take that route.

 

[theboneman]

go to canada, there are ug's that carry it if you are willing to take that route.

thats something i gotta research, i never even thought of that, i wish i had a connect there, it would make it a little easier but its worth looking into, im sure i can come up with something,, you just put a twist on it for me, thank you my man, ya probally just saved me a nice hit.
at $30 dol for 75iu's thats $210 a week, and they recommend 150 iu's, that would be $420 a week, and at 4 weeks im looking at $1680 !!!! give or take a couple bucks, yea i bet i could save alot of dough for that gesture you made,, thanks again bro, (smart man).
and ive already spent alot on this situation, i hope something breaks soon, its getting costly, guys have good idea's, but thier expensive, hgh, or peptides add right up. i gotta see it threw because its really important to the wifey, and she has stuck by me on a couple bids, so you can imagine what im thinking, i wanna get back on the shit, but i really wanna pull threw for the wife.
only time will tell, ill keep ya"ll posted, and hey, thanks for your help on this, its been 7 months and been very stressfull looking for ansers.
later,
bones

 

[Digitalash]

Nothing to add here bro but I wish you the best bones, sounds like a rough situation and I can't imagine really. I don't want kids but I'm young yet, I hope I don't change my mind someday and actually meet a decent girl, or I may be in the same situation...

 

[Standard Donkey]

i plan on coming off if i cant have kids while on, getting medicated if simply coming off doesnt work, then going right back on after the wife gets knocked up... no hgh or peptides in my future i dont think

 

[theboneman]

Nothing to add here bro but I wish you the best bones, sounds like a rough situation and I can't imagine really. I don't want kids but I'm young yet, I hope I don't change my mind someday and actually meet a decent girl, or I may be in the same situation...

you have actually added alot my friend, you have given me feedback on some other threads too, and it helped me to make it this far, im still trying, thanks man !! still havnt gave up !
bones

 

[bjg]

msumuscle listen to your senses and to the boneman.....you cannot decide what is going to happen to you based on other's stories..each responds differently ..however you are 22 and it is really stupid to start messing with your hormones and gh etc... you are too young ...starting that young means you are going to do it for a long time and for that reason you might end up messing up your sperm count for good ..and that's not the only thing you can mess up dude....what is going on with you guys is normal training and health out of your dictionnary? ..

 

[Standard Donkey]

msumuscle listen to your senses and to the boneman.....you cannot decide what is going to happen to you based on other's stories..each responds differently ..however you are 22 and it is really stupid to start messing with your hormones and gh etc... you are too young ...starting that young means you are going to do it for a long time and for that reason you might end up messing up your sperm count for good ..and that's not the only thing you can mess up dude....what is going on with you guys is normal training and health out of your dictionnary? ..

i was hoping you would leave your "contributions" out of this thread.

 

[airsealed2]

My only concern would be desensitization over time to HCG, but I don't know that that's ever been proven to be anything more than speculative bunk science. I guarantee Heavyiron would be able to offer some really solid input here, he's a walking, lifting, protein-synthesizing encyclopedia on this sort of stuff.

Bro, it has been pretty well proven that HCG desensitization is a myth. I mean that. I could dig up the work on that but I'm too busy and lazy. I read one paper by a leading expert that said it is certain it never happens, ever. I know there are those that repeat the myth but it ain't so.

I'm sorry if I sound dogmatic, I don't usually do that but that myth is so prevalent, I felt I needed to at least be clear about my understanding of the issue.

As to the low sperm count thing, I have read that a protocal of HMG, HCG and proviron is often effective when all else fails at reversing AAS induced low sperm count.

I have another theory of my own I will advance that touches on this subject (at least in a preventative sense) in a separate thread very soon. I am just too busy to elaborate right now though.

Also, because it is somewhat theoretical, I question how apt it would be here.

 

[Goldenera]

Do you compete? If so then ok I get it.

If not.....that's silly to go on trt at 22 IMHO. I worked out like a madman 18-22 then I got bored with it and quit for 8 yrs. now I'm back at it. Life goes on.

There more to life then being jacked lol! trust me I like to look good just as much as we all do.

I'm a 1st time dad since the end of last yr. I wouldn't give that for anything now that I've experience it! That said kids are huge responsibility and NOT for everyone that's for sure! You don't have to have a kid.....

I'd say just do pct like the rest of us.
I've made plenty of great gains natural with diet and proper routine. Roids aren't the end all be all.

As others have said you can always freeze your seed and bomb trt and have your cake and eat it to lol!