problem with split

[perfecto]

im having a current problem with my monday workout which is chest and shoulders. basicly what happens is that i work my chest out first (1. flat db press 2.incline db press 3. flies) 3x8, then i go onto shoulders with shoulder press, lateral raises, etc, but by then i just cant even do any more. i can usually get through the first set but the second set is just impossible. Could this be because my muscles are allready tired from the chest workout? If so when would be a good time for me to do shoulders? I dont wanna go above a 4 day split, my current is:

Monday: chest/shoulders

Tuesday: Back/abs

Thursday: Legs/abs

Sat: bi's/tri's

comments appreciated

 

[Scotty the Body]

Actually, the whole idea of training Shoulders or tri's with chest is that they are pre fatigued and don't need a whole lot of extra work.
If you need to make shoulders or tri's a priority, you may want to switch them to a day where they can be done fresh.
Otherwise, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[perfecto]

i actually thought and still think shoulders are a very important and main muscle group, like i regard em as important as chest, however ive seen some of your posts scotty and you said you dont really even work your shoulders out, whys that?

 

[Fit Freak]

I think that training chest, shoulders, and back within the first two days is a lot.

Try something like this (if you want to keep it at 4 days/wk):

Monday - Chest/Biceps
Tuesday - Legs/Abs/Calves
Thursday - Shoulders/Triceps
Saturday - Back/Abs/Calves

This gives all bodyparts lots of rest and allows you to prioritize all groups since nothing is pre-fatigued in this routine

 

[perfecto]

what do you think of the volume that i described earlier 3x8 on each exercise and aproximatley 3-4 exercises per bodypart?

 

[Fit Freak]

I think it's fine but I would make sure I do more sets for larger groups...ie. legs and back compared to arms. Given this the standard 3x8 for 3-4 sets doesn't fit...you need more customization. As for doing all sets of 8 reps..IMHO...I'm not a fan....some muscles respond better to higher reps such as the legs, calves, abs. I like to work all muscles through a variety of repetition schemes to make sure I train the muscles for strength, growth and endurance. It all comes down to your preference as well as what works best for you...just giving you some things to consider.

 

[Scotty the Body]

ive seen some of your posts scotty and you said you dont really even work your shoulders out, whys that?

I feel they get enough work with chest and back that they don't need much more.
For me, its more of a personal thing, I have well developed shoulders, its genetic and they don't need a whole lot of direct work to grow.

 

[Arnold]

the only extra work I do for shoulders is the medial head, I also feel that anteriors get hit with chest and posteriors with back.

 

[perfecto]

FitFreak: sorry i did forget to mention that yer for abs i do 3x25 and calves 3x15. So do you think for muscles like chest/back/legs and maybe shoulders i should do 4x8? and let smaller muscles like bi's/tris's have about 2 sets each?

Scotty: i generally have very large shoulders and especially traps, do you think i should be concentrating less on those muscles as opposed to other which need work, i.e. biceps?

Bear: whats the proper way and form to execute lateral raises?

 

[Fit Freak]

3 sets is not enough to develop complete calves since you neeed to work the gastrocnemious (standing raises) as well as the soleous (seated raises).

What I was saying for legs is that I would do higher reps thatn 8. As for back and chest I think you're ok...depending on your intensity.

Also 3 sets for abs isn't much either. Think about it since you should target the obliques as well as the rectus abdominus (rectus should be targeted for lower and aupper region). You should also do something to train the transverse abdominus (internal stabilization muscle surronding the spinal column)

 

[Scotty the Body]

Originally posted by perfecto
Scotty: i generally have very large shoulders and especially traps, do you think i should be concentrating less on those muscles as opposed to other which need work, i.e. biceps?

Its up to you, if you think they need extra work or they can handle extra work without being sore for doing chest and back then go for it.

 

[MeanCuts]

Originally posted by perfecto
im having a current problem with my monday workout which is chest and shoulders. basicly what happens is that i work my chest out first (1. flat db press 2.incline db press 3. flies) 3x8, then i go onto shoulders with shoulder press, lateral raises, etc, but by then i just cant even do any more. i can usually get through the first set but the second set is just impossible. Could this be because my muscles are allready tired from the chest workout? If so when would be a good time for me to do shoulders? I dont wanna go above a 4 day split, my current is:

Monday: chest/shoulders

Tuesday: Back/abs

Thursday: Legs/abs

Sat: bi's/tri's

comments appreciated

If at all possible i'd do a split routine it's ideal in my opinion but a lot of people don't have the time or maybe try mixing up your muscle groups here's my workout keep in mind it's a split rountine(except legs) first muscle group in the morning second in the evening.
Day 1:chest/tri's(abs)
Day 2:legs
Day 3:back/bi's
Day 4:shoulders/forarms(abs)
Then 2 days off/repeat

 

[perfecto]

thanx for the feedback guys.

Fitfreak: ive only been doing decline ab crunches for my abs as a workout, do you have any articls or examples of a good ab workout that includes the obliques, etc.

 

[perfecto]

i liked the split fitfreak suggested so i started on it this week, its very similar to your one, except i dont like the idea of giving calves and abs a whole day. I just got back from my workout (legs/calves/abs), gave calves 3x15 straight leg, 3x15 seated, gave abs 3x15 decline ab crunches and 3x15 hanging leg straight leg raises and right now im fuckin sore...

Also what is this 'v taper' everyone speaks of?

 

[perfecto]

all i need to do now is start myself on squats and deadlifts, but i dont want my ass growin big

 

[MeanCuts]

Originally posted by perfecto
i liked the split fitfreak suggested so i started on it this week, its very similar to your one, except i dont like the idea of giving calves and abs a whole day. I just got back from my workout (legs/calves/abs), gave calves 3x15 straight leg, 3x15 seated, gave abs 3x15 decline ab crunches and 3x15 hanging leg straight leg raises and right now im fuckin sore...

Also what is this 'v taper' everyone speaks of?

Sure that's what he was saying by legs/abs/calves?What happened to the leg part?

 

[Fit Freak]

Perfecto....here is only one example of an ab workout that works the entire abdominal region:

1) Hanging knee raise (targets lower rectus abdominus)
2) Decline Crunches or Regular Crunches (target mainly the upper portion of the rectus abdominus)
3) Oblique Crunches over Stability Ball (Obliques)
4) Abdominal Crunch Twists (also obliques but through a deifferent motion)

 

[perfecto]

haha nah i did legs but i just didnt mention em

i do 45 degree leg press, leg curl, leg extensions, and i do standing + sitting calf raises, im gonna start deadlifting and squatting as of next week.

 

[perfecto]

thanx fitfreak, i thought the hanging straitleg raise would be more beneficial than the bent knee?

 

[MeanCuts]

Originally posted by perfecto
haha nah i did legs but i just didnt mention em

i do 45 degree leg press, leg curl, leg extensions, and i do standing + sitting calf raises, im gonna start deadlifting and squatting as of next week.

Great idea bro the big three for growth are bench,squats and deadlifts

 

[perfecto]

haha i dont really bench, i hate the idea of using a bar i find the db's give me more power and co-ordination. ive also never squatted or done dead lifts before what intensity would you recommend for them?

 

[MeanCuts]

I would go easy bro find out what weight is good for you,get the balance then you can up the intenisty

 

[perfecto]

yer thats what i was plannin on doin

 

[Yanick]

Perfecto,

be really careful if you've never squatted or done DL's before. They are two of the best exercises IMO, but they are also dangerous. Don't pile on the weight right away (use just the bar) and make sure you can see yourself in a mirror (front and side of your body) so you can get the form down.

Also if you don't do so now, try wearing pants when deadlifting. I always forget to wear pants when DL'ing and my shins get cut up like crazy.

 

[Fit Freak]

Perfecto...hanging straight leg raises are more challenging and can be more beneficial BUT for most of us are abdominals are not strong enough to perform them properly...to compensate we end up using our "hip flexors" to raise the legs instead of the abdominals. The end result is reduced gains when you actually think you're doing something 'better.'

 

[MeanCuts]

Originally posted by perfecto
yer thats what i was plannin on doin

I do that with any new exercise is go light so you can get the movement down then gradually add your weights and find what's good for ya

 

[perfecto]

fair enuff, thanx for all da advice