Rows. . .

[TapRackBang]

When doing bent-over rows (same as low rows?), I find it hard to position myself so that my lower back doesn't hurt. My back recovers fairly quickly (doesn't stay sore).

Does this mean I'm not using proper form? Or does it mean my lower back is weak and I need to do more rows?

I like doing them. I never did them while lifting in my "previous life". In fact, I can't decide which I like better, hack squats or rows.

TapRackBang

 

[OceanDude]

Originally posted by TapRackBang
When doing bent-over rows (same as low rows?), I find it hard to position myself so that my lower back doesn't hurt. My back recovers fairly quickly (doesn't stay sore).

Does this mean I'm not using proper form? Or does it mean my lower back is weak and I need to do more rows?

I like doing them. I never did them while lifting in my "previous life". In fact, I can't decide which I like better, hack squats or rows.

TapRackBang

I???ll give you my opinion since I use to have this problem. Others hopefully will also give pointers. I personally consider bent over (barbell) rows a moderately advanced exercise. Form is very important and it requires that you have reasonable muscle balance, strength and flexibility in abs, lats, lower back and upper back/shoulders ??? not to mention reasonable coordination. If you have not been lifting long you might want to consider holding off on this exercise until you develop better overall core strength and balance. If you have been lifting for at least three months or longer and do not have a pre existing back condition (e.g. compressed spine, irritated disk etc.) then it is OK to do this with moderate weight and work up the weights as you develop greater strength. Angle is important too so bend over to close to or slightly above horizontal. Never permit the head to look down at the floor or too high above the horizontal plane. Also be sure to lift the bar to your abs NOT the chest. The further out the bar moves from the abdominal region toward the chest the more stress and cantilever you are going to put on your lower back. Think of pulling with the lats and not the lower back. Also, keep the body stationary. Do not pump it up and down or again you will involve the lower back too much and this can lead to stress and injury. To make the exer5cise isolate the lats make sure that you do not over engage the biceps ??? just think of letting the arms hang like mechanical hooks and use the back to pull the bar up. Warm up with a light weight before you start to get into the heaver range.

Good mornings are another advanced exercise to consider for hitting the lower back area. But again, this one can really put tension on the back so make sure you have reasonably developed core strength and strength balance before getting into this one.

 

[Mudge]

Tap, I put my left leg forward and keep about a 70º angle or so, not this 45º stuff. Keep your head up somewhat to keep the spine in a good position. I also much prefer to grab the weight from a standing position so that I can get my back ready, instead of picking up the bar while already bent over.

What I would like to see is the re-explanation of the difference between a wide pronated grip versus a narrow supinated grip GoPro or someone had a good explanation but I have not been able to re-locate it.

 

[TapRackBang]

I appreciate the input. I think I may keep doing them since I don't have easy access to lat pulldown equipment. I don't have a lot of other options. I'm just going to be careful, use lighter weights, and work on proper form.

TapRackBang

 

[Mudge]

I'm right handed but for whatever reason I like left leg forward best, I suppose the right leg keeps the balance and the left just does the grunt work. I'm 6'2" and I can't really imagine not using the leg for stability, I already have random back issues from time to time just in daily life, so I dont push my luck.

 

[OceanDude]

TopRack - look into T-bar rows too. And of course, never discount good ol fashioned pull ups (palms facing outward) if you have enough enought strength to do a full set yet.

If you want to do stripping/decline kind of sets (one of my favorites) you can get a bench in front of the dumbell rack and do isolation dumbell rows with your leg on the bench and keep dumping weight in 20 lb increments or so as you fatigue.

 

[TapRackBang]

Hey OceanDude,

I'm doing assisted pull-ups as part of my routine now. I can only do one or two unassisted, but I'm working my way up to being able to do them for reps.

Could you explain T-bar rows and isolation dumbell rows to me or direct me to them here?

I appreciate your help.

TapRackBang

 

[Mudge]

It is basically a barbell with a handle on one end, with the other end fixated on a hinge. So this is typically a somewhat narrow grip.

 

[OceanDude]

Originally posted by TapRackBang
Hey OceanDude,

I'm doing assisted pull-ups as part of my routine now. I can only do one or two unassisted, but I'm working my way up to being able to do them for reps.

Could you explain T-bar rows and isolation dumbell rows to me or direct me to them here?

I appreciate your help.

TapRackBang

Its jsut a crude machine where you load up free weights onto what is called a T-bar (its shaped like a T). Yous stand on a platfrom with back bet about 45 degrees and bend down and lift the weights with the T-bar handle (which permits wide grip or close grip or mid grip) using the back muscles. It's a good machine since its very close to free weights and puts a lot of concentration on the back muscles. I suppose you could emulate this if you do not have one at your gym with a barbell. Just lay the barbell on the ground and lift it from one end by gripping the bar right behind the weights on one end only while straddling the bar between your legs.

 

[Mudge]

It would get ugly once you started using 2+ plates though, it would be a crotch smasher.

 

[Freeman]

Originally posted by TapRackBang
Hey OceanDude,

I'm doing assisted pull-ups as part of my routine now. I can only do one or two unassisted, but I'm working my way up to being able to do them for reps.

Could you explain T-bar rows and isolation dumbell rows to me or direct me to them here?

I appreciate your help.

TapRackBang

You should scratch those assisted pullups IMO. This is what helped me. Pick a number, say like 20 (that's what I did) and force yourself to get to 20 no matter what. if it takes 10 sets of 2 reps, so be it. You might want to start out with 10 the first time or two, but it's a really good way to get off that damn assisted machine and actually work your muscles!

 

[P-funk]

You should scratch those assisted pullups IMO. This is what helped me. Pick a number, say like 20 (that's what I did) and force yourself to get to 20 no matter what. if it takes 10 sets of 2 reps, so be it. You might want to start out with 10 the first time or two, but it's a really good way to get off that damn assisted machine and actually work your muscles!

This is a great approach to pull ups. this is exactley what I used to do back in the day when I could only get about 8 body weight pull ups. I would come in on back day and do 50 pull ups first thing. I did as many sets as I needed to until I got to 50. I really helped out, not only in strength gains but in putting on some great size.

Also, if you want to look at this biomechanicaly....I'm sorry I always do this guys, all of my answers look at things from either a biomechanic or motor learning standpoint and I realize some of you probably don't care at all but here it is for those that are interested. Biomechanically when performing a pull up your base of support is the area were your hands touch the pull up bar. Whe you are doing an assisted pull up your base of support is the area where your feet are touching the assistance pad. So biomechanically this resemples a pull down more closely than a pull up. Will assisted pull ups help you do a real pull up? Well, they can give you the strength in your latisimus dorsi and elbow flexors to do a body weight pull up BUT when it comes down to it you still need to formulate the proper motor pattern for stabalizing yourself over, or in this case under, your base of support. This is why people typically swing when they do pull ups, they are trying to solve for an equilibrium problem were they are unable to stablize over their center of gravity.

 

[OceanDude]

Interesting p-funk.
I have never liked those silly compressed air partial assisted pullup machines myself - no matter what % you dial in you always rely on the silly thing and never seem to really do the work yourself. I could never feel like I got a workout with them. I personally just use to do heavy lat pull downs for a month while I worked on weight loss. When I got consistently 20 lbs over my body weight on the lat pull downs I started doing regular pullups and then would go do partials on the smith machine after I was exhausted and let me feet touch the floor for partial assist. Interesting info on that biomechanical jazz and it makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[TapRackBang]

Got it Oceandude. Thanks for the ideas all.

Hey freeman1504, how does 20 sets of ONE sound? That might be what I'm shooting for. I'll give it a shot though and see if I can't get my back stronger more quickly that way. My entire upper body is my weakest area, so I need it.

P-funk, I usually end up looking at things scientifically anyway, so I appreciate your explanations. . .

TapRackBang

 

[Mudge]

The assisted pullups at both of the gyms I have been at lately are rack weights, not air, and I used to use them

 

[Freeman]

Tap: That sounds fine. You have to start somewhere man, and do whatever it takes. Train hard!

Pudge: The ones at my old gym were the same, and the gym I went to before that. I used them way back in the day, until a big guy was like "what the hell are you doing!?" and got me to start doing them the way I described to Tap.

 

[Mudge]

I see your reasoning buuut the assisted are not that lame. They got me going.