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Suggestions or Cycles For Deca , Test and Clomid

hurtyhair4u

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Ok , it's just about time here for me to start this deal . I've researched and studied . I've saved and saved and now it's time for the connection to come through .

Here's the deal . I'm going to get myself set with some Deca , Test and Clomid .
I'm looking for some advice or cycle examples . Or just some advice that anybody could offer up that would be helpful .

Some personal info before everyone hops on me

Age = 28
Hieght = 5'8"
Training = over 5 years
Diet = Mostly good ( I slip as much as the next guy )

I've been training for years now and always seem to top off at 180lbs .

Anything helpful would be appriciated :thumb:
 
Keep test to deca ratio about 2:1, some do not follow that, but most who break the rule that I've seen are national competitors who may not care.

Other than that, follow the same research we've all read.
 
Mudge , I knew i'd get a responce from you Bro . Thanks for responding . I must say that i'm a little weary of this but i feel that i'd be able to regiment myself correctly and follow specific guidelines and diet practices . I was just looking for some insight as this would be my first cycle . I appriciate the responce .

Anyone have any experiance with this stack ? Anything I should excpect or be prepared for ?
 
What kind of test? How much per week? I'd probably go with 400-500mg of test, but some use less (250 per week) for a first cycle.

Are you going to front load at all or just use it the same throughout? Nothing to kick start it off oral wise like dbol?

The only thing I could say to watch out for would be the nipples, or sore injection sites. If you get itchy or sore nipples then you know gyno is starting, grab some nolvadex just incase.

Some people might use say 500 test and 400 deca and don't have problems with it, everyone is different.

What kind of protein intake per pound are you looking at?
 
No front load , that is if I understand you correctly . No kick start and the dosages throughout will gradually increse then taper off near the end .

Now with the Nolvadex , i thought that the Clomid was used for the same purpose ( anti Est ) Not really an anti Est but something to bring natural test production back . From what I've read there is simalir uses for both Clomid and Nolvadex . Am i misunderstanding ?

As far as protien , I figure that 1.5 to 2 gams per pound of body wieght . Too much , too little ?
 
Clomid vs. Nolvadex
http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10528

You may be fine on what your going to use, some people though get gyno very easily, I would rather be prepared than be sorry. Some prefer only nolvadex for post cycle, some use both, etc.

Protein sounds good I spose, some go as high as 3, I may try for 2 dunno, I'm at 1.6 now and not on any goodies. Not everyone agrees on diet, some say go balls to the wall right off the bat, straight to 6k calories or whatever, some move up slowly. Since you wont see any results for 3 or 4 weeks anyway (most likely since no kick start), I might taper up my diet along the way. Some claim to make crap gains on a clean diet, so its thats one your going to have to figure out for yourself I suppose. Pizza, ice cream, etc is a favorite for some people, NPC competitors included, along with the protein requirements of course.

I would recommend against tapering your stuff at all, especially at the end.
 
If you are planning a X week cycle, the goal is to be at highest blood concentrations for as many of the X weeks as possible.


If you use a long ester such as deca at xmg/week, it will take you 4-5 weeks to build up to max blood concentrations possible for xmg/week. So half of your cycle is not wasted, but you are not maximizing efficiency.

When coming off a cycle, the waiting period before clomid therapy begins will vary depending on the type and dose of the AAS. If you ran 500mg/week of deca for 10 weeks, a month after your last shot, you will still have around 200mg of esterified deca in your system. This is more than enough to prevent recovery. This is the reason why recovery is more difficult with a deca (or another long acting ester).

Let's calculate the amount accumulated in the body after 6 weeks of 500mg/deca. Let's say you inject it once a week and we'll give it a 1.5 week half life. Note that injection frequency makes a huge difference in blood concentration stability but no difference in amount of esterified in the system

E (greek letter "sigma") 500*e^(ln(1/2)n/1.5) from n=0 to n=6. So after 6 weeks, about 1300mg of esterified nandrolone remain in the body.

Now lets see how long, after the initial injection, it takes to reduce to a small enough amount that permits recovery.

1300*e^(ln(1/2)n/1.5) After 3 weeks, 325 mg of esterified remain

after 6 weeks, 81 mg of esterified remain.

After 8 weeks, 32mg of esterified remain.


Most guys go with "time on=time off." This will not work with long esters as I have demonstrated above. For at least a month after your last shot you are in what I call a "time in-effiency" period where you are no longer reaping the benefits of you AAS but you are not recovering either. The goal of the modern cycle is to minimize this wasted time.

The key components are:
1) Front end loading this cuts down on wasted time in the beginning of your cycle waiting for the doses to reach full theraputic levels. This concept has been used before but (as far as I know) I was the first one to quantify it mathmatically. Zyg has taken the math one step further with a graph showing, visually, the importance. Graph of eq loading

The use of orals in the beginning of a cycle is a popular component of a cycle. While I don't feel it is a nessecity, it too is a (different) type of front end load. For the advnaced BBer, dbol should be taken in the beginning of a cycle as well as loading the injectables since the anabolic response from dbol is alleged to be by a different mechanism than most injectables. If one had to chose between a dbol load and and injectable load, in most cases, the injectable load should be prefered over the dbol load.

2) Injection frequency This is crucial to obtaining even blood concentrations of androgens. Ideally, the more often injected, the better. An acceptable rule of thumb is "inject at half of the half life." For instance, if the half life of a steroid is 7 days, this should be injected at least twice weekly. For cycles that involve multiple injectables, the injections should be fractioned out and divided up based on the injectable with the shortest half life. For instance, if you were doing a test propionate and deca cycle, the old school way to do it would be to inject the prop EOD and the deca once a week. Both compounds should not be viewed as separate, but together with total androgen concentration taken into consideration. If you injected the deca only once a week, probably along with one of the propionate injections, that day will have a much larger spike on total blood androgen concentrations. Instead, the deca should be split up and taken with the propionate injections, EOD. This way there is no one day of the week that has a "spike" and even blood concentrations are maintained throughout the week.

3) Ending the cycle Switching to shorter esters toward the end of a cycle makes perfect sence however not too many guys incorporate this practice- perhaps because of the lack of variety of drugs. The modern cycle should include replacing long ester injectables with shorter ones so that recovery time is made more efficient. The necesity of switching to shorter esters toward the end of a cycle depends on the type of drugs used. Longer esters such as deca and eq should be replaced with shorter acting versions of these compounds no later than four weeks before the end of a cycle. Medium length esters such as t-enanthate and cypionate should be replaced no later than three weeks before the end of a cycle. A couple examples of appropriate replacements are: trenbolone acetate and testosterone propionate. There is no need to "load" these compounds in the middle of a cycle since 1) they are already "fast acting" and 2) blood androgen concentrations are already high.

4) Recovery With the replacement of the faster acting injectables toward the end of a cycle, the "wasted" time between the end of a cycle and beginning of clomid therapy is reduced. For instance, if 100mg TA is used ED, clomid therapy may begin in as little as 5 days after the last shot. This tremendously impoves time efficiency. Clomid therapy usually last for four weeks. An excellent thread posted by The Iron Game describes this in further detail Clomid FAQ's .

When the above recomendations are made, your cycle itself is made much more efficient and if recovery time is made more efficient as well, time "off" AAS may very well be reduced so that the overall efficiency of AAS use over time is tremendously improved.


Andy
 
Now, I present to you a little chart that represents both frequency of injection AND front loading. For the standard no load cycle I used deca, 400mg a week total with 100mg shot on mon, wed, fri and sunday. The next represents the first two weeks frontloaded at 800mg total, 4x injections of 200mg each done on monday, wed, fri and sunday. With the remainder of the cycle shooting 4x 100mg injections on mon, wed, fri and sun. And last but not least, we have the one week frontload of 1200mg in 4 shots, 4x 300mg each done on mon, wed, fri and sunday. With the remainder of the cycle shooting 4x 100mg injections on mon, wed, fri and sun.

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Keep us informed of your gains on DECA hurty. I am having the same problem as you (been training for a long time but am stuck on 180 lb.)

/Zed
 
Muscle Gelz Transdermals
IronMag Labs Prohormones
Its impossible to gain weight without food, it doesn't come from the water you drink or the air you breath.

This is how people either get fat, or get muscular, food.
 
Zed , Will let you know . I'm still back and forth on this whole issue . Really want the results but want to avoid any side effects or false gains .

Mudge , I appriciate all the great info !! Thank you sir . :thumb:
 
That's what I was going to say. If you're STUCK at 180, then eat more. If you get fat no matter what you do over 180, but only marginally stronger, then you're close to your genetic limit. Before you start your cycle, check out your training (you may be overtraining), check out your diet, and carefully examine what might be going wrong.

If you do a cycle, but then go back to your old ways once you come off, you WILL lose your gains. NOTHING is more depressing than finally gaining those 10 pounds you've been dying for, and then watching them drop off one by one. Steroids do not take the place of intelligent training, they simply supplement it. Just looking out for you, bro. Nobody wants to see you do a cycle, then lose your gains and get depressed. What's your training and diet like right now?

Anyway, I'd stay the HELL away from deca. It's hell on recovery. Why not use EQ? Maybe marginally more estrogenic/androgenic sides, but not much, also has much easier post-cycle recovery, and is usually cheaper. It's the perfect steroid, IMO.
 
Deca sits in the system along time and is apperantly hard recoup from as Belial said, I am not sure if EQ is the same way (doesn't sound like it I take it?) but alot of people seem to prefer it over deca if you can get it.
 
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