Summer cutting diet (refeeds)

[sicko]

Hello people.

I am 21 year old,1.70 m tall and weigh around 66-67 kg.Staring my Bsc (Sport and Ex Science) this year after finishing the compulsory army in a month. I am pretty cut around 6% - 7% ,nice abs, and good muscle with veins.

My current diet looks like

(3 Times a week 30 mins cardio in the morning(with ECA Stack+herbal diuretic), 3-4 times weight lifting afternoon)

10 am 70 gm Oats + 7 egg whites +fishoil+ flaxseed oil (If after morning cardio i skip the essential fats and add r-ALA)

13 pm Chicken Breast+ small Salad

3 .30 pm (pre workout) 70 gm Oat bran + 7 egg whites +fishoil+ flaxseed oil

Workout at 4.30 am (Weight Lifting)

5.30 pm (post workout) 70 gm Oatmeal + 7 Egg whites + r-ALA (100mg)

8.30 pm Perch (Fish one portion) + small salad

11.30 pm Chicken Breast +fish oil +flaxseed oil

1.30 am Sleep

I supplement with Multi Vitamin, Vitamin B Complex (Very strong 2000%) , Vitamin E. Dandellion root pill 3 times a day .It ;s a natural diuretic and digestive enzyme and I am never bloated because of it. My sodium is extremely low and had problems in the past. i Have just added (2 weeks ago) a Potassium Supplement Pill 4-5 times a day and damn it makes a huge difference since I lose a lot of water amount due to dandellion.(makes me sharper and fuller). (intra-cellurar water instead of skin water)

Now I dont need any comments on changing oats to something else (free to say if you want ) i really like that staff , never get bored, and it makes my digestive system extremely effective.

Now , I usually do my refeeds once a week . Usually I am not extremely tired like i used to with my diet 2-3 years ago (where my carbs were around 30-40 a day fucked up) but i believe in Leptin Levels.

It 's being 2 months that I do my refeeds . It 's a 12 hour refeed from the time i wake up to the time i go to sleep.
My refeed is very low in protein, no fructose, , extremely low in fat and only High -GI.

In 12 hour time I eat 1 Special K package , 1 Puffed Rice (Kellogs) package , 300gm-400gm White rice (with tomatoes ,or spinach for taste and 13 gms protein from chicken), 2 jacket potatoes with corn . WELL a lot OF CARBS!!! On that day I usually take 3 r-ALA every meal .
I do a 30-40 mins All muscle workout and at the end i eat 200 gm of HIgh GI carbs (white rice) with r-ALA. My muscles get pumped like crazy , Veins all around. And Yes i am not bloated at all and I think this is due to r-ALA and due to the fact that i dont want any Fibre at all in my refeed day.

The next day I am back to the diet and that amount of water held is gone easily due to the dandellion. Note: I do not take any other supplements on refeed day.Just r-ALA.

Well give me please your comments, your advices . How many refeeds i need in a week , comment on diet. My refeeds do not occur due to tiredness , but my psychological belief in the Leptins Level. ur comments?

Thanks

Nicholas

 

[grant]

ever investigate using a leptigen supp. to curb the necessity or even length of your refeed?

 

[juggernaut]

I follow a similiar diet for my contest. It basically differs in two ways. I dont use Hgh GI carbs and it last two days with tons of complex carbs. If I use high GI carbs (except around workout time) I get fat.

Try my way, if you really like oats like I do and it seems like you do, put a high emphasis on oats and see if works for you.

 

[juggernaut]

i got a question: Does anyone really fart badly when taking the time for refeeding?

 

[Emma-Leigh]

Now I dont need any comments on changing oats to something else (free to say if you want )

Your diet looks ok. A few comments I'll make (feel free to ignore them):
1. It needs more vegetables (2 small salads a day is not going to do it)
2. Consider a peice of fruit (your diet is viod of micronutrients)
3. Decrease omega-6 fats and add in mono-unsaturated fats (replace 1 or 2 of the flaxseed oils with olive oil) and spread the fats around (for example - just have fish oil pre-workout, take out the flaxseed oil and add olive oil in the meal previously instead)

Now , I usually do my refeeds once a week . Usually I am not extremely tired like i used to with my diet 2-3 years ago (where my carbs were around 30-40 a day fucked up) but i believe in Leptin Levels....

Well give me please your comments, your advices . How many refeeds i need in a week , comment on diet. My refeeds do not occur due to tiredness , but my psychological belief in the Leptins Level. ur comments?

Re-feeding frequency will depend on your calorie intake, your carbs intake, your BF%, your activity, as well as your body type and goals. If you want to maintain and if what you are currently doing is achieving your goals then stick to it.

So - look at a few things:
1. Calorie intake is ?? - but it certainly doesn't look like much. Although I am unsure as you do not put quantities for your fish/flax oil... If I based on the other things (whole foods) + if I guess that you are eating whole chicken breasts, large egg whites and taking 2 x fish oils + 0.5 tbs flax (when you take it) then:

70g oats + 7 whites + fish + flax = 271 + (7 x 17) + (2 x 18) + 65

Chicken Breast + small Salad = 260 + neg. cals

70g Oat bran + 7 whites + fish + flax = 170 + (7x 17) + (2 x 18) + 65

70g Oat + 7 whites = 271 + (7 x 17)

Perch + small salad = ? assuming 4 oz ~120 + neg. cals

Chicken Breast + fish + flax = 260 + (2 x 18) + 65

TOTAL ~ 2000 cals
If you have 1 tbs of flax them this increases to = 2200

2. carb intake is ~ 2 x 70g oats + 70g oatbran = 45 + 45 + 30 = 120g.
This is not a lot of carbs (not even 1g per pound lean mass)

3. You are sub 10%

4. You are moderate-highly active (7 sessions exercise/week + daily life)

5. You are young

So all these suggest you need frequent re-feeds and once/week may or may not be enough... You could try one every 5 days and see if you require it....

But as I said - if what you are doing is working then don't change.

There is a good article here if you want to read it...

 

[SPIKE1257]

There is a good article here if you want to read it...

Great article.. thx I didn't realize that fats needed to be that high, during the diet and the refeed.. I kept mine lower, more around 40 grams..

 

[sicko]

Your diet looks ok. A few comments I'll make (feel free to ignore them):
1. It needs more vegetables (2 small salads a day is not going to do it)
2. Consider a peice of fruit (your diet is viod of micronutrients)
3. Decrease omega-6 fats and add in mono-unsaturated fats (replace 1 or 2 of the flaxseed oils with olive oil) and spread the fats around (for example - just have fish oil pre-workout, take out the flaxseed oil and add olive oil in the meal previously instead)


Re-feeding frequency will depend on your calorie intake, your carbs intake, your BF%, your activity, as well as your body type and goals. If you want to maintain and if what you are currently doing is achieving your goals then stick to it.

So - look at a few things:
1. Calorie intake is ?? - but it certainly doesn't look like much. Although I am unsure as you do not put quantities for your fish/flax oil... If I based on the other things (whole foods) + if I guess that you are eating whole chicken breasts, large egg whites and taking 2 x fish oils + 0.5 tbs flax (when you take it) then:

70g oats + 7 whites + fish + flax = 271 + (7 x 17) + (2 x 18) + 65

Chicken Breast + small Salad = 260 + neg. cals

70g Oat bran + 7 whites + fish + flax = 170 + (7x 17) + (2 x 18) + 65

70g Oat + 7 whites = 271 + (7 x 17)

Perch + small salad = ? assuming 4 oz ~120 + neg. cals

Chicken Breast + fish + flax = 260 + (2 x 18) + 65

TOTAL ~ 2000 cals
If you have 1 tbs of flax them this increases to = 2200

2. carb intake is ~ 2 x 70g oats + 70g oatbran = 45 + 45 + 30 = 120g.
This is not a lot of carbs (not even 1g per pound lean mass)

3. You are sub 10%

4. You are moderate-highly active (7 sessions exercise/week + daily life)

5. You are young

So all these suggest you need frequent re-feeds and once/week may or may not be enough... You could try one every 5 days and see if you require it....

But as I said - if what you are doing is working then don't change.

There is a good article here if you want to read it...

Hmm, if I do my refeeds every 3 days instead of once a week ,shall I switch to Low GI Carbs?I am probably eating 3 x times my daily calorie with High GI Carbs and I dont even get bloated. The next 1-2 days I am still under 6 to 7%. Although If iam going to follow with Low GI i think i will get bloated.(all the fibre ).

I can also use only HIGH GI (every 3 days) with 2 x times my daily calorie instead of 3x .(well that would spill my triple-orgy-refeed day damn )

What do you think?

PS When I said about the salad I actually mean a salad consisting of tomatoes,cucumber,lettuce,olive oil,and some boiled(broccoli or green beans)

 

[juggernaut]

what bout the farting question-I'mbeing serious!

 

[sicko]

what bout the farting question-I'mbeing serious!

Well , i used to fart a lot when I had 500 grams of protein a day .

I used to fart a lot when i had 100 grams of fibre a day.

But like I said on my refeed day my protein is very low, and fibre is nearly 0. Therefore , no i dont fart. I also think the huge amount of r-Alpha lipoic helps to digest lots of carbs. I once tried to use the r-ALA with low carbs and I was lethargic and sleepy and low pressured all the day. Then i knew that the supplement would work with lots of carbs.

But i think you said that you go Low-Gi on your refeed day therefore i assume you get a lot of fibre that causes you bloating and farting. Like i said i am afraid to go low-GI on my refeed due to that reason and I think the more insulin the more Leptin pumping.And damn i feel it.

 

[sicko]

Hmm, fructose during a refeed???

I dont use any fructose. Just the amount I get from cereals. I think fructose would not help much more than just filling my liver-storage(and stomach).

 

[grant]

I dont use any fructose. Just the amount I get from cereals. I think fructose would not help much more than just filling my liver-storage(and stomach).

I wasn't referring to you but rather the article....sorry for confusion

 

[Emma-Leigh]

I wasn't referring to you but rather the article....sorry for confusion

A little bit of fructose is a good thing when re-feeding and the amount from 2-3 serves of fruit (say 0.5 serves split into 6 meals) will not significantly fill 'liver glycogen' to any degree (1 serve fruit has 3-9g fructose, depending on the fruit, so you are looking at between 9-27g at the most).

Fruit will help restore total body glycogen levels and help to trigger that 'fed' state that re-feeds aim to do (one of the things that helps with leptin and other hormones).... Fructose is one of the reasons why TP includes fruit in his carb-cycling program.

 

[Emma-Leigh]

Great article.. thx I didn't realize that fats needed to be that high, during the diet and the refeed.. I kept mine lower, more around 40 grams..

I would not use the ratio's suggested... I would keep fats very low during refeed day (basically stick to 6-10g fish oils + 'tag along fats' from foods) and, increase your carbs a little more (or add a little more protein) if you need more calories.

 

[Emma-Leigh]

Hmm, if I do my refeeds every 3 days instead of once a week ,shall I switch to Low GI Carbs?I am probably eating 3 x times my daily calorie with High GI Carbs and I dont even get bloated. The next 1-2 days I am still under 6 to 7%. Although If iam going to follow with Low GI i think i will get bloated.(all the fibre ).

I can also use only HIGH GI (every 3 days) with 2 x times my daily calorie instead of 3x .(well that would spill my triple-orgy-refeed day damn )

What do you think?

As I said before - If what you are doing now is working to reach your goals then you could stick with it. Don't go re-feeding more than needed because people say you should. All that will happen is that you will get fat.

If you DO want to change/test things then consider doing it much more slowly - try one refeed every 5 days for a few weeks. If your BF% increases then go back to what you do now. If it does you no harm then you could then try a re-feed once every 3 days...

But I certainly wouldn't increase the frequency to 3 x a week and stick to the same food load as you are doing now...

If you just want to temp it then try once every 5 days at your normal food load...

OR... decrease your load to ~1.25 x maintainence. So, with your stats I would think your maintainence would be close-ish to 2600 cals, which would mean you want to re-feed at about 3200 cals. So you could try a re-feed with something like, every 5 days, try:
130-170g protein (1-1.25 x lean mass) - say 150g for a happy medium
Less than 40g fat (0.3 x lean mass) - 6g being fish oils
~550g carbs (4 x lean mass)
If this doesn't spill over then slowly work your way up to find your 'breaking point'.

Similarly, you could try once/3 days on 1.25 x maintainence.

I would also do a mix of low and high GI carbs - stick to your higher GI at the beginning of the re-feed (post-workout) and then gradually ween onto lower GI over the course of things (need not be too high in fibre if you don't want bloat). But I don't think your re-feed foods are too bad at the moment.

PS When I said about the salad I actually mean a salad consisting of tomatoes,cucumber,lettuce,olive oil,and some boiled(broccoli or green beans)

Yum (that is exactly like the ones I have - only I add mushrooms )... But maybe add another one or two (minus the oil) to some of your other meals as well.

 

[juggernaut]

3x a week does sound excessive.

 

[grant]

3x a week does sound excessive.

I agree, I have enough trouble refeeding once a week much less 3x

 

[sicko]

As I said before - If what you are doing now is working to reach your goals then you could stick with it. Don't go re-feeding more than needed because people say you should. All that will happen is that you will get fat.

If you DO want to change/test things then consider doing it much more slowly - try one refeed every 5 days for a few weeks. If your BF% increases then go back to what you do now. If it does you no harm then you could then try a re-feed once every 3 days...

But I certainly wouldn't increase the frequency to 3 x a week and stick to the same food load as you are doing now...

If you just want to temp it then try once every 5 days at your normal food load...

OR... decrease your load to ~1.25 x maintainence. So, with your stats I would think your maintainence would be close-ish to 2600 cals, which would mean you want to re-feed at about 3200 cals. So you could try a re-feed with something like, every 5 days, try:
130-170g protein (1-1.25 x lean mass) - say 150g for a happy medium
Less than 40g fat (0.3 x lean mass) - 6g being fish oils
~550g carbs (4 x lean mass)
If this doesn't spill over then slowly work your way up to find your 'breaking point'.

Similarly, you could try once/3 days on 1.25 x maintainence.

I would also do a mix of low and high GI carbs - stick to your higher GI at the beginning of the re-feed (post-workout) and then gradually ween onto lower GI over the course of things (need not be too high in fibre if you don't want bloat). But I don't think your re-feed foods are too bad at the moment.


Yum (that is exactly like the ones I have - only I add mushrooms )... But maybe add another one or two (minus the oil) to some of your other meals as well.

Emma, I have some questions. Refeeding once a week makes (now that im stricly dieting for summer) makes me having very low blood pressure the last 2-3 days before my refeed. I mean , damn ihave 6 -7 % fat with perfect abs with veins below, but the veins on my hands and arms look like disappearing at the end of week because of the damn low pressure.This is very annoying(also muscle looks like starving). Then the day i refeed , people look at me and get scared from my veins that pump all through my legs ,arms and chest.The muscle pump increases by 50%!.

Ok, that refeed was full of HIGH -GI only and much salt from cereals.

I have tried today to do a refeed (every 4th day) but stricly loading my self with ( LOTS OF CARBS) but only lowGI. I damn love oats-oatbran and I can eat as much as 800 -1000gms of those carbs in a day (every 3-4 hours). It's 1 oclock and after having 2 meals ( 8.00 am and 12.00 am ) with 200 gms(each meal!) of oats/oat bran and 4 egg whites and 300 grams of r-ALA before each meal my muscles are pumped like hell and feeling glycogen restored.Not sleepy at all.(Just last night at yhe club at around 1.30 i felt like my muscle was going to tear off and was soft). I could not go with my daily diet for 2 days more until my High -GI refeed.

How is my approach looking? I mean , iam going to fill my self with lots of carbs with only LOW -GI , moderate protein but every 3 days instead every 6 of high gi.
The fact that i do not use sodium at all during this refeed, + r-ALA I look drained as hell but pumped,looking nice!

Anyway , i wouldnt go with the approach of HIGH -GI at the begininng,finishing with low-GI. I dont know why , cause it disturbs my straight thinking .

 

[sicko]

Note : In my original post i said that I would not feel weak but i would do my refeed.

This month, I am released from the army and I am mostly active going to the sea every day (live in CYPRUS ,europe), working out , clubbing etc. Therefore a feel low pressured at the end of the week with soft muscle,and weak.

 

[juggernaut]

how many times are you going to mention 6-7% bodyfat?

 

[sicko]

how many times are you going to mention 6-7% bodyfat?

huh?

By the way. It is 9.00 pm of my refeed day with oats. And well. I AM NOT DOING IT AGAIN. ALL that fibre caused my %£""%£ stomach problems a pfff...At around 4.30 pm I could not sit on a chair.I could not bend . I Forced my self to sleep until 9.00 (now), drank hot water with emtpy stomach,and went to the toilet. I feel much better now well.....HIGH GI Staff never caused me such problems even with overfeeding . Fibre was 0.

I have eaten 500-600 gram of oats(50% oat bran) till 4.30 pm..Damn.....thats er....40-50 fibre....

 

[99hawkins]

(3 Times a week 30 mins cardio in the morning(with ECA Stack+herbal diuretic), 3-4 times weight lifting afternoon)

10 am 70 gm Oats + 7 egg whites +fishoil+ flaxseed oil (If after morning cardio i skip the essential fats and add r-ALA)

13 pm Chicken Breast+ small Salad

3 .30 pm (pre workout) 70 gm Oat bran + 7 egg whites +fishoil+ flaxseed oil

Workout at 4.30 am (Weight Lifting)

5.30 pm (post workout) 70 gm Oatmeal + 7 Egg whites + r-ALA (100mg)

8.30 pm Perch (Fish one portion) + small salad

11.30 pm Chicken Breast +fish oil +flaxseed oil

1.30 am Sleep

I supplement with Multi Vitamin, Vitamin B Complex (Very strong 2000%) , Vitamin E. Dandellion root pill 3 times a day .It ;s a natural diuretic and digestive enzyme

Christ, you are a machine! Do you shit oil and tablets?

Joking mate, very discliplined diet there! My admirations.