Supersetting

[mike456]

Does supersetting effect stength gains?
I will be doing an upper horizontal/vertical, and I would like to superset opposite movements to save time and get the workout done quicker. So on horizontal day I will be supersetting Flat Bench with Yates rows, then resting for about 1 min and repeating. I just did it with Shoulder Press, and Assisted Pull-ups, and I liked it because instead of sitting waiting for the Rest Interval to finish, I saved some time and did the pullups after the shoulder presses.
So my question is will it be bad since my goals are strength? I can't think of any reason how it could be, but just making sure.

 

[JordanMang]

Does supersetting effect stength gains?
I will be doing an upper horizontal/vertical, and I would like to superset opposite movements to save time and get the workout done quicker. So on horizontal day I will be supersetting Flat Bench with Yates rows, then resting for about 1 min and repeating. I just did it with Shoulder Press, and Assisted Pull-ups, and I liked it because instead of sitting waiting for the Rest Interval to finish, I saved some time and did the pullups after the shoulder presses.
So my question is will it be bad since my goals are strength? I can't think of any reason how it could be, but just making sure.

Hmm, not sure. Haven't done much research on the subject. I'd say it'd be more geared towards endurance, but I could be wrong. It kind of goes against all strength training ideas? Lower rep, long rest intervals, CNS recovery.

 

[mike456]

Hmm, not sure. Haven't done much research on the subject. I'd say it'd be more geared towards endurance, but I could be wrong. It kind of goes against all strength training ideas? Lower rep, long rest intervals, CNS recovery.

I think if you do opposite movements it would not be geared towards endurance. For example: Flat Bench and Rows, how could it be geared towards muscular endurance if they work opposite muscles?
But if you are talking about cardiovascular endurance, yea I think it is geared towards that.

But if you supersetted Flat Bench with Dips, that is definitly geared towards muscular endurance, and goes against strength training ideas.

But opposite movements, I don't know, that is why I asked the question

 

[JordanMang]

I think if you do opposite movements it would not be geared towards endurance. For example: Flat Bench and Rows, how could it be geared towards muscular endurance if they work opposite muscles?
But if you are talking about cardiovascular endurance, yea I think it is geared towards that.

But if you supersetted Flat Bench with Dips, that is definitly geared towards muscular endurance, and goes against strength training ideas.

But opposite movements, I don't know, that is why I asked the question

Well, cardiovascular wise I don't think it has anything to do with endurance. The only thing that gets me breathing hard cardiovasuclar wise is the powerclean. I still think it'd be adverse to strength straining. Like I said CNS recover plays a big role in getting stronger.

 

[mike456]

Well, cardiovascular wise I don't think it has anything to do with endurance. The only thing that gets me breathing hard cardiovasuclar wise is the powerclean. I still think it'd be adverse to strength straining. Like I said CNS recover plays a big role in getting stronger.

That sucks, I was hoping it would not effect strength gains. With the supersets it will be fun 22min workouts.
Without supersets it will be boring 36min workouts.
(I technically timed the workouts with the temp/sets/reps/rest intervals with supersets and without supersets- yes I know I am a training nerd)
36 min may sound short but with the Warm-up, dynamic flexibility, and static stretching it adds up.

 

[P-funk]

place rest between the two exercises to work on more strength oriented supersets. I typically do upper and lower supersets (with rest between exercises) to keep away from doing all upper body. But that is up to you.

 

[SuperFlex]

Does supersetting effect stength gains?
I will be doing an upper horizontal/vertical, and I would like to superset opposite movements to save time and get the workout done quicker. So on horizontal day I will be supersetting Flat Bench with Yates rows, then resting for about 1 min and repeating. I just did it with Shoulder Press, and Assisted Pull-ups, and I liked it because instead of sitting waiting for the Rest Interval to finish, I saved some time and did the pullups after the shoulder presses.
So my question is will it be bad since my goals are strength? I can't think of any reason how it could be, but just making sure.

Supersets work great! You can still improve your strength even when you're not fully rested. If the weights are increasing over the course of your superset routines then so is your strength. When you go back to straight sets you might be shocked with how good your gains are. Supersetting opposing bodyparts may be a different story, but I doubt it. It's a great way to save time and up intensity...

 

[AKIRA]

Id say it depends on how youre conditioned now. For instance, I am doing the same type of workout as you (upper/lower/upper). And though I am not supersetting, I will do a set of flat DB press, rest 30-60 sec then do another set of DB Flat Press before hitting the DB rows. In other words, I finish all my sets of one exercise before doing the next.

The only thing about this is, my strength gains have fallen cuz of how much out of breath I was. I have ALWAYS done 2-3min of rest and going down to 30sec was killer. In order for me to do a decent weight without failure, I am going to have to build up my 'wind' in order to progress.

Youre going 1 step further by supersetting. Id say you can make strength gains, but to use the same intensity as you would with even 60sec of rest may be real fucking tough.

Example: When I used to do 4 sets of 8 reps using 135lb DBs, I used 3min of rest in between sets.

Now with 30 sec up to 60 sec of rest, I do the same program but with 120lb DBs and I end up failing on my 3rd and 4th sets. Today, I failed with 115lbs, but when I can do these with ease, 2-3min rest will prolly give me a chance to lift some heavy fucking weight.

 

[mike456]

Id say it depends on how youre conditioned now. For instance, I am doing the same type of workout as you (upper/lower/upper). And though I am not supersetting, I will do a set of flat DB press, rest 30-60 sec then do another set of DB Flat Press before hitting the DB rows. In other words, I finish all my sets of one exercise before doing the next.

The only thing about this is, my strength gains have fallen cuz of how much out of breath I was. I have ALWAYS done 2-3min of rest and going down to 30sec was killer. In order for me to do a decent weight without failure, I am going to have to build up my 'wind' in order to progress.

Youre going 1 step further by supersetting. Id say you can make strength gains, but to use the same intensity as you would with even 60sec of rest may be real fucking tough.

Example: When I used to do 4 sets of 8 reps using 135lb DBs, I used 3min of rest in between sets.

Now with 30 sec up to 60 sec of rest, I do the same program but with 120lb DBs and I end up failing on my 3rd and 4th sets. Today, I failed with 115lbs, but when I can do these with ease, 2-3min rest will prolly give me a chance to lift some heavy fucking weight.

So basically what you are saying is if I don't get cardiovascularly tired from the lifting, it will be ok to superset without effect on strength gains, but If I get winded My weights will be effected.

 

[mike456]

Well I did Military Presses Supersetted with Assisted Pull-ups (To failure), and I was not winded. I did 3x5 with about 30 sec RI.

 

[P-funk]

rest longer if you are liftring for 5 reps. you want to make sure you get SOME neurological recovery.

 

[mike456]

place rest between the two exercises to work on more strength oriented supersets. I typically do upper and lower supersets (with rest between exercises) to keep away from doing all upper body. But that is up to you.

Thats a good idea.
So something like this?
1x5 Overhead Press rest 30 sec then SS with 1x5 Pull-ups then rest another minute? So that would give me 2 minutes rest between overhead press sets, but I will only be literally resting for 1min 30 sec each set for both exercises.
I think it is alot better than doing 1 set of Military Presses resting 2 min then continuing to the next set.

Not trying to be a dick- But can you just explain why I would even need to place rest between the two exercises (keep in mind I don't get winded when supersetting- I will only be doing it with upper body exercises)

 

[mike456]

rest longer if you are liftring for 5 reps. you want to make sure you get SOME neurological recovery.

What is that lol

 

[P-funk]

Thats a good idea.
So something like this?
1x5 Overhead Press rest 30 sec then SS with 1x5 Pull-ups then rest another minute? So that would give me 2 minutes rest between overhead press sets, but I will only be literally resting for 1min 30 sec each set for both exercises.
I think it is alot better than doing 1 set of Military Presses resting 2 min then continuing to the next set.

Not trying to be a dick- But can you just explain why I would even need to place rest between the two exercises (keep in mind I don't get winded when supersetting- I will only be doing it with upper body exercises)

you want to place rest so that your nervous system can recover and be able to recurit max amount of motor units to lift the heaviest load you possibly can for the rep range you are trying to hit for the given number of sets you are going for.

I would do it like this:

a1) overhead press- 5 reps
rest 2min
a2) chin up- 5 reps
rest 2min

that way you can really load up each exercise and work on strength.

if it is conditioning you want try

a1) overhead press- 10-12 reps
rest 60sec
a2) chin up- 10-12 reps
rest 60sec

or

a1) overhead press- 15 reps
rest 30sec
a2) chin up
rest 30sec

The rest interval has to do with what intensity you are working at, which then parallels the type of energy system you are trying to target.

 

[P-funk]

What is that lol

recovery of the nervous system.

 

[CowPimp]

Supersets are great for this. I currently do something like what P-funk mentioned:

Squat
Rest 2 minutes
Chinups
Rest 2 minutes
Repeat

Supersetting upper body push-pull movements is just fine though.

 

[mike456]

I wanted to superset exercises with no rest but I guess I will do this:
Military Press
Rest 90 sec
Chinup
Rest 90 sec
Repeat

Could I go any lower than 90 sec?

 

[CowPimp]

I wanted to superset exercises with no rest but I guess I will do this:
Military Press
Rest 90 sec
Chinup
Rest 90 sec
Repeat

Could I go any lower than 90 sec?

You can go as low as you want, depending on your goals.

 

[P-funk]

Supersets are great for this. I currently do something like what P-funk mentioned:

Squat
Rest 2 minutes
Chinups
Rest 2 minutes
Repeat

Supersetting upper body push-pull movements is just fine though.

yea, this is what cosgrove does/recommends and it works well for everyone from an athlete to a general population client looking to loose weight to a knuckle head looking to put on size. As he says....there has never been a study saying that moving from one exercise to the next after adequate rest would have any negative effects.

Now, Boyle on the other hand, doesn't have his athletes rest between the superset. Even when they train strength. But, they do upper and lower supersets all the time and then they go into a stabilization exercise and finish with a dynamic stretch as their acitve rest before starting the circuit over. They would looks like this:

a1) squat
a2) chin up
a3) bird dogs
a4) ankle rocking (mobility)

 

[mike456]

You can go as low as you want, depending on your goals.

What is the minimum I can go if my goal is strength?

 

[Bakerboy]

What is the minimum I can go if my goal is strength?

It depends how fit you are and how close to your max you lift. It's not that cut and dry, you have to experiment a bit.

 

[P-funk]

What is the minimum I can go if my goal is strength?

I say 2min. is the min. Typically for strength you want optimal recovery of the CNS, which is going to take 3+min. (3-5min is usually recommended).

 

[PWGriffin]

P-funk or CP could prolly answer this question....



When training for strength, u would want to utilize anaerobic energy pathways as much as possible right?? And to do this longer resting intervals are required yes?? Even between supersets?? I'm looking at a chart here that says Creatine phosphate stores drop off after 60 seconds, where glycolosis picks up...which then drops off after 120 seconds...at this time oxidation begins to peak..meaning the exercise/s performed become aerobic right??


Hmm, just saw your post about CNS recovery occuring between 3-5 minutes...this is also how long it takes to replenish ATP stores fully...is there a correlation between the two??

 

[CowPimp]

Hmm, just saw your post about CNS recovery occuring between 3-5 minutes...this is also how long it takes to replenish ATP stores fully...is there a correlation between the two??

Exactly. Maximal strength efforts are primarily powered by the phosphagen energy system, so that's one reason recovery takes longer.

 

[viet_jon]

a1) squat
a2) chin up
a3) bird dogs
a4) ankle rocking (mobility)

what are these?

 

[CowPimp]

For the birddogs (Though there are more advanced variations):
http://www.orthop.washington.edu/uw/backpain/tabID__3376/ItemID__265/Articles/Default.aspx

Ankles rocks, look at #3 videos:
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=06-101-training

 

[mike456]

Waht if you trained with heavy weight (1-5 reps), and used 30 sec RI, what would that do for you? Muscular Endurance?

 

[mike456]

I train heavy in low rep range with goals of strength, but I feel recovered after about a min of rest, should I go on to the next set when I feel recovered or wait the another minute or two?

 

[Bakerboy]

^
If you want to up your fitness Mike, I would skip for 30 seconds or do jumping jacks for 30 seconds between a few of your sets. To up the intensity you slowly up the time to 60 second rounds or increase the times you do it.

 

[CowPimp]

I train heavy in low rep range with goals of strength, but I feel recovered after about a min of rest, should I go on to the next set when I feel recovered or wait the another minute or two?

You may feel recovered, but you aren't. Neural recovery is something that's practically intangible (In the short term anyway).

If you wanted to use some heavy weights but accumulate a lot of volume you could use short rest intevals. For example, you could do 10 sets of 1 repetition using 45 second rest intervals or something like that. I just pulled those numbers out of my ass, and I don't know how well you would be able to keep that up, but I have done 8 sets of 3 repetitions using 60 second rest intervals before. It's a good way to get enough volume to stimulate hypertrophy while using heavy enough weights to invoke neural adaptations.