Taking M1T and Usnic Acid Together?

[WILDMANBMAC]

USNIC ACID is not bad

Bad Idea????????????? I don't think so. I've taken a product called SHRED that has USNIC ACID in it and believe me............... it works. I took off 10 pounds in 2 weeks and now I'm slowly taking off the hard to get fat and I'm started to look very lean.

The stuff works!!!!

www.perfectphysique.com has it in a product called SHRED and a lighter doze in a product called LEAN FAST.

Also, www.usnicacid.net has all the facts about it.

Truth is, it was one isolated case of a women who had liver problems. If you actually read the story and understand the background. She waited until she was they asked her to be a spokes person for the product then she reported the problems. This way she was able to go after them. Which is BS.

 

[topolo]

how much shred did you take and for how long?
did you get your liver values checked?

 

[Mudge]

We are talking about stacking 2 items here, thats not the same as one item alone.

Someone discovered they had liver problems after a 4 week cycle of M1T and initially blamed it on the M1T, frankly I believe it simply raised their values to the point where it became noticeable (itching gets bad etc). Some people have genetically fatty livers and thats just how it is.

 

[topolo]

mudge.....have you used ua?

 

[topolo]

http://www.perfectphysique.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1&HS=1

there is not much ua in there!!

 

[Mudge]

mudge.....have you used ua?

I've only used clen and T3, I had always considered UA/DNP too freaky and the lazy mans way out. I am considering UA though but I'm giving my liver a break at the moment.

LAM has a journal of sorts in the Anabolic section on his current UA use, he is going to go for about a month he said.

 

[gopro]

I've only used clen and T3, I had always considered UA/DNP too freaky and the lazy mans way out. I am considering UA though but I'm giving my liver a break at the moment.

LAM has a journal of sorts in the Anabolic section on his current UA use, he is going to go for about a month he said.

You consider UA the lazy man's way out but not clen and T3?

 

[WILDMANBMAC]

I been taken SHRED for 8 weeks. My liver levels are fine. The myth has been 500mg, 600 mg, 700mg of US is what it takes and that my friends is INSANE. The Woman took 600 mg of UA and thus had issues and I still don't believe it had anything to do with UA. A small amount taken moderately is a safe and effective way to lose it. I've turned other on to SHRED and they are seeing the same results.

 

[topolo]

do you own stock?

 

[PreMier]

 

[WILDMANBMAC]

Do I own stock????????????? I don't own stock in anything. Unfortunately!! LOL
Seriously, I'm not pushing SHRED or LEAN FAST, just the notion that UA is really a proven fat burner and just because we had ONE 1 bad incident with UA, doesn't mean we should ban it, To be honest, EPHEDRA made me jittery and SHRED didn't. Take it for what i's worth.

 

[Mudge]

You consider UA the lazy man's way out but not clen and T3?

Sure, just less dangerous to me. As for jitters, clen is the only thing so far that affects me in that way.

 

[gopro]

Sure, just less dangerous to me. As for jitters, clen is the only thing so far that affects me in that way.

I actually had very little sides with UA. Its not even comparable to DNP, which TRULY is the lazy man's dieting tool. Plus, I would say that a clen/T3 combo would be much more potent for fat loss than UA alone...much more.

 

[brodus]

And to the Shred salesman on the board, there have been way more than ONE problematic encouters with UA. If it was only one, no one here would care. It's certainly something to take caution when using. Their is such a thing as idiosyncratic biogenetics, meaning what might "SHRED" you might cause my liver to implode for reasons not fully understood.

After reading all of the studies, I actually would probably use DNP before UA (although I'll never use either). DNP is more deadly from a dosing standpoint and a hyper-thermic agonist, but is much less harsh on the liver. Read the studies if you doubt it; there are quite a few.

BTW, MUDGE, what did you mean by "itching gets bad etc"? Is this an indicator of liver issues? Would it be accompanied by a rash? Please explain.

 

[Mudge]

I would say that a clen/T3 combo would be much more potent for fat loss than UA alone...much more.

So you are saying UA sucks?

 

[Mudge]

BTW, MUDGE, what did you mean by "itching gets bad etc"? Is this an indicator of liver issues? Would it be accompanied by a rash? Please explain.

When liver bilirubin values are high, itching eventually occurs.

http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C72787.html

Why?

The reason why patients with liver disease itch is not known, although it is commonly believed that some substances accumulate in the blood as a result of a poorly functioning liver and thus cause itching. A simple blood test can exclude liver disease as a cause for the itching, as liver enzymes are often elevated with liver involvement.

 

[brodus]

Thanks...I've developed a small rash that I'm pretty certain is from Etched, but I'm also taking MDien @ 8mg ED, so I was a bit worried when I read that. To wit: I've gotten a rash from Etched before, so I'm rather certain this is the cause.

 

[Mudge]

Could be unrelated to liver, but I would not know for sure. I am not aware of rashes from liver related stuff though, one of the docs could perhaps answer this if you shoot them a link to the thread with your Q.

 

[gopro]

So you are saying UA sucks?

Not at all, its just that I would use a basic E/C/A stack by itself before just a UA supplement by itself. Now, when UA is used in combo with a thermogenic, its a different story...very synergistic!

 

[Monolith]

If youve got elevated bilirubin, you should see a yellowing in your eyes... and if it gets really bad, youll see your skin begin to yellow.

 

[Mudge]

That is when you are already somewhat SOL.

 

[topolo]

I have a condition called gilberts syndrome...........and as a result my bilirubin count is always elevated. Never turned yellow though.

 

[WILDMANBMAC]

The ONE article that keeps everyone talking about how bad UA is for you is the ONE artical about Jennifer Rosenthal
http://bioweb.usc.edu/courses/2003-spring/documents/bisc150-ca2_article4.pdf

and based on that one incident the U.S. Food and Drug Administration started warning consumers not to use Lipokinetix, touted as a "dietary supplement" by Syntrax Innovations, Inc.

and as I said in a recent reply......................... she had other monetry reasons to come out with that claim and a bad liver before she took it. BUT nobody ever talks about that.

If someone swallowed a bottle ADVIL's and had problems................ does that mean we should ban ADVIL?

 

[brodus]

Dude, you don't do your research very well. This was the FDA press release:

http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/ANSWERS/2001/ANS01120.html

"The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is warning consumers immediately to stop use of the product Lipokinetix®, marketed as a dietary supplement by Syntrax Innovations, Inc. Lipokinetix has been implicated in a number of serious liver injuries. FDA has received multiple reports of persons who developed liver injury or liver failure while using Lipokinetix.
Lipokinetix is marketed for weight loss. It contains the ingredients norephedrine (also known as phenylpropanolamine or PPA), caffeine, yohimbine, diiodothyronine, and sodium usniate. The injuries reported to FDA occurred in persons between 20 and 32 years of age. No apparent cause of liver injury was identified in these reports other than use of Lipokinetix. Liver injury developed between 2 weeks and 3 months of Lipokinetix use. "

And the semi-ban and FDA warning happened BEFORE the story you refer to. You don't know what the hell you're talking about.

There are close to 50 peer-reviewed studies that show UA to be dangerous and HIGHLY live toxic in very small dosages. Just because some mountain people from Tibet drank it in Tea for 2000 years does not make it safe. There is so much misinformation out there. People believe everything marketers tell them to believe because they're too f'in stupid to do their own legwork, and were too busy doing other things to pay attention in class, and therefore are at the mercy of others to translate things like science journals, etc. Yes, that includes you, "WILDMAN."

Also, read these, if you can, and they let you into a legitimate university library:
1) J Ethnopharmacol 1999 Sep;66(3):343-6
2) Minerva Ginecol 1999 Jun;51(6):255-60
3) Eur J Pharm Sci 1998 Apr;6(2):141-4
4) Cell Mol Life Sci 1997 Aug;53(8):667-72
5) Nat Toxins 1996;4(2):96-102
6) J Ethnopharmacol 1991 Jul;33(3):217-20
7) Dermatol Monatsschr 1987;173(4):221-5
8) Contact Dermatitis 1995 Oct;33(4):271-2
9) Drug Metab Dispos 1992 Nov-Dec;20(6):909-11
10) Drug Metabol Drug Interact 1995;12(1):53-63
11) Ann Intern Med 2002;136:590-595,616-618

And then tell me that UA is safe.

Point is, it's much more liver toxic than DNP, and not as effective. The fact that you belittle anyone with a differing opinion, especially others who do real research while you spin the same old story, is why I think you're a sales rep...I've never met an honest sales rep...and sales reps never know the science very well, or can reference good studies...anyone whose first post is "TRY THIS AWESOME PRODUCT" is a sales rep. You're lucky IM doesn't ban dumbasses as easily as Anabolic Minds, or you wouldn't have even gotten that fifth thread out.

 

[WILDMANBMAC]

It's obvious to me that I'm dealing with an idiot. I'm fully aware of ALL the articles on UA and I'm VERY educated on the dangers of it as well as the dangers surrounding DNP. I am TAKING the stuff

The fact is EVERYONE and their body reacts differently to natural and or manufactured supplements. If you for one moment think that reports of any kind side effects are to taken as gospel for the masses then there is no need to try and have a normal debate (which I already see is impossible) with a narrow minded person such as yourself. There are 1000's of people taking UA with NO side effects, but I wouldn't think you'd understand percentages.

and for the record I'm not a sales person.... I happend to be a personal trainer and have beeen for quite some time with an established and creditable clientele.

Oh yeah.......................and BTW......... by the looks of your picture, seems like nothing works for you. So I'd stop preaching to people who are looking for answers. You should work on LIFTING WEIGHTS first before you start preaching to people about the secrets around building a perfect body.

 

[gopro]

Both sides of this debate make good points. Its like I have said so many times before...science/studies tell one side of the story and real world/anectodal reports tell another.

There are some people that get elevated liver enzymes from holding an Anadrol in their hand, and others that get away with taking 5 a day for weeks on end.

 

[brodus]

Wildman, show me how you're right about this claim:

"based on that one incident the U.S. Food and Drug Administration started warning consumers not to use Lipokinetix"

Or this claim:

"Truth is, it was one isolated case of a women who had liver problems."

Anyone who actually read the links I provided, would know you are wrong about this. Not only did the FDA take action BEFORE the "isolated story" you base your argument on, but they did so on MANY SUBSTANTIATED CASES OF LIVER DAMAGE.

The fact is, I pointed out major inaccuracies in your claim, and you had to resort to personal attacks because you can't admit that you're wrong about this. That's why you sound like a salesman, BC you're glossing over the possible downsides.

And aynone who read any of the close to 50 Studies on this,would know you're better off doing DNP. I never said UA would kill or damage everyone who uses it--but to pretend like its use is without possible problems, the way you do, is completely irresponsible and naive.

And since you obviously have a background in organic chemistry and wouldn't possibly base the use of a toxic chemical only on your own experience and those you've trained, why don't you explain to myself and the board exactly how much UA it takes to cause complete uncoupling of oxidative phosphorylation in liver tissue-->vs. DNP?

And maybe you can explain what happens to the massive release of free radicals that occurs from the release of respiratory control and oligomycin inhibited respiration, or perhaps what that might do in the human body over the long-term?