Theory on fat burning (diet/pharmacology) DP? Gopro?

[cornfed]

Alright, now I've been screwing around with this in my head for a while and I have some unanswered ?s on the supplement side of this. Any help would be great!

_HSL fasilitates transport of stored bodyfat in the bloodstream during fasts, such as sleep. after a "balanced" meal (by the food pyramid's standards ) HSL levels drop, while LPL increases, mobilizing ingested lipids.
_A low GI diet (in or hovering above ketosis) could theoretically keep HSL levels slightly higher and LPL lower, and viola, burn fat stores.
_Now the quirks...
HSL is triggered by epinephrine primarily, but does ephedrine/norephedrine have the same effect? to what degree?
is there a supplement/drug that directly stimulates HSL? other than diet, a LPL suppressor that doesn't interfere w/ protein absorbtion?

If there is an easy answer to this, let me know, if there's a f'd up one, let me know. Cause if this theory is sound, LOL then ketosis + said stimulants/suppressors could be a great combination for keeping LPL low despite numerous meals and maintaining peak HSL levels.

Normal Levels/ altered levels

Sleep/fast- high hsl highhsl
meal- hsl drops/ lpl rises (both substantially) both fluctuate only slightly, hsl still high, lpl still low
~5hrs after meal- hls rises/lpl lowers both still constant

Just a theory, but it seems sound. Any thoughts on the supplement side of this (aside from puffin' epinephrine)?

 

[Dr. Pain]

Sorry, no comment on the bulk of your theory...I'll leave the physiology and mechanisms of thermogenics to TCD and others. (I actually believe from empiricism, they are not what they are "cracked up to be!") However, I can tell you the CLA is a much more effective way to control Lipo-protein Lipase. :


DP

 

[gopro]

There is no easy or fucked up answer to your question. Your theory is interesting, but maybe a bit overcomplicated. It is not so simple as cause and effect as many factors play into the equation.

I don't know about any more fat burning pharmacueticals than DNP, ephedrine, clenbuterol, yohimbe, T3, caffeine, xenaical, etc. You are entering new territory. What are you trying to do here...revolutionize bodybuilding, LOL!

 

[cornfed]

Well? I dunno, but it sounds good to me. And It may just work if I can find an answer to my ?s. Ohhh...TCD????? Anyone?

 

[Robboe]

I have no idea what HSL is.

 

[cornfed]

Dang and you ask when my whole mind is a blurr!
Hormone sensitive lipase (mobilizes stored fat in "fasting periods")
Lipo-protein lipase (uses newly digested fat)

Any ideas or places to look? My mind is completely blown

 

[Robboe]

Ok man, i've done some research and i now know all there is to know about HSL, every other hormone in the body and everything you ever need to know about fatloss and keeping it off.

Not really of course.

I have actually heard of HSL before but never got round to researching it. I think i was going to a while back, but ghrelin and PYY3-36 caught my eye and threw me off.

Anyhoo...

Originally posted by cornfed

<snip>

_HSL fasilitates transport of stored bodyfat in the bloodstream during fasts, such as sleep.

From what i can gather, HSL is required for lipolysis at anytime, not just fasting.

after a "balanced" meal (by the food pyramid's standards ) HSL levels drop, while LPL increases, mobilizing ingested lipids.

I believe it's insulin mediated. ie a rise in insulin past a certain threshold shuts of HSL.

_A low GI diet (in or hovering above ketosis) could theoretically keep HSL levels slightly higher and LPL lower, and viola, burn fat stores.

Very possible. It may explain the accelerated rate of fat loss in a lot of people during the first few weeks of a ketosis diet. But also, the appetite blunting effect from the pro+fat meals may also contribute, since with less of an appetite, people tend to eat less. Thus, less calories incoming creating a negative calorie flux, or a greater negative calorie flux.

After those first few weeks however, it all comes down to calories in vs calories out.

I think Charles Poulquin puts his clients on keto diets for 4 weeks at a time because of this accelerated fat loss thing.


_Now the quirks...
HSL is triggered by epinephrine primarily,

And norepinephrine, cortisol and ACTH. I'm not saying you're wrong, but where did you discover it is primarily triggered by epinephrine?

Norepinephrine is the most thermogenic hormone in the body from what i can gather, so it would seem logical to me that it would be the primary signaller.

I haven't read that either are primary at triggering it btw, so whatever i say on this part of the topic is purely speculative.

but does ephedrine/norephedrine have the same effect?

Well, ephedrine stimulates catecholamine release (E and NE) so it seems reasonable to assume that it stimualtes HSL indirectly.

Norephedrine ain't thermogenic from what i can gather so wouldn't have an effect, unless it would effect it via some other mechanism. Good appetite suppressant from what i hear though.

to what degree?

It depends on how much ephedrine you consume i should imagine.

You do know ephedrine isn't present in the body, right?


is there a supplement/drug that directly stimulates HSL?

No idea. But if NE/E trigger it's actions, get a hold of a NE/E stimulator - eg EC, Yohimbine, nicotine (Although the latter may work more on dopamine receptors than beta-2 receptors. I'm not totally sure though).

other than diet, a LPL suppressor that doesn't interfere w/ protein absorbtion?

As DP said, CLA may be a good idea. Takes a while to kick in though.

If there is an easy answer to this, let me know, if there's a f'd up one, let me know. Cause if this theory is sound, LOL then ketosis + said stimulants/suppressors could be a great combination for keeping LPL low despite numerous meals and maintaining peak HSL levels.

Be more concerned with your energy balance, i'd say.

<snip>

 

[Robboe]

Re: Re: Theory on fat burning (diet/pharmacology) DP? Gopro?

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy

From what i can gather, HSL is required for lipolysis at anytime, not just fasting.

Hey man, i'll get back to you, but i'm not entirely sure that this is the case.

Let me do some diggin'.

Grave diggin'.

No, not really, i'm lying.

Or am i?

 

[Robboe]

So i lied.

I was going to dig some graves, but i went and ate some cookies and cream hagan daaz instead.

Anyhoo, here's an email reply from Lyle McDonald:

HSL is typically considered THE rate limiting step for triglyceride hydrolysis. All lipolysis is fundamentally related to HSL activity and all lipolytic stimuli that I'm aware of work via changing HSL activity (or by changing the total amount of HSL).

I can't think of any exceptions.

 

[gopro]

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
So i lied.

I was going to dig some graves, but i went and ate some cookies and cream hagan daaz instead.

Anyhoo, here's an email reply from Lyle McDonald:

Boy, you just love Lyle don't you!

 

[Robboe]

Not really.

I'd really like to, but i have a thing against cyber sex.

And my willy is big, but it doesn't quite stretch as far as the US.

 

[gopro]

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
Not really.

I'd really like to, but i have a thing against cyber sex.

And my willy is big, but it doesn't quite stretch as far as the US.

Oh c'mon...don't be so modest...I'm sure your willy has tickled a few guys over here in the U.S.

 

[Robboe]

Not yet, but i'm saving up my pocket money for air milage.


First stop?

Bellmore, NY.

Be sure to rub yourself up, baby.

I prefer coconut oil, but it's your choice.

 

[gopro]

I'll be waiting!

 

[Robboe]

LMFAO.

I was totally not expecting a response like that from you.

Still LMFAO.

 

[gopro]

Laughter is a good thing TCD!

 

[Robboe]

I'm still lmfao now i've just read this again.

 

[gopro]

Just got my coconut oil !!! Got your ticket yet?

 

[Robboe]

I tried to get through customs earlier, but they wouldn't let me through.

Something about concealing a dangerous weapon...

My court hearing is in two weeks now.

 

[cornfed]

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
So i lied.

I was going to dig some graves, but i went and ate some cookies and cream hagan daaz instead.

Anyhoo, here's an email reply from Lyle McDonald:

TCD, g'luck w/ customs, but yeah, this confirms my theory while not answering practical application. But thanx, LOL . I'm gonna have to hit the pharaceutical research again to see how people w/ lipolitic disorders influence those levels. And the epinephrine thing came from my memory banks from a class a while back when I was a nutrition major...(my 3rd change after genetics and biology, but before food science and business and my latest and final one... a double major ).
Back to the research!!! Now I'll be focussing on this and my sugar-free milk theory I'll post anything I find of interest.

Peace