We really don´t know what is going on, do we ?

[Vieope]

This "do what works for you" theory is good but presents an undeniable fact, we really don´t know what it is going on when it comes to training.
We can´t agree on anything because we don´t have the knowledge yet, admit it. We usually say that because everyone is different and genetics plays a big role that is why there is so much confusion. You know that is not true. We can´t be that different from each other.
CNS, superset, failure, strength training, hypertrophy training, low rep, high rep, rest, tempo, overtraining, muscle shaping, shocking, stretch to make longer muscles, different types of training (MAX-OT, HIIT, Westside ..), one exercise is enough or it is not, plateaus, pump, soreness necessary or not, cardio. The list of things that we don´t agree can go on and on.
The difference between this forum and the diet/supplement/anabolics is that there people know something or they don´t. There is not enough space to discussion, people ask something, they get an answer that is correct and most likely will be correct forever. Imagine if the anabolics forum followed the same "do what works for you" philosophy. That is not science that is speculation.
I know this is a discussion forum but you have to agree with me on this one.

We are missing something obvious in all of this training debate, one day somebody will make it clear and the only thing we will discuss is proper form.

 

[Arnold]

 

[Vieope]

Isn´t that cute?

 

[Chain Link]

Isn´t that cute?

Nooh, heas meakeing phon uf me

 

[CowPimp]

In a sense you are correct. There is a lot that is still unknown. However, people's bodys can be quite a bit different. That's why some people can smoke, drink, eat like crap, and live to be 90; others can take excellent care of their health and die at 60. There is huge room for variation in genetics.

 

[Vieope]

Of course genetics is important but take a look for example at how medicines pass the FDA board. Some people will be allergic to it but it is the minority.
Our genetic code is basically the same.
The problem maybe the fact that I never heard a peer reviewed study in training.

 

[Chain Link]

Oh, And I do agree.. Bodybuilding has only gotten easier with time, because we've gained more knowledge.. It used to be a firm,"NO. Thin people cannot get bulked with muscle; If they could, they would be.. Its just not in their genetics." Proven wrong time and time again.. cuz we figured out why they couldnt get big.. There have been so many big things to come and go without really working- except for the few who were using it, and inadvertantly doing something right.


I think given some time, we will further break down the wall of the how individual genetics play a role in bodybuilding. Im positive they do.. but I think they play the same role as a fat burner pill.. They do work, but they only give you a 3 - 5% advantage. IMO, anyways. There may be research to prove me wrong. But I feel its definitely under 20%, and probably under 10%. Not counting birth defects, of course(Which could be both good or bad)

One thing Ive noticed is people say,"stubborn fat is genetic. Its where your body puts it on first, that comes off last." The later part is pretty true, But I dont think its genetic. Fat stores seem pretty relative to the size of the muscles and organs in that area. Which would make sense.. In the scenario your body has to use fat for energy, it can use a similar % of bf from each area instead of transporting it all over.

Oh, and Vieope.. I think your screen is at a tilt.. but maybe thats just me

 

[Vieope]

Oh, and Vieope.. I think your screen is at a tilt.. but maybe thats just me

 

[Chain Link]

Im bored, and not as happy with my post as I was when i posted it.. So I thought Id just go ahead and critique(flame) it myself; and save somebody the time.

Bodybuilding has only gotten easier with time, because we've gained more knowledge..

Not really. Whilst we've gained more knowledge; The government has banned off the supplements we use alongside our knowledge to get results.

There have been so many big things to come and go without really working- except for the few who were using it, and inadvertantly doing something right.

True. But this is not a point, because its true for everything. You could use this line in a thread to argue pecker size doesnt matter.

There may be research to prove me wrong.

Well check before you post nextime.

Not counting birth defects, of course(Which could be both good or bad)

Thank you for that tidbit of wisdom.

One thing Ive noticed is people say,"stubborn fat is genetic. Its where your body puts it on first, that comes off last." The later part is pretty true, But I dont think its genetic. Fat stores seem pretty relative to the size of the muscles and organs in that area. Which would make sense.. In the scenario your body has to use fat for energy, it can use a similar % of bf from each area instead of transporting it all over.

And genetics arent responsible for that you say?

 

[DimebagDarrell]

chain link, i dont agree with that statement about the banning of supplements. we know a hell of a lot more about nutrition than we did 20 years ago, and last i checked ground beef, eggs, and potatos havent been banned yet

 

[Chain Link]

Lol, Good point. To be honest my knowledge of supplements reaches as far as whey protien to centrum . I was just trying to take the side of somebody who wanted to argue against me.

 

[Vieope]

Hey, I invented the art of criticizing my own post.

 

[Mudge]

Imagine if the anabolics forum followed the same "do what works for you" philosophy. That is not science that is speculation.
I know this is a discussion forum but you have to agree with me on this one.

Anadrol works wonders for many people, it does not for me, even at higher doses. Ergo it does not work that well for me, not everyone has the same receptor counts so your argument is not something I would agree with at all.

If humans had no variety we would be inbreeds.

 

[Vieope]

Yes but it does work for most people. Just like every medicine.
When it comes to training I have seen people succeed with almost every type of training. I just think that there is something in commom between them all that is usually not perceived.
Of course that is speculation as well. Hard to define something that there is no concept yet.

Anyway, anybody know why there is not enough studies about bodybuilding? The last I saw was no near good, it said that anabolics don´t contribute to muscle growth.

 

[Mudge]

Just like every medicine.

Which is what it is for. As long as it raises red blood cell count without liver values going through the roof, then it is doing its job medicinally.

 

[gopro]

There are some things we DO KNOW, like weight training needs to be progressive in some way in order to continually trigger the hypertrophy response...that certain types of training can elicit a larger release in GH or testosterone...that certain fibers are more effected by certain rep ranges/weights...that fast twitch fibers are more conducive to larger muscles than slow twitch...that there are certain markers for overtraining that can be tracked like creatine kinase levels or cortisol, etc...that there is a "possibility" that stretch overload can lead to satellite cell proliferation and hyperplasia...etc, etc...

...however, we will NEVER have a 100% integrated approach to training that is 100% optimal for everyone. The best we have is the info above (and more) and elite trainers that are intelligent, experimental, organized, and extremely experienced that can through observation and dilligent record keeping figure out which techniques and protocols are producing the most consistent results in the unique area they are trying to improve.

But this is as good as it gets right now b/c first, there is SOME variation from individual to individual, and second, unless a person is monitored 24 hours per day and every second of those 24 hours is checked for levels and fluctuations in every hormone, neurotransmitter, enzyme, etc ,etc, we can never know what is 100% optimal for the human body to respond the way we want it to.

This is simply impossible in my eyes.

 

[Vieope]

Good post gopro.

 

[Dipsh!t]

hahahahahahahaha.....'




sorry

 

[Arnold]

This is simply impossible in my eyes.

I agree with your post, but I think in the future it will be possible...

 

[Vieope]

hahahahahahahaha.....'


sorry

Ok

 

[Vieope]

I agree with your post, but I think in the future it will be possible...

I often hear that the era of bodybuilding is over, since the fitness crazy happened at the late 80´s. I couldn´t disagree more.

 

[Mudge]

But this is as good as it gets right now b/c first, there is SOME variation from individual to individual, and second, unless a person is monitored 24 hours per day and every second of those 24 hours is checked for levels and fluctuations in every hormone, neurotransmitter, enzyme, etc ,etc, we can never know what is 100% optimal for the human body to respond the way we want it to.

This is simply impossible in my eyes.

Which is where trial and error comes into play, just like diet or almost anything else, race car driving and you name it.

 

[gopro]

Which is where trial and error comes into play, just like diet or almost anything else, race car driving and you name it.

Yes, like with anything else, trial and error comes into play, which is another tool that trainers make great use of...but this still will never allow for the knowledge needed for a 100% optimal training program.

God, if you believe in him/her, is the only one to possess this knowledge and from what I hear, his personal training rates are astronomical.

 

[gopro]

I agree with your post, but I think in the future it will be possible...

I doubt it will ever be studied to that degree...and if it was, it would have to be done with people that are basically willing to live in a lab or 100% controlled environment. Science fiction in my eyes.

What will happen will be that more and more drugs will be discovered to take muscular growth to the outer limits and training theory will take even more of a backseat.

 

[Arnold]

with the advancements in science and medicine in the past 50 years, I doubt nothing.

 

[Rich46yo]

Bob D are you into video work? Photoshop?............take care........Rich

 

[Arnold]

Bob D are you into video work? Photoshop?............take care........Rich

me?

no, I do work in IT.

 

[PreMier]

I doubt it will ever be studied to that degree...and if it was, it would have to be done with people that are basically willing to live in a lab or 100% controlled environment. Science fiction in my eyes.

Dont you know that the govt is already doing this.. making an army of supersoldiers!

 

[iminluvwiturgf]

hey, does anyone in here kno the thread that had the 14 year old boy?

 

[PreMier]

Do you know his name? There are probably a lot of 14 year old kids here...