What Everyone needs to know about UGL's!!!

[Mike Arnold]

Sorry bro. I didn't mean to be bitchy to you.

This shit makes me fucking nervous.
I don't like to see "domestic" posted let alone in banners. There is a reason that word is not supposed to be used on the forums. I also don't like to see spec tests posted. The Feds HATE Printed spec reports. Hate. THAT is why they're not posted publicly on the open web. I'm sorry, I think its reckless and is guaranteed to draw unwanted attention and it makes me nervous as hell.

I'm going to bow out of this convo now.

Really? I think they hate UGLs in general (and everyone involved in unregulated drug trade, for that matter), and regardless of spec tests, would gladly put an end to any UGL they could. I don't have any opinion on the use of the word "domestic"--honestly never thought about it, but it seems unrealistic to think that the use of the word "domestic"...or posting spec results...would make the Gov. any more or less likely to want to try and put a stop to this stuff. I could be wrong, but that's just how I see it.

Now, if I saw some statistics showing that a greater percentage of UGLs which displayed mass spec results and/or used the word "domestic" have been busted or investigated, then I could understand the fear, but it seems to me that the Gov. just wants to make busts, regardless of whether the gear was validated by spec results or not. Besides, just because a UGL avoids posting spec sheets and using the word domestic, its not like they're fooling anyone because every UGL here publically admits to selling gear!!! That's is proof enough, don't you think? Evey UGL has their own forum, advertisements, multiple reps talking about how great the gear was, as well as customer saying the same. Unless a Federal Agent was retarded, I don't see how posting results or using the word dometic is any more of a give away than what is already being publically proclaimed.

To me, this argument sounds just like the peptide companies who think they're protecting themselves by avoiding making public recommendations for their products, as if denying that their products are for human use will somehow help them escape legal repercussions if the shit ever hits the fan. In reality, it isn't going to make a damn bit of difference because not a single judge or jury would ever believe those proucts weren't for human use. To me, thinking that UGLs which avoid posting spec sheets and using the word domestic are somehow more protected than those which don't just seems silly in light of the available evidence.

Being that you're directly involved, perhaps you could provide a reason for this belief...or some type of evidence to uphold your statements? You said flat-out it bothers you and you find it wreckless. If so, please explain why. If you don't want to continue posting in this thread, you could PM me if you like. Personally, I am grateful these spec sheets exist (as are many others) and was one of the main reasons I contacted Big D. It is a huge benefit to the customers, while provdong no additional risk to them. Any risk that may be present is on the UGL. Now, you might not like it, but there is NO denying that this is helpful to the people that buy gear. In addition, not a single argument I presented in my previous post, which was a direct response to your post, was addressed or even acknowledged. I have to wonder why not. I made some pretty valid points in that post--and no steroid user who is being honest with himself could deny several of them. The fact is we can NOT always know if a product is good or properly dosed, especially when using multiple other steroids at the same time, no matter how "experienced" someone might be. If you have been in this position, you would know this to be the case. As a woman, perhaps you run only 1-2 compounds at a time...and limit yourself only to certain steroids, but for most men, this is not the case. Being able to discern whether all steroids are properly dosed when running several steroids at once often becomes exceedingly difficult and in many cases impossible. I could point out DOZENS of scenarios in which it would be virtually IMPOSSIBLE to distinguish between proplery dosed and under-dosed gear. Mass spec results offer a level of assuarance that can't be found anywhere else and that's not an opinion, it is a fact. Now, you may not want to post your spec sheets and that's fine, but at this time, Big D does...and I think many people are and will be grateful for it.

 

[jrock00123]

Those that are familiar with the pro-hormone world may remember Primordial Performance. Great company that made safe DHEA based hormones as well as other supplements. Anyway, although there were and still are many companies selling much more harmful otc steroids, this company was raided. At the end of the day it came down to there marketing. Their packaging and advertised stated direct comparisons and theoretical conversion rates to testosterone. The feds simply did not like being openly mocked.

So although I hear what Mike is saying and he does have a valid point, I have to agree with AgentYes in that it may be better to simply keep a low profile. Seeing users scream TD and post pics every time they receive stuff seems foolish. As a community we should do a better job in keeping things at least somewhat hush.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Those that are familiar with the pro-hormone world may remember Primordial Performance. Great company that made safe DHEA based hormones as well as other supplements. Anyway, although there were and still are many companies selling much more harmful otc steroids, this company was raided. At the end of the day it came down to there marketing. Their packaging and advertised stated direct comparisons and theoretical conversion rates to testosterone. The feds simply did not like being openly mocked.

So although I hear what Mike is saying and he does have a valid point, I have to agree with AgentYes in that it may be better to simply keep a low profile. Seeing users scream TD and post pics every time they receive stuff seems foolish. As a community we should do a better job in keeping things at least somewhat hush.

Ohhh, I agree 100% that the less UGLs are publically promoted the safer it will be...there is no doubt about that. But...the fact is that every UGL here already has their own forum, mutiple reps putting up posts, tons of customers talking about where they bought ther gear and how good it is, and 100 other things, all of which make it VERY obvious that UGLs are regularly selling steroids to the people here. My point was that posting a spec sheet or using the word "domestic" is not going to change the fact that all the UGLs here are already right out in the open, in broad daylight for any Gov. Agent to see. Posting spec sheets and using the word "domestic" won't change that. To infer othewise is like stating we can keep the UGL forums, the reps, regular public communication, etc, but s longh as we remove that mass spex sheet, all will be well. After all, the Gov. had no idea any of us existed until the banner went up. Ri-i-i-i-ght.

We also need to remember that if we took all this stuff out of the public eye, most people, especially after some time passed, would have no idea where to buy good gear. Even with all the public communication we currently have, tons of people still get ripped off every day. The main reason a lot of guys come on this and other boards is specifically so they CAN find out what is going on. Entire boards exist for this very reason. Yes, we could revert back into the dinosaur days and no one would know shit...or things can stay like they are. If I had to guess, I would say that most people here PREFER things to stay the way they are...to be able to feerly and easily access the infomation they need to make wise buying decisions. If the people didn't want things this way, they never would have made it this way. The people made these boards what they are and many are very grateful for it. For the most part, people want to remain educated and filled in on what's going on, so they can increase their chances of getting goold gear. This OP is simply an extension of that desire. No one wants to be left in the dark.

You should also remeber that it is easy for a private company to call out for a return to the old days, but that wasn't necessarily their opinion prior to going private. Every opinion expressed by those on this board, especially those with direct involvment, have some type of a bias, which is a direct result of their current situation.

 

[SheriV]

I dont know if this was addressed earlier but will Big D be putting up dated mass specs with every coinciding batch?

there are obv some UGL's that intentionally scam people but there are plenty of instances where an UGL got burned on either their raws or THEIR source in some other fashion and pass along a bunk or underdosed product to their customers...I think the only way to lower that latters incidence would be to test everything that goes through your doors.

 

[World-Pharma.org]

great posts Mike!

 

[Mike Arnold]

I dont know if this was addressed earlier but will Big D be putting up dated mass specs with every coinciding batch?

there are obv some UGL's that intentionally scam people but there are plenty of instances where an UGL got burned on either their raws or THEIR source in some other fashion and pass along a bunk or underdosed product to their customers...I think the only way to lower that latters incidence would be to test everything that goes through your doors.

I don't know. I am going to talk with him about testing frequency soon, so I can more completely familiarize myself with the workings of the company.

 

[blergs.]

How many UGL's can prove their Gear is Legitimate?








​

Despite repeated warnings regarding the reliability of blackmarket steroids, many of us continue to use them with regularity. The reason is quite simple. In many cases there simply isn't a better alternative. The reality is that many of today's most popular steroids can only be obtained through underground channels, forcing us to play an ongoing the guessing game. Smart buyers stay ahead of the curve by gravitating towards labs with good reputations, paying attention to customer feedback, and evaluating bloodwork results of themselves and others.

However, despite our best efforts, many of us end up getting screwed...and sometimes we don't even know it! Is the product properly dosed, how pure is the material, and does the product even contain the steroid listed on the label? These are just some of the questions we need to ask ourselves as we navigate the UGL market and every day, 1000's of unsuspecting customers end up on the short end of the stick. In fact, this problem has becomes so widespread that it has reached epidemic proportions. Sometimes the blame can be laid at the feet of unscrupulous company owners, who knowingly sell bunk, under-dosed, or counterfeit products. Unfortunately, the problem goes much deeper than that. In order for us to increase our chances of getting the best gear possible, we must learn where the problem originates, as this will provide us with the information necessary for overcoming the problem.

We need to start at the beginning; the raw material supplier. UGL's don't produce their own steroid hormones. They purchase various hormones from overseas manufacturers, which are later made into finished products and sold to the customer. If the raw material is bad, then entire product is bad. There is no getting around this sample fact. Low quality, fake, or bogus hormones= low quality, fake, or bogus UGL products. Of course, all of these suppliers claim their hormones are great quality...usually 99% pure, but as any honest UGL will tell you, this claim is 100% bullshit. The amount of junk raws being exported from these countries and placed in the hands of UGL's is troubling. The good news is that we are not without hope. There is one...and ONLY one way for a UGL to accurately assess product purity & potency. After acquiring the raw materials, they must spend their own money having these raw materials subjected to an expensive and high-tech testing process known as mass spectrometry testing...or mass spec, for short.

Mass spec testing is the definitive, gold-standard test for ascertaining the quality of any steroid product. When a steroid passes this test with flying colors, you can rest easy knowing that the product not only contains the correct steroid, but that it is properly dosed and of a high purity level. In other words, you are getting exactly what you pay for---a guarantee seldom offered in the UGL world. If you use blackmarket steroids, you need to understand how valuable this type of testing is. It provides an indisputable assurance that cannot be replicated by any other testing method. User experience, bloodwork, and personal trust means nothing when compared against a single mass spec test result.

This is the same type of testing used by pharmaceutical companies when attempting to determine whether or not a batch of drugs they have produced meets the highest of standards. If pharm companies don't rely on user bloodwork, personal trust, and customer feedback to determine quality, then why should you do so when deciding which steroids to buy? Could you imagine a pharmaceutical company foregoing standard lab testing in favor of sending out un-tested samples to potential customers...and then asking them to provide their opinion on its quality? Like hell they would. Again, I must ask you, if there are UGLs selling products with irrefutable mass spec test results at competitive prices, why would you decide to buy through a source which doesn't offer this type of product testing?

Now, I am not undermining the value of bloodwork. This is a cheap way for a UGL to show its customers how potent a particular product is, even if it is only a rough estimate. However, it does NOT always tell us what steroid is in the product (or its purity level). This means you might be using a product labeled as test prop, but it may actually be test cyp, yet the bloodwork results could still be good. Overall, bloodwork is a useful tool, as it provides the potential customer with first-hand experience regarding a product's effectiveness. This can be helpful in winning over customers whom are not thoroughly familiar with what mass spec testing is or what it means.

It is not uncommon to hear some UGLs talk about mass spec testing. They will say how such and suchproduct was subjected to mass spec testing and passed with flying colors, but if this were so, then why are so few UGLs publically posting these results? What possible advantage is there in keeping this evidence from their customers and telling them "Just trust us"? If they truly do possess this type of conclusive proof, why not proudly reveal it to everyone? To my knowledge, no UGL was ever harmed by posting a mass spec test result. However, I can tell you that those who do benefit enormously.

For you guys who like to use stuff like Primo, Anavar, Halotestin, etc, mass spec testing is almost mandatory. These steroids are faked so frequently that you are almost guaranteed to get ripped off without it. I estimatet that less than 10% of the steroids on the market bearing these names contain the proper steroid and are dosed within an acceptable range. The bottom line is that if your UGL does not offer this type of product testing, then you are taking a crapshoot with your money every time you place an order. I want to make it clear that I am not undermining the integrity or ethics of any UGL. Rather, I am simply stating the facts. A UGL owner could have the greatest morals inthe world, but if he/she doesn't subject his raws to testing, he/she is taking a guess just like you. Many UGLs which can't afford to use mass spec testing will attempt to determine quality by using a melting point test. Basically, a melting point test is a crude method of determining steroid type and purity by checking to see at what temperaturethe raw material begins to melt. If the steroid material begins to melt at the right temp, it likely contains the correct material...and anything that does not melt is deemed an impurity and removed. None the less, there are a few problems with this type of testing. For one, the individual doing the testing must be highly skilled in order to be able to properly conduct a melting point test on all types of AAS. Two, some compounds within the material may melt at the same point as the target steroid, deceiving the tester as to the product's purity & potency (this can be an intentional act of the supplier, in order to increase profit). Three, it is less accurate than mass spec testing in every way. Four, there is NO way for the UGL to prove to the customer that melting point tests were conducted and that the product received a passing grade.

As some of you may know, I was recently worked for another UGL, but after deciding to part ways, I knew that the next UGL I worked for would need to demonstrate the highest quality control measures before I would consider coming on board. Things such as trust, word of mouth, and user bloodwork alone weren't good enough for me. When I make a recommendation, I want to know that I am recommending the highest quality products possible. Fortunately, after some in-depth research and trusted referrals, I came upon Big D Pharma, a new sponsor on this board.

Here is what you can expect from Big D: 1) Publically posted mass spec test results for all of his AAS, which have achieved the highest purity ratings. 2) 1,000's of user bloodwork results (yes, 1,000's). 3) Great customer service. 4) Speedy delivery times. No one else provides greater assurance of product quality...no one. You can see for yourself in the link below?

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/big-d-pharma/189373-mass-spectrometry-results.html​

Home page
​

Awesome post!
I also recently stopped supporting a shop I believe was selling fake "replica" HG gear and was starting to have ULG issues... its sad when people dont take care of their shit or the people that built them...

I am going to check out big D, maybe he will be my go to guy some time soon, time to research!

 

[blergs.]

I am curious, what type of oil do they use for injects??
They seem to have a good line up.

 

[J.thom]

great post Mike!

 

[Presser]

I am curious, what type of oil do they use for injects??
They seem to have a good line up.

^^bump

 

[OfficerFarva]

I am curious, what type of oil do they use for injects??
They seem to have a good line up.

Grape seed.

 

[Valkyrie]

Ohhh, I agree 100% that the less UGLs are publically promoted the safer it will be...there is no doubt about that. But...the fact is that every UGL here already has their own forum, mutiple reps putting up posts, tons of customers talking about where they bought ther gear and how good it is, and 100 other things, all of which make it VERY obvious that UGLs are regularly selling steroids to the people here. My point was that posting a spec sheet or using the word "domestic" is not going to change the fact that all the UGLs here are already right out in the open, in broad daylight for any Gov. Agent to see. Posting spec sheets and using the word "domestic" won't change that. To infer othewise is like stating we can keep the UGL forums, the reps, regular public communication, etc, but s longh as we remove that mass spex sheet, all will be well. After all, the Gov. had no idea any of us existed until the banner went up. Ri-i-i-i-ght.

We also need to remember that if we took all this stuff out of the public eye, most people, especially after some time passed, would have no idea where to buy good gear. Even with all the public communication we currently have, tons of people still get ripped off every day. The main reason a lot of guys come on this and other boards is specifically so they CAN find out what is going on. Entire boards exist for this very reason. Yes, we could revert back into the dinosaur days and no one would know shit...or things can stay like they are. If I had to guess, I would say that most people here PREFER things to stay the way they are...to be able to feerly and easily access the infomation they need to make wise buying decisions. If the people didn't want things this way, they never would have made it this way. The people made these boards what they are and many are very grateful for it. For the most part, people want to remain educated and filled in on what's going on, so they can increase their chances of getting goold gear. This OP is simply an extension of that desire. No one wants to be left in the dark.

You should also remeber that it is easy for a private company to call out for a return to the old days, but that wasn't necessarily their opinion prior to going private. Every opinion expressed by those on this board, especially those with direct involvment, have some type of a bias, which is a direct result of their current situation.

Let me aware you on the fact that they bust LABS that have no steroids. Remember the one in cali that would spec for ANYONE? Busted for REPORTS not for scamming.

You dont seem to know much.

 

[Valkyrie]

For example: mass spectromoter measures wavelengths h. The reports posted measure mass, there fore those reports are not from a laws spectromoter.

Please be fucking careful people. Just because someone can make something look nice does no mean you should trust it. Oh and I wouldn't give something 85-90% pure to my DOG.

 

[Valkyrie]

For example: mass spectromoter measures wavelengths h. The reports posted measure mass, there fore those reports are not from a laws spectromoter.

Please be fucking careful people. Just because someone can make something look nice does no mean you should trust it. Oh and I wouldn't give something 85-90% pure to my DOG.

Sorry for the typos. I have meathead hands.
That should say


*those reports are not from a mass spetromoter

 

[JerseyDevil]

Really? I think they hate UGLs in general (and everyone involved in unregulated drug trade, for that matter), and regardless of spec tests, would gladly put an end to any UGL they could. I don't have any opinion on the use of the word "domestic"--honestly never thought about it, but it seems unrealistic to think that the use of the word "domestic"...or posting spec results...would make the Gov. any more or less likely to want to try and put a stop to this stuff. I could be wrong, but that's just how I see it.

Now, if I saw some statistics showing that a greater percentage of UGLs which displayed mass spec results and/or used the word "domestic" have been busted or investigated, then I could understand the fear, but it seems to me that the Gov. just wants to make busts, regardless of whether the gear was validated by spec results or not. Besides, just because a UGL avoids posting spec sheets and using the word domestic, its not like they're fooling anyone because every UGL here publically admits to selling gear!!! That's is proof enough, don't you think? Evey UGL has their own forum, advertisements, multiple reps talking about how great the gear was, as well as customer saying the same. Unless a Federal Agent was retarded, I don't see how posting results or using the word dometic is any more of a give away than what is already being publically proclaimed.

To me, this argument sounds just like the peptide companies who think they're protecting themselves by avoiding making public recommendations for their products, as if denying that their products are for human use will somehow help them escape legal repercussions if the shit ever hits the fan. In reality, it isn't going to make a damn bit of difference because not a single judge or jury would ever believe those proucts weren't for human use. To me, thinking that UGLs which avoid posting spec sheets and using the word domestic are somehow more protected than those which don't just seems silly in light of the available evidence.

Being that you're directly involved, perhaps you could provide a reason for this belief...or some type of evidence to uphold your statements? You said flat-out it bothers you and you find it wreckless. If so, please explain why. If you don't want to continue posting in this thread, you could PM me if you like. Personally, I am grateful these spec sheets exist (as are many others) and was one of the main reasons I contacted Big D. It is a huge benefit to the customers, while provdong no additional risk to them. Any risk that may be present is on the UGL. Now, you might not like it, but there is NO denying that this is helpful to the people that buy gear. In addition, not a single argument I presented in my previous post, which was a direct response to your post, was addressed or even acknowledged. I have to wonder why not. I made some pretty valid points in that post--and no steroid user who is being honest with himself could deny several of them. The fact is we can NOT always know if a product is good or properly dosed, especially when using multiple other steroids at the same time, no matter how "experienced" someone might be. If you have been in this position, you would know this to be the case. As a woman, perhaps you run only 1-2 compounds at a time...and limit yourself only to certain steroids, but for most men, this is not the case. Being able to discern whether all steroids are properly dosed when running several steroids at once often becomes exceedingly difficult and in many cases impossible. I could point out DOZENS of scenarios in which it would be virtually IMPOSSIBLE to distinguish between proplery dosed and under-dosed gear. Mass spec results offer a level of assuarance that can't be found anywhere else and that's not an opinion, it is a fact. Now, you may not want to post your spec sheets and that's fine, but at this time, Big D does...and I think many people are and will be grateful for it.

Wow. Sorry but this needs to be said. Do you realize EVERY long essay you write in the end is to plug a sponsor? Z, IML, PSL, and many peptide suppliers... now Big D. Thousands of bloodwork tests? Lets do the math. Regarding blood testing lets assume 3000. First of all, thats well over $100,000 in lab fees. Second - think of the time! Even at 10 samples PER DAY it would take a whole year to do that.

When someone actually gets bloodwork done and posts it in that sponsors thread and in the bloodwork section its something of an event and it gets discussed - because it doesn't happen all that often. This thread claims to have conducted more tests than everyone on all the boards put together and no one has talked about it elsewhere until now?

To say that anything at 90% purity is the best in the business is false. 90% purity isn't even good enough for animal use. There are sponsors on this board who have never tested less than 95% and are usually over 97%. 86% for Primo E? There is a sponsor on this board whose PrimoE tested at 98%. Its cute to blame the raws suppliers. That is clearly not the problem. Is there now supposed to be some reward for 90% purity. Laughable.

Mass spec? See this from someone who actually does mass spec testing " http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/big-d-pharma/189373-mass-spectrometry-results-2.html#post3181796 "

As I said before.... what it comes down to is sponsor/customer relationship and trust.... not someone paid off to write paragraphs of conjecture.

My source.... I had bloodwork done and my e2 came back at 618!!! I emailed my private source one evening freaking out and hoping they had stock of letro. Next morning I checked my email and to my surprise was told it was overnighted that day and it was in my mailbox THAT SAME DAY, and no payment had been sent. Just a note to pay up on the next order. Will YOUR sponsor do that??

My source.... my girlfriend after a couple of successful anavar runs decided to try another compound. She totally had a bad reaction to it..... Without question, my money was refunded. Satisfaction guaranteed. Will YOUR sponsor do that?

My source.... I lent a guy on IM some caber because he was sensitive to deca dick.. He had 3 months to pay me back... Of course when it was time for me to use NPP he hadn't paid me back. Upon learning this, my source sent me the replacement FREE OF CHARGE. Will YOUR sponsor do that?

My source... is concerned about safety of everyone involved and does not post mass spec results. But upon request, and if you are trusted, you will see REAL mass spec results, not some cut and pasted results.

Every opinion expressed by those on this board, especially those with direct involvment, have some type of a bias, which is a direct result of their current situation.

No shit. Looks who's calling the kettle black? I don't get paid for my opinions....

 

[Mike Arnold]

edit

 

[theCaptn']

Can we not turn this thread into 'inter-sponsor wars' please.

Thanks.

 

[JerseyDevil]

Fair enough, but this is in the open forum and I for one did not name a sponsor.

 

[Mike Arnold]

great posts Mike!

Wow. Sorry but this needs to be said. Do you realize EVERY long essay you write in the end is to plug a sponsor? Z, IML, PSL, and many peptide suppliers... now Big D. Thousands of bloodwork tests? Lets do the math. Regarding blood testing lets assume 3000. First of all, thats well over $100,000 in lab fees. Second - think of the time! Even at 10 samples PER DAY it would take a whole year to do that.

When someone actually gets bloodwork done and posts it in that sponsors thread and in the bloodwork section its something of an event and it gets discussed - because it doesn't happen all that often. This thread claims to have conducted more tests than everyone on all the boards put together and no one has talked about it elsewhere until now?

To say that anything at 90% purity is the best in the business is false. 90% purity isn't even good enough for animal use. There are sponsors on this board who have never tested less than 95% and are usually over 97%. 86% for Primo E? There is a sponsor on this board whose PrimoE tested at 98%. Its cute to blame the raws suppliers. That is clearly not the problem. Is there now supposed to be some reward for 90% purity. Laughable.

Mass spec? See this from someone who actually does mass spec testing " http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/big-d-pharma/189373-mass-spectrometry-results-2.html#post3181796 "

As I said before.... what it comes down to is sponsor/customer relationship and trust.... not someone paid off to write paragraphs of conjecture.

My source.... I had bloodwork done and my e2 came back at 618!!! I emailed my private source one evening freaking out and hoping they had stock of letro. Next morning I checked my email and to my surprise was told it was overnighted that day and it was in my mailbox THAT SAME DAY, and no payment had been sent. Just a note to pay up on the next order. Will YOUR sponsor do that??

My source.... my girlfriend after a couple of successful anavar runs decided to try another compound. She totally had a bad reaction to it..... Without question, my money was refunded. Satisfaction guaranteed. Will YOUR sponsor do that?

My source.... I lent a guy on IM some caber because he was sensitive to deca dick.. He had 3 months to pay me back... Of course when it was time for me to use NPP he hadn't paid me back. Upon learning this, my source sent me the replacement FREE OF CHARGE. Will YOUR sponsor do that?

My source... is concerned about safety of everyone involved and does not post mass spec results. But upon request, and if you are trusted, you will see REAL mass spec results, not some cut and pasted results.

Every opinion expressed by those on this board, especially those with direct involvment, have some type of a bias, which is a direct result of their current situation.

No shit. Looks who's calling the kettle black? I don't get paid for my opinions....

All the scenarios you gave...those are expected from any good sponsor. I expect it. Does it always happen? Of course not, but it should. From everything I have heard, their customer service appears to be very good, BUT...as I continue working for Big D, if I begin to witness anything other than what I believe to be ethical business practices and high quality products, I will not be slient about it...just as I was not silent about PSL when they went south. Yoy can never know what any source/compnay will do in the future, but you take things as they come. That is how people build a good reputation. They call it how they see it...good or bad. I have done so up to this point and will continue to do so. I say the following with humility, bt this is one of the reasons so many people listen to what have to say. Stuff like this doesn't happen by accident.

I have been with IML for years and they have proven themseves to be a respescted and trusted supplier of legal products. At this point, I back them 100%, as do many others...and I will continue to do so, as long as they continue doing what they're doing. I expect they will. IML is the only supplement company I have ever worked for. I have worked for a couple peptide companies...and as many people do when something better comes along, I eventually moved on, but not because I witnessed anything unethical. I still speak highly of both companies and left on good terms. That is pretty much the extent of my dealings with UGL, peptide, and supplement companies. So, inferring thaty I only praise those companies because I work for them is blatantly untrue. I have hand-picked every company I have worked for specifically because I liked what I saw. There was only one company that approached me, that I said yes to...one. I addition, I often OFTEN praise other companies of all sorts, just as I previously did in this very thread! If anything you said pisses me off, it is this...because it is straight up bullshit.

As far your "look who's calling the kettle black" comment, that comment was all-inclusive. I was referring just as much to myself as to anyone else.

Of course, this thread was a plug for Big D. I said so myself in this very thread! Also, while it is obvious that I recieve gear in return for my work, I won't lie about anything just to get gear...and in truth, I already have enough gear to last me at LEAST 5 years (no exageration). I just don't like to see my supply dwindle...LOL. I decided to go with Bif D because I liked what I was seeing and hearing. My evaluation of the company will continue as long as I am with it. If I saw something I didn't like, I never would have worked for him, regardless of gear or $$$.

So, I appreciate your points, but several of them I already made myself. The difference betwen me and a lot of reps is I will put everything out there...and some people don't like that. In doing so, if information comes out that ws not previously known about a company...either good or bad, then I consider myself to have done my job, regardless of whether this means I keep my employment or not. I consider my service to the public greater than getting a few hundred dollars in gear...and my MASSIVE amount of public posts, which exeeds almost anyone who has ever posted in the BBinbg community, proves that. The amount of free information/help I have provided is quite large. I do this for fun more than anything...and I will never compromise my reputation for anyone, especially not a bit of gear. I have been lied to in the past by some companies...and when I found out about it, the end result wasn't good...for the company. Any company I rep for should know that if they have something to hide or they feel the need to lie to me about something, they should not hire me to begin with...because I let it all out...and this often brings heated discusssion, but in most cases the end result is good, whether it means a UGL ends up being confirmed as honest and ethical...or dishonest and unethical. Either way, the community wins.

With that said, everything I have read & heard about Big D so far is positive...an if that ever changes (as proven by legitimate evidence), then my pubic opinion will change with it.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Sorry for the typos. I have meathead hands.
That should say


*those reports are not from a mass spetromoter

This is the first thing I will be looking into when Big D gets back. For now, I am going to refrain from making any comments about this until I know more.

 

[bulldogz]

If you're in doubt about the quality of any lab or a lab you like, just spend a few hundred and get whatever lab you prefer and get their gear tested for yourself and if it come back legit...stick with them....then post it up for us

If you can spend a few hundred on gear that is suspect, you can spend it to see if the shit is legit!

Great thread Mike!!

 

[JerseyDevil]

Let me add one thing. I apologize if I inferred that you are dishonest, or only plug companies you are being compensated for. I do think you believe in the products you promote wholeheartedly and I have enjoyed reading your articles. You are a talented writer Mike. Although I came off that way I didn't mean to question your integrity. I was impressed how you handled the underdosed Bayer issue with PSL, and I've seen you go to bat for others as well.

Peace.

 

[JerseyDevil]

.... oh, and it was one of your articles that convinced me to buy 50 amps of Omnadren from PSL!

 

[Valkyrie]

I also have nothing against Mike I enjoy reading almost anything he writes and he thinks GH15 is a buffoon which means he is right about something extremely important. He also maintains a cool and respectful non defensive approach which speaks to his character.

As far as these posted "reports" I'm flummoxed.

BIG D SPEC REPORT THREAD

Originally Posted by Big D Pharma
We have run these on all my products along with thousands of blood work (serum) tests. And I mean thousands of blood work results. When i say my compounds are the best, I mean it, and have the paper work to prove it



Thousands of bloodwork? Lets do the math.
Lets assume 3000
First of all, thats well over $100,000 in lab fees.
Second - think of the time! Even at 10 samples PER DAY it would take a whole year to do that.

When someone actually gets bloodwork done and posts it in that sponsors thread and in the bloodwork section its something of an event and it gets discussed - because it doesnt happen all that often. This thread claims to have conducted more tests than everyone on all the boards put together and no one has talked about it elsewhere util now?

Not to mention the terms in the OP. To say that anything at 90% purity is the best in the business is false. 90% purity isn't even good enough for animal use. There are sponsors on this board who have never tested less than 95% and are usually over 97%. 85% for Primo E? There is a sponsor on this board whose PrimoE tested at well over 98%. I can't believe someone would brag about 85%! ts cute to blame the raws suppliers. That is clearly not the problem. Anyone can take 100% pure raw and dilute it down. Thats how 90% could easily happen. Just make 110 vials instead of 100.

Is there now supposed to be some reward for 90% purity? Laughable.

The fact that so many seem eager to jump on this ludicrous bandwagon is highly disturbing.

Lets see some bloodwork. When I started here I had to get several guys to run bloods on my Test C and E. Hardly a sale was made until those came in. I had to send my most expensive items (and several less expensive such as ancillaries) as requested by a stranger for spec testing. I didn't tell HIM what I would send, I sent what he asked because I wanted to prove that I am legit. Mission accomplished. How does this same standard not apply to anyone else? Because they posted some sort of report that was NOT generated by a mass spectromoter machine? cummon people. CUMMON,.

And you guys asking for Tren Reports? HE wont get it. He can't. The data needed to run those isn;t accessable to him even if he DID have a legit mass spectromoter (people do have them they are possible to purchase). He would need high level PhD department head chemistry library access to even start LOOKING for it.

I have plenty of customers. I don't even advertise anymore. I have no need to go to war with a company I don/t know. HOWEVER it truly disgusts me to see faked spec reports posted. Real ones are bad (dangerous) enough but if the last bastion of truth we have to test gear is science you better believe I will point out the bad and fake science every damn time I see it. It discredits us all and further puts everyone who buys into it right on the "I got scammed" ship. I've been here too long and care about you guys too much to stand by and see that happen to you.

 

[World-Pharma.org]

I also have nothing against Mike I enjoy reading almost anything he writes and he thinks GH15 is a buffoon which means he is right about something extremely important. He also maintains a cool and respectful non defensive approach which speaks to his character.

As far as these posted "reports" I'm flummoxed.

BIG D SPEC REPORT THREAD

Originally Posted by Big D Pharma
We have run these on all my products along with thousands of blood work (serum) tests. And I mean thousands of blood work results. When i say my compounds are the best, I mean it, and have the paper work to prove it



Thousands of bloodwork? Lets do the math.
Lets assume 3000
First of all, thats well over $100,000 in lab fees.
Second - think of the time! Even at 10 samples PER DAY it would take a whole year to do that.

When someone actually gets bloodwork done and posts it in that sponsors thread and in the bloodwork section its something of an event and it gets discussed - because it doesnt happen all that often. This thread claims to have conducted more tests than everyone on all the boards put together and no one has talked about it elsewhere util now?

Not to mention the terms in the OP. To say that anything at 90% purity is the best in the business is false. 90% purity isn't even good enough for animal use. There are sponsors on this board who have never tested less than 95% and are usually over 97%. 85% for Primo E? There is a sponsor on this board whose PrimoE tested at well over 98%. I can't believe someone would brag about 85%! ts cute to blame the raws suppliers. That is clearly not the problem. Anyone can take 100% pure raw and dilute it down. Thats how 90% could easily happen. Just make 110 vials instead of 100.

Is there now supposed to be some reward for 90% purity? Laughable.

The fact that so many seem eager to jump on this ludicrous bandwagon is highly disturbing.

Lets see some bloodwork. When I started here I had to get several guys to run bloods on my Test C and E. Hardly a sale was made until those came in. I had to send my most expensive items (and several less expensive such as ancillaries) as requested by a stranger for spec testing. I didn't tell HIM what I would send, I sent what he asked because I wanted to prove that I am legit. Mission accomplished. How does this same standard not apply to anyone else? Because they posted some sort of report that was NOT generated by a mass spectromoter machine? cummon people. CUMMON,.

And you guys asking for Tren Reports? HE wont get it. He can't. The data needed to run those isn;t accessable to him even if he DID have a legit mass spectromoter (people do have them they are possible to purchase). He would need high level PhD department head chemistry library access to even start LOOKING for it.

I have plenty of customers. I don't even advertise anymore. I have no need to go to war with a company I don/t know. HOWEVER it truly disgusts me to see faked spec reports posted. Real ones are bad (dangerous) enough but if the last bastion of truth we have to test gear is science you better believe I will point out the bad and fake science every damn time I see it. It discredits us all and further puts everyone who buys into it right on the "I got scammed" ship. I've been here too long and care about you guys too much to stand by and see that happen to you.

good post.

 

[Valkyrie]

MY DAMN MEATHEAD POSTING SKILLS. CORRECTED:

I also have nothing against Mike I enjoy reading almost anything he writes and he thinks GH15 is a buffoon which means he is right about something extremely important. He also maintains a cool and respectful non defensive approach which speaks to his character.

As far as these posted "reports" I'm flummoxed.

BIG D SPEC REPORT THREAD

Originally Posted by Big D Pharma
We have run these on all my products along with thousands of blood work (serum) tests. And I mean thousands of blood work results. When i say my compounds are the best, I mean it, and have the paper work to prove it

Wow. Sorry but this needs to be said. Do you realize EVERY long essay you write in the end is to plug a sponsor? Z, IML, PSL, and many peptide suppliers... now Big D. Thousands of bloodwork tests? Lets do the math. Regarding blood testing lets assume 3000. First of all, thats well over $100,000 in lab fees. Second - think of the time! Even at 10 samples PER DAY it would take a whole year to do that.

When someone actually gets bloodwork done and posts it in that sponsors thread and in the bloodwork section its something of an event and it gets discussed - because it doesn't happen all that often. This thread claims to have conducted more tests than everyone on all the boards put together and no one has talked about it elsewhere until now?

To say that anything at 90% purity is the best in the business is false. 90% purity isn't even good enough for animal use. There are sponsors on this board who have never tested less than 95% and are usually over 97%. 86% for Primo E? There is a sponsor on this board whose PrimoE tested at 98%. Its cute to blame the raws suppliers. That is clearly not the problem. Is there now supposed to be some reward for 90% purity. Laughable.
<snip> Is there now supposed to be some reward for 90% purity? Laughable.

Anyone can take 100% pure raw and dilute it down. Thats how 90% could easily happen. Just make 110 vials instead of 100.


The fact that so many seem eager to jump on this ludicrous bandwagon is highly disturbing.

Lets see some bloodwork. When I started here I had to get several guys to run bloods on my Test C and E. Hardly a sale was made until those came in. I had to send my most expensive items (and several less expensive such as ancillaries) as requested by a stranger for spec testing. I didn't tell HIM what I would send, I sent what he asked because I wanted to prove that I am legit. Mission accomplished. How does this same standard not apply to anyone else? Because they posted some sort of report that was NOT generated by a mass spectromoter machine? cummon people. CUMMON,.

And you guys asking for Tren Reports? HE wont get it. He can't. The data needed to run those isn;t accessable to him even if he DID have a legit mass spectromoter (people do have them they are possible to purchase). He would need high level PhD department head chemistry library access to even start LOOKING for it.

I have plenty of customers. I don't even advertise anymore. I have no need to go to war with a company I don/t know. HOWEVER it truly disgusts me to see faked spec reports posted. Real ones are bad (dangerous) enough but if the last bastion of truth we have to test gear is science you better believe I will point out the bad and fake science every damn time I see it. It discredits us all and further puts everyone who buys into it right on the "I got scammed" ship. I've been here too long and care about you guys too much to stand by and see that happen to you.

I need a secretary.

 

[Vision]

Can we not turn this thread into 'inter-sponsor wars' please.

Thanks.

I concur with this statesmen..Like I stressed prior, there's a vast amount of sponsors alike that have access to some of the purest Raws avail, I decide to not elaborate on that are for security factors.. With this being said not all UGL operate and manufacture under the same principles..There's a selected few that I know off hand that stand head and shoulders above the rest...Providing and end product that is not only quality, but sterile..
What Ive been advocating for sometime, is the lenght and measures that a UGL will go to, to assure quality control and provide mass test spec to the masses conducted by independent labs..
Reputations are earned in this market, not just handed on out a silver platter..No of course if we're speaking about a small mom/pop forum were the feedback and opinions seem biased.. For the most part the consensus can determine what labs are legit and deliver what they claim to produce..

There's labs that exist and manufacturer in facilities that have never been seen before in this market..Due to security reasons I won't disclose on their locations, however rules and regulations are rather different in these regions compared to the States that operate under strict guidelines by the FDA...

 

[JerseyDevil]

I need a secretary.

I offered but you said I was too expensive

 

[dieseljimmy]

MY DAMN MEATHEAD POSTING SKILLS. CORRECTED:

I need a secretary.[/COLOR]

Resume highlights
6'2 260 19 and some change in the shelves
No sexual harrassmemt training needed
Types less the 50 words a minute
Not holding a grudge that I didnt get "the" email
Likes dolph lungren.

ROID, XYZ, WOR and Saney references available.(good luck finding them)

 

[SheriV]

lololol@ 19 and some change


and he seriously needs his own editor because hes always typing on his phone instead of a proper computer