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Sorry my last response took so long, I was motorboating your avatar.
"motorboating"? Where are you from?
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what motivates a man to be anti-gun?
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"motorboating"? Where are you from?
All this comparing is a waste of time ... the variables and issues are sooo not close to workable in any comparison that it just spins the mental wheels in vain. England never had a shitload of guns like we do so there's just no way to do like they do over there. South American countries are all third world ... so what's the point of trying to get any objective data there? WE as a nation are in our own pile of issues with no country even close to being equal in our potential for causing or solving troubles for ourselves or the world ... so why bother?
Address this issue directly and you will come up with basic facts that extrapolate outward to cover complex issues.
Address this issue directly and you will come up with basic facts that extrapolate outward to cover complex issues.
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Huh, I did mention Australia.
Scotland is part of the UK, which I've already mentioned.
Finland, Belgium, Denmark, and Norway are micro-countries that preclude and apples-to-apple comparison to the US. Oh, and by all means, please do challenge this.
Do you know what the privacy laws are in the remaining countries? Hmmm?
So, because they have active wars, they should be exempt? Okay, I can go with that. Now, let's just remove the murder committed in the US by the estimate 10,000,000 to 20,000,000 illegal Mexicans that live here. What happens to the murder number in the US then? :waiting:
No, it doesn't. It's more a function of the lack of privacy. I've already established that guns aren't required for a high murder rate. Plus, as I've already pointed out (which you seem to have conveniently missed), they message their murder numbers.
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I completely agree. My belief is that the problem lies with the minorities.
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Yes. I've never heard of this term. I assume that it's a euphemism for masturbating.
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1. Motorboating
97 up, 20 down
The placement of one's face, specifically the mouth, into the area between a well-endowed woman's breasts, followed by a rapid shaking of the face in a side-to-side motion accompanied by yelling. The resulting sound that is created sounds similar to an outboard boat motor.
Sherry was wearing a low-cut top and Mike approached her and started motorboating in her cleavage.
urbandictionary.com
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Oh you kill me!!
You knew motorboating? I kind of figured it missed your generation.
OLDIE JOKE! 
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It was a joke, thanks for not laughing at it.
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I'm here for you.
We ALL agree that the problem lies with the minority of the Americans that will bust the legal limits for their own bullshit reasons. Now the rights of mostly law abiding Americans are brought out into question ... as a means to control these buttboys that will not follow ANY laws established to control crime. The crack head is gonna do whatever to get his buzz on. Taking my guns away (you can't do it trust me there) will not stop the crack head from trying to steal my 103" plasma. Now if you leave me alone I will stop that same crack head. Then we just call DG to come do the paperwork, throw up some cool yellow tape, draw a chalk-line and take some photos. DG I love to cook so the grub is on me
.
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We ALL agree that the problem lies with the minority of the Americans that will bust the legal limits for their own bullshit reasons. Now the rights of mostly law abiding Americans are brought out into question ... as a means to control these buttboys that will not follow ANY laws established to control crime. The crack head is gonna do whatever to get his buzz on. Taking my guns away (you can't do it trust me there) will not stop the crack head from trying to steal my 103" plasma. Now if you leave me alone I will stop that same crack head. Then we just call DG to come do the paperwork, through up some cool yellow tape, draw a chalk-line and take some photos. DG I love to cook so the grub is on me
Well said!
Oh... you caught me off guard with the "masturbation" comment.
I had to wipe coffee off my monitor.
It's all good.
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I aim to please.
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We ALL agree that the problem lies with the minority of the Americans that will bust the legal limits for their own bullshit reasons. Now the rights of mostly law abiding Americans are brought out into question ... as a means to control these buttboys that will not follow ANY laws established to control crime. The crack head is gonna do whatever to get his buzz on. Taking my guns away (you can't do it trust me there) will not stop the crack head from trying to steal my 103" plasma. Now if you leave me alone I will stop that same crack head. Then we just call DG to come do the paperwork, throw up some cool yellow tape, draw a chalk-line and take some photos. DG I love to cook so the grub is on me
For the LOVE OF GOD DO NOT MENTION CRACK HEADS!!! We have people among us who cannot understand the concept of an example, and you may be drawn into a five page debate about the frequency of crack head crime. Just say "criminals."
As to Decker, I was pleasantly surprised with your first post in this thread. Now I have been let down. Anyway, I have had 7 hours of sleep total in the last two nights. I am going to bed, when I get up, I will post some things that you apparently haven't considered.
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You come into every thread obnoxiously. Posts like this are the reason you hold very little respect on this forum.
No it's not a function of privacy laws and no you haven't shown anything of the like as far as the connection btn # of guns and people.
Look at this:
Statistically, the United States is not a particularly violent society. Although gun proponents like to compare this country with hot spots like Colombia, Mexico, and Estonia (making America appear a truly peaceable kingdom), a more relevant comparison is against other high-income, industrialized nations.
http://www.harvard-magazine.com/on-line/090433.html
"The only thing that jumps out is lethal violence," Hemenway says. Violence, pace H. Rap Brown, is not "as American as cherry pie," but American violence does tend to end in death. The reason, plain and simple, is guns. We own more guns per capita than any other high-income country???maybe even more than one gun for every man, woman, and child in the country. A 1994 survey numbered the U.S. gun supply at more than 200 million in a population then numbered at 262 million, and currently about 35 percent of American households have guns. (These figures count only civilian guns; Switzerland, for example, has plenty of military weapons per capita.)
David Hemenway '66, Ph.D. '74 directs the Harvard Injury Control Research Center at the School of Public Health (www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc), summarizes and interprets findings from hundreds of surveys and from epidemiological and field studies to deliver on the book's subtitle: A Dramatic New Plan for Ending America's Epidemic of Gun Violence.
I will try harder. I really didn't want to get into a debate about guns and gun violence.
I'm much more appreciative of the legal underpinnings of the right to own guns in america in the first place.
Regulation of guns really doesn't interest me.
On the other hand, take away the guns and you take away the gun murders.
I love facile solutions.
I am pretty certain no one is going to post any study, any stats, or any "facts" that are going to change anybody else's mind since a hole can be shot in any argument, pun intended. So, vote who you want into office, hope they get you whatever things you want, and if they don't, run for office yourself or vote someone else into office next time around.
You are correct sir.
And thanks for the final word b/c it is all political.
Dale you've been very insightful and articulate this week. What the fuck?
Have you forgotten....about this: http://www.farts.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=1
Remember your roots.
We ALL agree that the problem lies with the minority of the Americans that will bust the legal limits for their own bullshit reasons. Now the rights of mostly law abiding Americans are brought out into question ... as a means to control these buttboys that will not follow ANY laws established to control crime. The crack head is gonna do whatever to get his buzz on. Taking my guns away (you can't do it trust me there) will not stop the crack head from trying to steal my 103" plasma. Now if you leave me alone I will stop that same crack head. Then we just call DG to come do the paperwork, throw up some cool yellow tape, draw a chalk-line and take some photos. DG I love to cook so the grub is on me
LOL, looks pretty clear cut to me.Thugs tried to break into your house while you were sleeping. You heard them, woke up and protected your family by shooting the intruders. I think you deserve a medal! One less bad guy off the streets.
And it should not matter what the gun is or what is is used for. There should be no regulation on it unless you are a convicted felon. We all should have the right to own what we wish. I don't like people who smoke around me, but I'm not advocating a smoking ban.
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Yes I did. You pointed out that the US has more guns per capita of any other country. I pointed out that that there are other countries have a much higher incident of murder but, quite obviously, have less guns. You attempt to correlate the per capita possession of guns to murder rates is bogus, and generally shitty.
You've got to love the title of that crap, "David Hemenway applies scientific method to the gun problem". The he states that the only valid comparison to make is the US to other Western countries, but fails to provide meaningful data. He simply, like you, picks and chooses the information that he presents. Not only that, but it seems as though he's fabricating "facts." Case in point, the author writes, "'Where do Canadian criminals, and Mexican criminals, get their handguns?' asks Hemenway. 'From the United States.'" Canada perhaps, but Mexico? It's not like they couldn't get the guns cheaper from China or any of the south American gun manufacturers. American guns, like all American products, are expensive to purchase, if only due to the exchange rate. As of today, the USD exchanges for ~11 Mexican Pesos. What else might he be fabricating?
He also goes on to state, "Virtually all industrialized nations have stronger firearms laws than the United States. " He also fails to note that many of those same nations enjoy far less rights than the citizens of the US do.
Again he, and you, may be willing to exchange rights for safety, but I won't.
Also, among the first world countries that he insists only the only ones that can be made a valid comparison of, he neglects (omits, really) to discuss the very relevant factor of population size. He also chooses to ignore which Western countries border third-world countries. Also a very relevant factor.
The only way that you, or the author of that trash, can hope to win the argument of gun owner equally increased incidents of murder, is to pick and choose the facts. In other words, to lie.
I try not to debate people that post in an insulting, dishonest manor.
I"m a intalek2all ewe see sew eye knead peepole two bea pre-paired four alot.
Unless someone pisses me off then it's on like donkey-kong.
I compare apples to apples--socio-economically developed countries w/ socio-economically developed countries
You compare the US with every country.
You are the ultimate relativist. You have no standards for comparison b/c all are equal.
You have no criterion for building an intelligent persuasive case. Why not just compare the US to Colombia and Darfur....Oh you did.
All intellectual endeavor is based on ordering raw data in a certain manner. Does that make it a lie? To you it does.
Please explain to me why the chart below does not show a correlation between the amount of firearms and the murder rate. I am not talking about causation but you are.
........Murder Firearm
Year Rate ....Sales
----------------------
1985 7.9 .....$1,548
1986 8.6 .....1,647
1987 8.3 .....1,667
1988 8.4 .....1,810
1989 8.7 .....1,777
1990 9.4 .....1,602
1991 9.8 .....1,859
1992 9.3 .....1,829
1993 9.5 .....2,095
source: Murder rate: FBI, Crime in the United States, annual. Firearm sales: National Sporting Goods Association, The Sporting Goods Market in 1994 (and prior issues), based on a sample survey of 80,000 households, excluding Alaska and Hawaii. Current dollars converted to constant dollars by CPI-U.
Since 1989, manufacturers and importers introduced an average of 3.5 million new guns into the U.S. market each year. By contrast, the U.S. resident population has grown an average of 2.7 million a year. That's roughly 800,000 extra guns a year.
Source:Firearms: ATF, June 29, 1994; U.S. Firearms Production, American Firearms Industry, March 1994, p. 41; ATF, February 23, 1993; and U.S. Firearms Production 1993, American Firearms Industry, January 1995, p. 74. Population: U.S. Bureau of the Census, Current Population Reports, P25-1045 and P25-1126.
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The US is unlike any other Western Country. Both in terms of population size and make up. The apples-to-apple comparison that you're looking for is, like much of your personal liberal world, pure fantasy.
Sure we can compare on some points of society, such as how we treat the elderly, but comparing murder rates and gun use from country to country isn't one of them.
None of that changes the fact that in the so-called "safer" countries, less personal rights are enjoyed. It's a trade off, safety or freedom. You can't dance around that simple fact. You're willing to trade freedom for safety.
Yes, because it's apple-to-oranges, or it's nothing.
Let's try this exercise: Pick your target country to compare the US to in terms of gun ownership and murder. Just one. (This is going to be a slaughter, so to speak.)
Bwaahahaahahaah. That's too easy!
The Department of Homeland Security estimated in December, 2003, that 8 million to 12 million illegal aliens resided in the United States and 700,000 new illegals enter and stay each year.
It's not the weapons, it's the people. And keep in mind that Mexico has less guns than the US, but a higher rate of murder.
Have you ever seen the murder statistics for the USA when you filter out the minorities? I doubt it.
Your data doesn't support you nor do you account for such a small change in numbers overall.
1985 7.9 .....$1,548
1986 8.6 .....1,647 consistant
1987 8.3 .....1,667 murder rate down / gun sales up
1988 8.4 .....1,810 >
1989 8.7 .....1,777 >
1990 9.4 .....1,602 consistant
1991 9.8 .....1,859 >
1992 9.3 .....1,829 >
1993 9.5 .....2,095 >murder rate down / gun sales up
