What routine are you currently using?

[Dr.G]

you took it like that... anyways there are no needs to pursue the argument it is better to stick to the discussion about training without name calling don't you think so?

 

[PushAndPull]

Alright then. As far as gaining size in rep ranges outside of the typical 8-12 I can't word it better then cowpimp and gaz did in your previous thread with them.

You can gain mass in pretty much any rep range. I don't buy into the so called "mass building range" of 8-12, because i refuse to believe that there's a significant different between 7 and 8 reps, or 12 and 13. Hell, even 6 and 8 reps are similar enough.

All you need to get bigger is a surplus of calories, and an increased training load over a long enough period of time to allow your body to grow. How you increase your training load is almost irrelevant because different people will respond better to different things, but the general principle works across the board.

Look at some of the best mass training programs out there:


- 20 Rep Squat program = increased squat load over 6 weeks, 1 set of 20 reps.

- Heavy Duty / HIT = Increase rep volume/load over 6-12 weeks, usually 1 set per exercise but ALWAYS increasing something.

- Doggcrapp = Similar to above. A huge part of DC training is logging your workouts and making sure you challenge yourself to beat those numbers every week. PROGRESSION!

- 5x5 = Increases the weight on the bar constantly throughout the training cycle.

- EDT = Increases training density every workout (work over time).


The list could go on really. Even typical no-thought bodybuilding routines stress the need to put more weight on the bar. This is what's really important rather than the rep range. So long as something is consistently progressing and improving over say 8 weeks and you're eating enough food to recover, you'll gain mass.

8-12 rep sets are not necessarily considered optimal. What is considered optimal is using weights between your 5-12RM. This corresponds to about 70-85% of your 1RM. Performing 5 sets of 5 using a flat weight for all work sets means you have to use about 80% of your 1RM. This is right in that optimal range.

Furthermore, just because there is an optimal range doesn't mean that no hypertrophy can results from training outside of it. The main problem with weights heavier than that is it is hard to accumulate enough volume to maximally stimulate hypertrophy, though you should still see some. Training lighter than that will not likely result in significant amounts of hypertrophy unless you are completely new to resistance training, then as little as 40% of 1RM can stimulate hypertrophy.

 

[RcKJ]

Yes your post was, not sure what good 5x5 set/reps can do......these are really low rep ranges.

5x5 are usually only done for power lifts. For those who want to get to that extra weight. For example, stuck and can't bench that shiny 3 plates? Try to work up to 5x5 with 275 (with proper warm-up). Doing either 5x5 or 5/3/1 are both excellent for that. They're not set ranges for mass, but for strength. Lifting heavy ass weight. Just takes time like anything else worth working for. Also, not defending anyone, but from my own experience it's great for adding power. Not so much mass.

 

[RcKJ]

But as far as routines go, I usually lift 5 days a week. Fridays and Sundays being rest days. In the order of:
Chest (heavy), back/bi's, shoulders, chest ("light")/tri's, rest, deads/legs, rest

I focus every workout around a powerlift. Then work into more isolated movements. What's the point of getting big if you aren't strong? Haha

 

[PushAndPull]

5x5 are usually only done for power lifts. For those who want to get to that extra weight. For example, stuck and can't bench that shiny 3 plates? Try to work up to 5x5 with 275 (with proper warm-up). Doing either 5x5 or 5/3/1 are both excellent for that. They're not set ranges for mass, but for strength. Lifting heavy ass weight. Just takes time like anything else worth working for. Also, not defending anyone, but from my own experience it's great for adding power. Not so much mass.

I've added just as much mass if not more using 5x5 routines. I've also added a lot of mass using other routines that do not use normal rep ranges, like the 20 rep squat routine. Supposedly a rep range of 20 is suppose to be for endurance only, not mass. But as cowpimp pointed out, it's the accompanying intensity that matters. You can do 8-12 rep range with 50% intensity and make zero gains. The problem in a program focusing on strength is getting enough volume. 5x5 is high volume routine for strength training, and you can definitely gain mass on it. That's why it's so popular. Likewise, the problem in a program focusing on volume is the intensity. As long as your program has sufficient volume, intensity, progression, etc... then you should gain mass. If you're using a good 5x5 routine and not gaining mass, then the first thing I would look at is my diet.

 

[futureMrO]

monday chest/tries/abs
tuesday front legs/shoulders/calves
wednesday back/bis/forearms
thursday chest/tris/ abs'
friday back legs/shoulders/ calves
off saturday and sunday EAT!!!!

 

[Dr.G]

i explained in an earlier reply in this thread the logical reasoning behind going higher reps and the correlation between strength and size.......it is not all in the intensity but also in the duration in order to fully use all the muscle fibers......and also that low and high reps are relative to a person for some 8 reps is high and some others 8 is too low ..it depends on their type of muscles and their lifting history.

 

[RcKJ]

I've added just as much mass if not more using 5x5 routines. I've also added a lot of mass using other routines that do not use normal rep ranges, like the 20 rep squat routine. Supposedly a rep range of 20 is suppose to be for endurance only, not mass. But as cowpimp pointed out, it's the accompanying intensity that matters. You can do 8-12 rep range with 50% intensity and make zero gains. The problem in a program focusing on strength is getting enough volume. 5x5 is high volume routine for strength training, and you can definitely gain mass on it. That's why it's so popular. Likewise, the problem in a program focusing on volume is the intensity. As long as your program has sufficient volume, intensity, progression, etc... then you should gain mass. If you're using a good 5x5 routine and not gaining mass, then the first thing I would look at is my diet.

Excellent points! Not saying I haven't gained mass from 5x5 but I always found that it helped me better with strength opposed to mass. But it's also going to come down to genetics. Some people may react well to lower reps while others react better to higher reps. Personally I prefer higher reps for everything that isn't a powerlift. But I totally agree with what you're saying.

 

[DegenerateSteve]

Speaking of the 5x5....I use one of Jim Stoppani's books for help designing and cycling new programs it's got a pretty interesting one called "higher-strength" in which after you do your 5x5 you do an additional rep where you drop the weight to 45-50% of what you were doing and bust out 25-30 of them. The high rep kicker supposedly triggers more growth hormone. I'm not a scientist so I won't get into all that, but I've personally tried it with awesome results.

 

[RcKJ]

Speaking of the 5x5....I use one of Jim Stoppani's books for help designing and cycling new programs it's got a pretty interesting one called "higher-strength" in which after you do your 5x5 you do an additional rep where you drop the weight to 45-50% of what you were doing and bust out 25-30 of them. The high rep kicker supposedly triggers more growth hormone. I'm not a scientist so I won't get into all that, but I've personally tried it with awesome results.

dang it if I only read that sooner I would have thrown that in my shoulders today! Haha oh well there's always next time.

 

[MuscleGauge1]

These are great routines guys and good conversation. Lets see what everyone else is doing right now and see how its working for them. What kind of results have you had with your current routine? What are some of your personal records and maxes? Whats your favorite exercise in your routine?

 

[DegenerateSteve]

yea it worked well for me. I can't train shoulders super heavy anymore though. Messed up my rotator wrestling when I was younger, it flares up if I train heavy for to long.

 

[DegenerateSteve]

Encyclopedia of Muscle and Strength - Google Books

I'm on week 6 of Jim's "big guns" program. It works. I posted the link if anyone wants to check it out. My arms have shown noticeable gains in size and I got my vein visible and decently pronounced. If I could do it over from the jump I would have adjusted my diet and planned a little better, I honestly haven't eatin enough to gain much. I did eat very clean though and have been lowering bf.

 

[Burrn]

Senior lifter here, doing oldschool full body 3 days a week.