what would u do if u got drafted

[Randy]

Maybe I used the wrong choice of words at some point.
Am I wrong to say that our purpose in Iraq was to remove Saddam from power and within Iraq/Bagdad capture and dismantle the Alkida Network Terrorist Regime? I know I couldn't be that far off track here.. I don't claim to be any expert on this war or the politics, but am trying to describe our basic purpose of our involvement in Iraq.

Futhermore I did not mean to imply that the Iraqi people are terrorists. But it is my understanding that many of the terrorist groups resided within Iraq/Bagdad .

 

[V Player]

I would go in a fucking heartbeat.

 

[Randy]

Metal V ... That's the spirit...

 

[NickB]

The war on Iraq was not pitched as simply to remove sadamm from power. The administration claimed Iraq had ties to al qaeda (it didnt) and that Iraq was a clear and present danger to the US due to it's having WMD (it didn't). People hang on to the "Oh it was to remove sadam" spiel because it helps them justify an unjust war.

 

[Stickboy]

Most of the US military are fine people, however, there is a core of people who shoot first and ask questions later. They are not held accountable to the Geneva convention or the ICC. Compare the rules of engagement of the US against the UK and you'll see a clear difference if you care to look.

Quite frankly, you are talking out of your ass - you don't know what you are talking about. I suggest you read and understand the LOAC (Law of Armed Conflict).

ROE's are established by each country. Last time I looked, we've been free from the British rules for a while now.

If you think your nation is above the Geneva Convention and the ICC you immediately lose your moral standing in the world. The abuses in Iraqi prison and other military camps where people are imprisoned without charge or legal defense are unconstitutional.

I agree abuse of prisoners should be dealt with, and dealt with severely.

On the other thought.......What makes you assume our Constitution applies to them? Most of these people were enemy combatants.

Note:
As enemy combatants, terrorists may be lawfully killed by virtue of their membership in the enemy group rather than their individual conduct. If a nation's armed forces harbor or support terrorists, the facts will determine whether they are lawful or unlawful combatants. Lawful combatants are protected under the Geneva Convention Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War and entitled to specific privileges while captured. Unlawful combatants have no such rights.

 

[Randy]

Sorry, I didn't mention one of the root causes of our involvment, the WMD (Weapons of Mass Destruction.) But that was a given in my mind. Do you really believe that it wasn't a threat? Come on now. It was proven that they had them. Why do you think they had them? They wanted to add them to their collection of toys. The question wasn't whether they were a threat and whether they would use them? The question was just when they would use them. And you deny the fact that our main purpose of going to Iraq was to remove Saddam? Well it was a large part of it. You say that people say this to help them justify an unjust war... You are delusional Nick..... Come on and get real. Wake up and smell the coffee.

 

[Stickboy]

I actually doubt Iraq would have used WMD's on the US directly. They would have given them to terrorist to use, so they could claim innocence (claim they were stolen).

THAT folks, is why we went in. They couldn't prove they destroyed them, stalled, swaggered, and ultimately lost. Had Saddam played this differently, and abided by sanctions, he would still be in power.

 

[Rocky_Road]

Your underlying assumption is that it's a just war to defend your nation. The Iraq war doesn't fit this category, nor I suspect will future Bush wars. If people choose to avoid these type of wars they aren't cowards, they are intelligent enough to avoid politically motivated and unnecessary wars. Go ahead an be a sandbag for your country if you want, just don't expect to drag other people with you.

Amen.

 

[Burner02]

oh yea i changed my mind bout what im gonna do if i get drafted...... ill slep everybody who voted for bush in the face hehehe

bring a lunch...it's gonna be a long day..

 

[seven11]

hehehe i prolly woudlnt do it, cuz then ill be dead even before ariveing to iraq

 

[Randy]

Nice one Burner Isn't that the truth

 

[Burner02]

u know how long I have wanted to say that to someone??

 

[redspy]

And what is the root cause ?
I can't help being an Infidel in their eyes and it ain't going to change. And I do think I have the right to live, regardless of what they think.?

Well, American foreign policy is a large contributing factor. The CIA's support of various regimes (e.g. Iran, Iraq, Afganistan) and intervention to suit their own needs.

The Israel/Palestine conflict is another major reason. Muslims don't like seeing thousands of Palestinians being killed with American political, financial and military support. Bush talks about installing democracy in Iraq and freeing the people from dictatorship while ignoring the Israeli conflict. The US thirst for power over oil reserves is also another factor. These reasons aren't justification for terrorism but you need to understand the root of problem and not just tackle the symptoms. Repeating crap from Bush about "they hate us for our freedoms" doesn't cut it. Their hatred is a sum of many things.

I'm not trying to make excuses of these guys but you have to accept that US foreign policy (regardless of the politcal party) promoted hatred of the US.

But with Terrorism, you need to intercept these guys before they commit the crime.

Easy to say but how do you effectively tackle terrorism in a country so large and open as the US? The 9/11 disaster was a result of 19 hijackers, a small support team and $400,000. They used our our infrastructure against us and fucked us over. How do you stop a huge bomb going off in the NY subway or train station? Other than flying travel is no safer now than it was pre 9/11. The Patriot Act has had very little impact and despite rising intelligence budgets we're not really safer. My overall point is in addtion to securing the nation you need to understand why people commit terrorist acts. All the money, military might in the world can't solve the problem alone. Robbing people of civil liberties will be equally uneffective. You need to be smart in this war, not just brutal.

 

[Little Wing]

If this country was so hard up for soldiers that it had to draft me we would be in such serious trouble I could not refuse to go.

 

[HARD_Right]

I would serve with pride. All people not willing to serve their country in what ever manor needed give up the right to complain about the way their country serves them.

 

[BoneCrusher]

I think if I get drafted I'd look up guys like Hardright and Rich and do things I cannot say here for fear of getting banned

 

[busyLivin]

I think if I get drafted I'd look up guys like Hardright and Rich and do things I cannot say here for fear of getting banned

 

[milliman]

Red,

Thanks for changing the signature thing.
As a conservative (I admit it), it was really bothersome since it had nothing to do with being conservative.

On to better discourse . . .

Well, American foreign policy is a large contributing factor. The CIA's support of various regimes (e.g. Iran, Iraq, Afganistan) and intervention to suit their own needs..

A factor, yes! A large factor, probably not. We have supported groups off and on to try to keep stability in the area. So one country did not wipe out the other side. I guess this could go to the heart of the oil thing you and BC keep bringing up. Lets think it out.

BC likes to say that we are only over there for the oil. Like we are trying to steal it or something. This is definitely no the case. If it were, we would have never left Kuwait after Desert Storm in 1991.

The US is definitley the largest consumer of oil in the world. So if the supply is interupted somehow, we will feel it the most. It goes into more than just gas, it goes into all of our rubber and plastics too. So it would impact many products.

Our interest in oil is only to keep the free supply of oil flowing to whoever is going to buy it. The US or anyone else. That was BUY IT, not take it by force. In order to keep a stable market, you have to have multiple producers.
If the producers shrink to a small group, now you have a monopoly and can control the market and price. OPEC is such a group. But in order to control the market, they have to all work together and do the same thing.

Basic economics. Cut production, the price goes up.
If they all agree to cut production, the price will go up. But if we talk one of them into increasing production to make up for the shortage caused by the others, then overall productions has not changed and the price remains the same. Saudi Arabia comes to mind on this issue. They have helped out the world due to our influence a couple times when the rest of OPEC tried to cut production.

On the Arab side, the sale of oil brings in money to that country that is spent somewhere. The Arabs need that money to support their countries too. So they do not want to see it stop either.

The US did not want to see Saddam take over Kuwait, and then maybe someone else too. If Saddam took over the Kuwaiti oil fields he now has extra oil to sell. His monthly cash needs are the same, so he could cut back production and not have it impact his cash needs at all. Thus he could drive up the world price for oil and not harm to himself. If he took over another country, this scenario could just get worse.

So again, we were there in 1991 not to take over the oil, but to kick Saddam out of Kuwait, stabalize the oil market and keep it flowing. Same is true today. We are not there for the oil. We are there for a different agenda. We will leave and Iraq will still have their oil.

The Israel/Palestine conflict is another major reason. Muslims don't like seeing thousands of Palestinians being killed with American political, financial and military support. Bush talks about installing democracy in Iraq and freeing the people from dictatorship while ignoring the Israeli conflict.

I'm not trying to make excuses of these guys but you have to accept that US foreign policy (regardless of the politcal party) promoted hatred of the US.

The Israel/Palestine conflict is definitely a lightning rod for them. They hate Israel intensly. And since we support them, they hate us for it too.

I don't know if what kind of answer there is too this. Clinton tried to get it resolved as part of his legacy and it only made it worse. Clinton got Nettanyehu (I think) elected (liberal dove). Clinton invited Arafat and him to camp David for a peace settlement. Clinton told Nettanyehu to offer Arafat a Palastinian state in exchange for peace, which he did. Arafat refused this and the killing just escalated after that.

The fundamental Arab and Palastinian position is that Israel does not have a right to exist or live. How can you negotiate on that ?

Probably the best thing that could happen, is if Arafat dies from his current medical problems. New leadership could not be any worse.

Biblically (Gen 16), this problem goes back to Abraham and his two sons Isaac and Ishmael. Ishmael (son of a maid) was father to the Arabs and Isaac (Sarah's son) the father of Israel. They hated each other since the Ishmael was sent away from the house of Abraham. And so it goes today. God said there would be enmity between them and it has.

If you give the Palastinians a state, and they keep their fundamental principle that Israel has no right to exist, they will continue to bomb them. If they have their own state, they would probably have an airport, military etcetera. How do you stop them from flying planes into Israel with bombs ?

The Arabs have tried multiple times to wipe Israel out and lost in each war.

The solution to this has evaded all of the great minds to this day. But the fundamental problem is you can't negotiate with someone who says you have no right to live or exist.

Easy to say but how do you effectively tackle terrorism in a country so large and open as the US? The 9/11 disaster was a result of 19 hijackers, a small support team and $400,000. They used our our infrastructure against us and fucked us over. How do you stop a huge bomb going off in the NY subway or train station? Other than flying travel is no safer now than it was pre 9/11. The Patriot Act has had very little impact and despite rising intelligence budgets we're not really safer. My overall point is in addtion to securing the nation you need to understand why people commit terrorist acts. All the money, military might in the world can't solve the problem alone. Robbing people of civil liberties will be equally uneffective. You need to be smart in this war, not just brutal.

Hard is an understatement. But I do think we are doing a good job. We have not had an attack since then. I am sure Al Qaeda tried since they succeeded in influencing the Spain elections, but with our additional security, they have not been able to yet. They have said they were going to hit us again, but it has not happened yet. But it is just a matter of time.

My wife was a prosecuting attorney for the DA office. Proving something is hard to do. Imagine trying to prove that you told your kids to kill the neighbors cat. How would you do it ? You would have to intercept communications between you and them, since nothing is in writing.

And since our system is reactive (police act after a crime has been committed) how would you catch someone plotting a crime. Nothing bad has happened yet.

But you are right, you have to balance this with our right unlawful searches too. I know I want them to be able to try to intercept the bad guys plans and it should not impact me since I am a good guy. Other than beating my wife, spanking the kids, kicking the cat, choking the dog (just kidding)

 

[Rich46yo]

""""""Originally Posted by BoneCrusher
I think if I get drafted I'd look up guys like Hardright and Rich and do things I cannot say here for fear of getting banned """""

Rich already served his country faithfully and honorably for four years, including 19 mos in the MidEast theatre of Operations, where that picture to the upper left was taken. It is indeed unfortunate there are so many boneheads like bonehead here that try to belittle those of us who have given,and are giving, such big chunks of their lives to preserve liberty and safeguard the US. Even worse, with their idiotic statements and leftists rants, they are insulting the memory of all those who have fallen so "you" would have the right to post what you want.

There are exceptions, mostly among the woman, but I find todays current crop of American 18 to 26yo's to be about as pathetic a bunch of whiney-assed mommies boys as this country ever produced. "IF" there was a draft, and theres no way there will be, I suspect the sound of the stampede over the Canadian border would be reminiscent of the great Buffalo herds of the 1800's .

Like I said there are "exceptions" and those here that are should take no offense from my observations of your youthful brethen. Indeed the fact that we havnt been hit again by these animals in our homeland is a testiment to the courage of Americas young men and woman who have decided to serve, and are currently killing the enemy on their own turf.
On behalf of those currently in harms way, and we veterans who have been, I certainly thank those young people here who have said they would indeed serve if called. I would hope that you always honor those who have died, or been wounded, in defense of the freedom that to many take for granted. I hope that one day many of you, as I once did, live in a country where such freedoms are non-existant. It will make you much more appreciative of your own country.

The rest of you? The ones who'd run to Canada? I wouldnt piss on you if I saw you on fire!...................go ahead.................Mommies calling........................ .............Rich

 

[Randy]

The rest of you? The ones who'd run to Canada? I wouldnt piss on you if I saw you on fire!...................go ahead.................Mommies calling........................ .............Rich

This should be quoted in our history books.

The ones who'd run to Canada? I wouldnt piss on you if I saw you on fire!

Nice! Rich

 

[MaxMirkin]

""""""Originally Posted by BoneCrusher
I think if I get drafted I'd look up guys like Hardright and Rich and do things I cannot say here for fear of getting banned """""

Rich already served his country faithfully and honorably for four years, including 19 mos in the MidEast theatre of Operations, where that picture to the upper left was taken. It is indeed unfortunate there are so many boneheads like bonehead here that try to belittle those of us who have given,and are giving, such big chunks of their lives to preserve liberty and safeguard the US. Even worse, with their idiotic statements and leftists rants, they are insulting the memory of all those who have fallen so "you" would have the right to post what you want.

There are exceptions, mostly among the woman, but I find todays current crop of American 18 to 26yo's to be about as pathetic a bunch of whiney-assed mommies boys as this country ever produced. "IF" there was a draft, and theres no way there will be, I suspect the sound of the stampede over the Canadian border would be reminiscent of the great Buffalo herds of the 1800's .

Like I said there are "exceptions" and those here that are should take no offense from my observations of your youthful brethen. Indeed the fact that we havnt been hit again by these animals in our homeland is a testiment to the courage of Americas young men and woman who have decided to serve, and are currently killing the enemy on their own turf.
On behalf of those currently in harms way, and we veterans who have been, I certainly thank those young people here who have said they would indeed serve if called. I would hope that you always honor those who have died, or been wounded, in defense of the freedom that to many take for granted. I hope that one day many of you, as I once did, live in a country where such freedoms are non-existant. It will make you much more appreciative of your own country.

The rest of you? The ones who'd run to Canada? I wouldnt piss on you if I saw you on fire!...................go ahead.................Mommies calling........................ .............Rich

Rich is way into that whole "Golden Shower" thing, and his Mommie..........mayhaps someone has had experience combining the two?

 

[redspy]

I heard he was a scat muncher.

 

[Randy]

Rich is way into that whole "Golden Shower" thing, and his Mommie..........mayhaps someone has had experience combining the two?

 

[ALBOB]

If this country was so hard up for soldiers that it had to draft me we would be in such serious trouble I could not refuse to go.

I want to be in RG's platoon. (Actually I just want to be in RG. )

 

[Chain Link]

I want to be in RG's platoon. (Actually I just want to be in RG. )

You cant push a rope!

 

[Burner02]

I want to be in RG's platoon. (Actually I just want to be in RG. )

did they just up your dosage if viagra again, albob?

Was'sup, brotha!

 

[Randy]

I want to be in RG's platoon. (Actually I just want to be in RG. )

I would agree with you Albob, I sure wouldn't complain being in a fox hole with Rocky, or should I say be in Rockies Hole-some body.

Now see what you did Albob. Now you have me talking like Max..

 

[Chain Link]

I think if I get drafted I'd look up guys like Hardright and Rich and do things I cannot say here for fear of getting banned

I dont think Robert would ban you for getting your ass kicked

 

[ALBOB]

You cant push a rope!

I don't need to. I can lick my eyebrows.

 

[Chain Link]

I don't need to. I can lick my eyebrows.