Why is the deficit so big?

[min0 lee]

It could be because billion dollar companies are robbing the U.S. Treasury blind
One of the reasons you and I and other ordinary American citizens are taxed so much and still live in a country with a huge Federal deficit is because multi-billion dollar American corporations are taxed so little.


They move money around ??? around Europe and the Caribbean ??? to make their tax liabilities disappear.

According to Bloomberg news, Google and other U.S. corporations are ripping off the taxpayer to the tune of $60 billion. Now Facebook is about to follow. And there are still others.

The Tea Party and Republican wingnut solution is to cut or eliminate Social Security and Medicare, Federal payments to the states, money for infrastructure and everything else that once made America work.

The smarter solution would be to cut the tax loopholes that let the big corporate thieves get away with this stuff. But Republicans in Congress won't let it happen. If you want to get mad as hell at something, get mad as hell at that.

P.S. An earlier version of this post contained an error attributing the whole $60 billion to Google. That has been corrected. Thank you to those who pointed it out. However, no thanks to those fearful (or furious) souls who declare that if the American people try to collect what they're owed by the corporations, the corporations will leave the country. That's like saying, "If we try to stop that band of bandits, they'll burn down our village and rape our women." I agree the corporations will try to leave the country, just as so many have moved their manufacturing plants out of the country and thrown Americans out of jobs so the factories can pay paupers' wages. So I'm glad you brought the matter iup. We can stop this.

We need to urge Congress to pass criminal laws that would fine companies the equivalent of the wages and taxes they escape by moving overseas. If they want to sell goods here, or do business here, they can employ Americans and pay American taxes here. You say they'll stop doing business in this huge market if we try. Fine. I can guarantee you that some entrepreneurial (and honest) Americans will rush in to fill the vacuum.

But...but...but the right-wingnuts will complain that if companies pay American wages and pay American taxes, prices in America would go up. I agree. That's the price we pay for full employment and a growing economy, rather than unemployment and a dying economy. Which would you rather: Have a job or pay an extra dime for a bag of carrots? (I can hardly wait for some genius to do the math and tell me it's not a dime, it's 17 cents.)

P.P.S. My policy is to allow any post that is not libelous or outrageously, formidably obscene. However, I do screen for those things, and I only do so once or twice a day. So if you don't find your post here for a while, be patient. It'll show up. Probably.

 

[maniclion]

I've been saying this for a long time, those companies and the rich have tax attorneys to make sure they pay the minimal amount of taxes by utilizing every loophole available....

And the subsidizing we do that's counter productive to our other goals...the coal and oil companies still get subsidized while at the same time our gov. is trying to promote alternative energy...and everyone believes the myth that it's not financially viable. Well if they stopped subsidizing the dirty stuff alt. energy would prove viable now and over time instead of just over time....most of our PV systems have payoff's in 8-10 years, the solar water heating proves profitable in 2-4 years, mine has already paid itself off and now I get free heated water every day, except for heavy rain days....

 

[vortrit]

And this is something new?

 

[Dark Geared God]

I think your high the tea party doesn't want to do away with SS or medicare...
there is an easier way....people need to take control of their own life..thats all i'm saying on this

 

[LAM]

Nixon took the US off the gold standard in the early 70's because the US ran up big debts from the Vietnam war and countries wanted to collect. this was pretty much the beginning of the end when the Federal Government removed the credit limits from itself, the average middle-class US consumer followed suite and started the trend of living beyond their means and not planing financially for the future.

 

[Zaphod]

Every time I mention anything like this the freaks all come unglued.

 

[Big Smoothy]

It could be because billion dollar companies are robbing the U.S. Treasury blind
One of the reasons you and I and other ordinary American citizens are taxed so much and still live in a country with a huge Federal deficit is because multi-billion dollar American corporations are taxed so little.

The writer of this blog has made an error.

And, a BIG error.

He/she is confusing the National Debt, with the annual budget deficits.

Both are related closely, but different.

The writer should either note the current annual budget deficit, or deficits combined, or the National Debt.

Yes, many corporations avoid taxes. The system seems set up for this.

But as for the national debt - it's a spending problem - period.

Think it's bad now? It is.

But just wait until the Baby Boomer hit medicare......

 

[danzik17]

60 billion is a lot of money, but our deficit is over 1 trillion. I think we have a *slightly* larger problem than just 60 billion.

 

[LAM]

But as for the national debt - it's a spending problem - period.

Think it's bad now? It is.

But just wait until the Baby Boomer hit medicare......

one of the biggest problems is that many US citizens are just straight up fucking retarded and ignorant about all aspects of enconmics and buy whatever bullshit the politicians say on TV. We didn't learn from Vietnam and now are re-living history with Iraq and Afghanistan. The government spending on the military is bankrupting this country and we are no safer because of it. Unfortunately other countries for whatever reasons have followed suite in the spending habits of the US Government, the US has suckered other countries into trying to "Keeping up with the Joneses".

 

[Big Smoothy]

one of the biggest problems is that many US citizens are just straight up fucking retarded and ignorant about all aspects of enconmics and buy whatever bullshit the politicians say on TV.

I agree.

And politicians don't have control over the over-economy as much as people think. At least not on the local level, and domestic level. Some policies cause certain reactions, such as tax credits, etc.

But in general, when you hear a Congressman, Senator or President talk about "creating jobs" or "helping" the economy it's B.S.

Sadly, many Americans don't understand this.

We didn't learn from Vietnam and now are re-living history with Iraq and Afghanistan.

I've lived in Vietnam for several years, and no the Americans didn't learn much of anything, be they civilian or military.

The human damage, and financial cost from VN still exists, and the Iraq and Afghanistan cost will exist for many, many, years.

The government spending on the military is bankrupting this country and we are no safer because of it. Unfortunately other countries for whatever reasons have followed suite in the spending habits of the US Government, the US has suckered other countries into trying to "Keeping up with the Joneses".

And Obama increases the Pentagon budget by 9% last year. The Military Industrial-Complex is very powerful.


Will the US get out of this mess? I have my own opinion.

But what do you forum members, think?

 

[theCaptn']

I agree. It is a jewish conspiracy, and I am apart of it.

Will the US get out of this mess? I have my own opinion.

But what do you forum members, think?

I agree with Big Smoothy . . that theiving goddam jew should be hanged!

 

[LAM]

Will the US get out of this mess? I have my own opinion.

But what do you forum members, think?

I see the US with an almost 3rd World economy in 30-40 years after the big global corporations have bleed most of the US citizens dry and the US dollar is near worthless. In 1970 when I was 2 one wage earner making 35-40k a year could buy a house, raise a family AND save some money if they were thrifty. in 2010 a college graduate in most metros can barely survive on 30K a year, so forget about comfortably raising a family and saving money with stagnate 1980's wages being paid in many job markets. people today with "good" jobs get cost of living increases to cover inflation, WTF is a raise?


sometimes I wish I didn't know what I do....my parents are selling the condo in St Croix and buying a place in Nice next year.

 

[ROID]

Everything gonna be alright

 

[Big Smoothy]

I see the US with an almost 3rd World economy in 30-40 years after the big global corporations have bleed most of the US citizens dry and the US dollar is near worthless. In 1970 when I was 2 one wage earner making 35-40k a year could buy a house, raise a family AND save some money if they were thrifty. in 2010 a college graduate in most metros can barely survive on 30K a year, so forget about comfortably raising a family and saving money with stagnate 1980's wages being paid in many job markets. people today with "good" jobs get cost of living increases to cover inflation, WTF is a raise?

You and I are on the same page LAM.

This is, indeed, what it happening.

There is a transfer of wealth - the middle class is not just shrinking slowly and steadily as it has for the past 40 years, it's now disappearing. The pace is accelerating.

I cannot believe how many American University grads are coming to Asia to teach English for a pittance.

Some have teacher's licenses in the US and cannot get teaching jobs, others are from marketing, business, you name it.

 

[lnvanry]

Its a freaking shame...Gen X and Gen Y will have it worse off then their parents.

But let's put things into global perspective here...even with the US decline is quality of life, we are still in a MUCH MUCH better position than most (if not all) the world. People talk about the upswing of China, India, etc but they have a very long long way to go still

 

[Big Smoothy]

Its a freaking shame...Gen X and Gen Y will have it worse off then their parents.

But let's put things into global perspective here...even with the US decline is quality of life, we are still in a MUCH MUCH better position than most (if not all) the world. People talk about the upswing of China, India, etc but they have a very long long way to go still

You hit on some points, Ivanry.

One major theme is: optimism.

Here in Asia, people are optimistic.

The states?

And honestly, are those in the US in a better position?

Look at the debt? Health care? Old age? Disposable income? Social situation? Lifestyle? Quality of life?

 

[Glycomann]

Three things to improve the current situation.
1. Public funding of all elections
2. Invigoration of our industrial base
3. Regular audits of the Federal Reserve Banks

The monied interests control all the nobs so the situation will never improve.

 

[Zaphod]

The system in the US is set up to benefit the few in power and those with wealth.

 

[LAM]

The monied interests control all the nobs so the situation will never improve.

yes, it is quite the conundrum...

getting to the top was to easy for the USA and falling from #1 did not take long at all.

 

[troubador]

The system in the US is set up to benefit the few in power and those with wealth.

I'd rather be 'poor' in the U.S. than middle class in most countries. We even have millions of people desperately trying to enter the country to work the lowest paid jobs. There are huge benefits to being part of the lower class U.S.

 

[LAM]

I'd rather be 'poor' in the U.S. than middle class in most countries. We even have millions of people desperately trying to enter the country to work the lowest paid jobs. There are huge benefits to being part of the lower class U.S.

most don't understand the vast difference between being poor and those in abject poverty where there is no hope in site, you are born poor and hungry and die poor and hungry along with everyone around you.

in terms of wealth right now today the poorest people in the US have more wealth than 90% of the worlds population that have ever lived before them. this is one of the things that lead our country down a path of financial ruin very rapidly, more of everything was/is never enough. being comfortable wasn't enough, we wanted it all and we wanted it now.

 

[Glycomann]

most don't understand the vast difference between being poor and those in abject poverty where there is no hope in site, you are born poor and hungry and die poor and hungry along with everyone around you.

in terms of wealth right now today the poorest people in the US have more wealth than 90% of the worlds population that have ever lived before them. this is one of the things that lead our country down a path of financial ruin very rapidly, more of everything was/is never enough. being comfortable wasn't enough, we wanted it all and we wanted it now.

great point

 

[lnvanry]

You hit on some points, Ivanry.

One major theme is: optimism.

Here in Asia, people are optimistic.

The states?

And honestly, are those in the US in a better position?

Look at the debt? Health care? Old age? Disposable income? Social situation? Lifestyle? Quality of life?

The debt for the individual isn't life threatening for the poor and lower middle class who live most of their life on a cash basis (or paycheck to paycheck)...you default on a loan (that some idiot lender gave to you in the first place) and you destroy your credit, but its no biggie when you live life on a cash basis...even if your credit is garbage. A construction company isn't going to not hire a laborer or skilled worker if they have bad credit.

health care?...yes, you won't be treated for most things, but when it comes to life or death situations you will most likely be treated and it will be with US medical resources (which is usually if FAR better than the rest of world). We lose in the health care rankings b/c if you don't have coverage and you receive a non life threatening injury or illness, you're screwed.

Old age? I don't understand what you're talking about here...we don't live as long as other?

As some one who lived and spent a great deal of time outside the US, I'd figure you'd understand this. I've worked/lived/ and visited in europe, the middle east, and africa. Especially southeast asia...would you really rather be middle class in relative perspective in Vietnam or lower class in the US? Its not a decision I'd want to make, but I'll take the US lower class. At least there is a small chance you can climb out. Its very difficult to break out of your class in most places in the world.

 

[lnvanry]

most don't understand the vast difference between being poor and those in abject poverty where there is no hope in site, you are born poor and hungry and die poor and hungry along with everyone around you.

in terms of wealth right now today the poorest people in the US have more wealth than 90% of the worlds population that have ever lived before them. this is one of the things that lead our country down a path of financial ruin very rapidly, more of everything was/is never enough. being comfortable wasn't enough, we wanted it all and we wanted it now.

Its kind of a shame...our nation is so materialistic and greedy. I'm sure each and every one of us on this board (Americans) reflect it too...at least from time2time.

 

[Big Smoothy]

Old age? I don't understand what you're talking about here...we don't live as long as other?

I should have been more specific: I am referring to lack of quality employment opportunities, medical and pharmaceutical costs, and working until people are too old physically and or mental to work anymore.

As some one who lived and spent a great deal of time outside the US, I'd figure you'd understand this.

I've lived and worked in 4 countries in Asia, Central America, Caucus region and South East Asia.

I've traveled to 30 different countries.

I've worked/lived/ and visited in europe, the middle east, and africa. Especially southeast asia...would you really rather be middle class in relative perspective in Vietnam or lower class in the US? Its not a decision I'd want to make, but I'll take the US lower class. At least there is a small chance you can climb out. Its very difficult to break out of your class in most places in the world.

That is a tough comparison. Especially in these times.

Being working class in the US brings a lesser quality of life than being middle-class in Vietnam.

VN has is changing rapidly. Many (but not most) of my students are wealthier than I am, but I should note that I'm in the capital city, which is a bubble of its own.

 

[LAM]

VN has is changing rapidly. Many (but not most) of my students are wealthier than I am, but I should note that I'm in the capital city, which is a bubble of its own.

same with China.while the average worker there makes substantial less than US workers they are also able to save 20% of their disposable income after expenses. in 1970 that rate for US workers was at an all time high of about 12%. Today in the US the % of disposable income saved after expenses is about 5% for the lucky ones.

 

[Big Smoothy]

same with China.while the average worker there makes substantial less than US workers they are also able to save 20% of their disposable income after expenses. in 1970 that rate for US workers was at an all time high of about 12%. Today in the US the % of disposable income saved after expenses is about 5% for the lucky ones.

LAM,

Spot-on.

Here in Asia, people are save-conscious.

The American "model" of save 10% has not been achieved in decades as you note, and it's not enough at all.

The US economy is propelled by over 70% by consumer spending - people buying sh*t.

Low interest rates don't encourage saving, but would Americans save anyway?

The lack of savings is another crippling element to the average American.

False Prosperity = buy cheap sh*t at wal-mart, a new sports car or pickup and get a bigger house.

Almost no one talks about how much they pay each month for the debts loans.

And nobody, in the US, has told me how much they have in the bank/investments.

 

[LAM]

LAM,

False Prosperity = buy cheap sh*t at wal-mart, a new sports car or pickup and get a bigger house.

Almost no one talks about how much they pay each month for the debts loans.

And nobody, in the US, has told me how much they have in the bank/investments.

there's no delay in gratification anymore. people just don't realize the vast impact of the Id based society that we have here in the US, it's extremely self-destructive as we are seeing.

like you stated in Asia families get educations, get the jobs, save money THEN get married, buy a house and start raising a family not the other way around.

I'm tired of the HOA were I live now so I've been looking at buying a lot and building a nice green home and have been looking at the specs. The energy costs to heat/cool homes after they get much bigger than 1,500-2,000 feet are ridiculous! People started buying homes much bigger than they needed or could afford. Most don't realize that 20' ceiling in the "great room" is eating up their retirement but making the share holders happy at the local electric company.

My sister and I were lucky with old school parents born in the late 30's. They taught us how to save, they maxed out their IRA/401K contributions every single year, paid cash for all new cars, etc. and my sister and I are the same way with mortgage debt being the only thing we carry. Parents taught us if you want something then earn more money or save to buy it, if you can't then you most likely don't need or deserve it.

 

[Zaphod]

I'd rather be 'poor' in the U.S. than middle class in most countries. We even have millions of people desperately trying to enter the country to work the lowest paid jobs. There are huge benefits to being part of the lower class U.S.

The way things are going you will be plenty poor. Rising costs, stagnant wages, job losses.

 

[danzik17]

Almost no one talks about how much they pay each month for the debts loans.

I was pre-approved for a mortgage far larger than I should have been. The banks reasoning was that my debt to income ratio extremely good, therefore I was eligible for such a loan.

Nevermind the math I did that stated I could do that......if I lived off of ramen noodles and didn't go anywhere. But hey, I'd have a house right?