Sciatic Nerve

[ponyboy]

Another good movement is called a sloppy push-up. Lie on your stomach and place your hands underneath your shoulders. Keeping your belly on the ground gently push up until you feel compression in your lower back. Hold this position, lower and repeat.

I have found that for people who are at desks all day this can help keep proper lumbar spinal alignment which is key when dealing with lower back pain.

 

[P-funk]

you mean the yoga stretch....the cobra??

 

[ubercoach]

Sleeping position, creams and other stuff...

It has been my experience that the astronaut position, enough pillows under your legs to make your back completely flat while lying supine, is a great way to relieve pressure on the nerve and allow the erectors amd other tight back muscles to relax a bit. If you can sleep like that, great, most of us can't.
So put a pillow between your legs and lay on your side...
If the sciatic nerve's involved, a combination of topical analgesic (Stopain, my recommendation) and ice (20 min on, 20 min off x 3), may help relieve some pain, but remember, once you've really irritated the sciatic, it may stay irritated for sometime even after the impingement has been relieved, so don't get too discouraged if pain persists.
Generally, sitting is one of the worst things you can do, just makes things worse.
Be extremely circumspect about any and all stretches. Self diagnoses is an imprecise science, (I know that my xray vision hasn't worked worth a damn since I turned 40). There are several things that can cause your symptoms, including disc involvement. Anything that puts pressure on the bulging portion of the disc can cause it to rupture. Quite undesirable, so be very careful and attentive to what hurts and what don't.
Unfortunately, you usually need films for a proper diagnoses of this sort of thing.

Recommended reading: http://www.dolfzine.com/page481.htm

Ubercoach

 

[AKIRA]

Applying ice and using self-myofacial release (either using a foam roller or a tennis ball)...do I want to apply these to the pain areas?

Only reason I ask, is if this nerve is being pinched elsewhere and triggering pain in my glute.

I tried a stretch that takes forever to get into due to extreme stiffness. Its called the 90-90(?) Anyway, instead of my back leg being in a 90 degree angle, I try to straighten it (but its still bent). I try lowering myself to my other 90 degree leg (which is in front of me), bringing my chest to my foot. This shit is pretty hard! Id say I have another 8 inches to go until I could touch my chest to my foot.

As far as stretching this Psoas, I never really feel it being stretched. Or maybe I do...I always feel my hamstrings, glutes, and sometimes my quads being stretched, but not so much in the lower back area.

 

[P-funk]

I don't understand the stretch you are talking about but don't try to force yourself into position. that can lead to other injuries.

why would you expect to feel your lower back when you stretch your Psoas? Also, are you sure that it is tight? Or is it weak?

You need to go to a specialist to determine these things.

 

[AKIRA]

I don't understand the stretch you are talking about but don't try to force yourself into position. that can lead to other injuries.

why would you expect to feel your lower back when you stretch your Psoas? Also, are you sure that it is tight? Or is it weak?

You need to go to a specialist to determine these things.

Well, what I mean is not necessarily my lower back, but when I want to stretch my hamstrings, I do a stretch and feel it stretch. Same goes for other muscles, but this psoas? I just dont feel anything really. I do feel other muscles being stretched, but again, theyre just the glutes and hamstrings.

If I can attach the image, I will...lets see.. (await an edit)

When I stretch, I come to a stiff point, but it goes away rather quickly then I can stretch more. I dont really force myself, it actually just happens naturally.

Yeah, i know. I am shooting in the dark here.

 

[P-funk]

do the stretch were you are taking a knee to stretch your psoas.....

like this

By punching in "psoas stretch" to google I also found this. This is actually one of the exercises that Sharmman suggests for people with lower back pain (provided that it doesn't hurt them) as a way to strengthen pelvic stability. She recommends a drawing in of the abdomen, while extending one leg out (by sliding it across the floor) slowly.

 

[AKIRA]

do the stretch were you are taking a knee to stretch your psoas.....

like this

By punching in "psoas stretch" to google I also found this. This is actually one of the exercises that Sharmman suggests for people with lower back pain (provided that it doesn't hurt them) as a way to strengthen pelvic stability. She recommends a drawing in of the abdomen, while extending one leg out (by sliding it across the floor) slowly.

Heh, I do those stretches too. I usually start out my stretching routine with the second link you provided and end with the stretch in the first link.

Now in the first link, I feel that in between my legs. This is a hip flexor stretch, no? (Psoas=hip flexor?)

The second link, however, falls into the whole "I feel it stretching my hamstrings" category. Maybe I am doing it wrong..?

 

[P-funk]

Heh, I do those stretches too. I usually start out my stretching routine with the second link you provided and end with the stretch in the first link.

Now in the first link, I feel that in between my legs. This is a hip flexor stretch, no? (Psoas=hip flexor?)

The second link, however, falls into the whole "I feel it stretching my hamstrings" category. Maybe I am doing it wrong..?

the first link is a stretch for the psoas, yes, it is a hip flexor, along with the illiacus, TFL, sartorius and rectus femoris.

The second link, if you are really tight and stiff in your psoas, you will feel it on the leg that you are extending out in front of you, that is where the stretch is happening. You are talking about feeling the hamstring on the leg you are hugging because you are pulling it into hip flexion.

Like I said....you need to determine if you are weak in the psoas or if you are tight and over active in the psoas....if you are weak and it is under active, trying to stretch it wont get you anywher....in fact it will be counterproductive, you would need to get it firing properly again.

 

[AKIRA]

the first link is a stretch for the psoas, yes, it is a hip flexor, along with the illiacus, TFL, sartorius and rectus femoris.

The second link, if you are really tight and stiff in your psoas, you will feel it on the leg that you are extending out in front of you, that is where the stretch is happening. You are talking about feeling the hamstring on the leg you are hugging because you are pulling it into hip flexion.

Like I said....you need to determine if you are weak in the psoas or if you are tight and over active in the psoas....if you are weak and it is under active, trying to stretch it wont get you anywher....in fact it will be counterproductive, you would need to get it firing properly again.

Aw hell!

Ok well how does one work the psoas?

This might sound like a newbie question, but honestly working out the psoas isnt exactly a common thread found on IM!

Ill google it now...

 

[P-funk]

for fucks sake man....I posted the article on how to test and train it a few pages back!!!

are you reading your own thread?

 

[AKIRA]

for fucks sake man....I posted the article on how to test and train it a few pages back!!!

are you reading your won thread?

Oh ok. Sorry, I got 3 web pages open, phone call, food, Family Guy, and currently holding a shit.

But thanks for a friendly reply!

 

[P-funk]

if i were watching family guy and holding a shit, I would be exhibiting the same concentration problems....no worries.

 

[AKIRA]

OK youre talking about the Mike Boyle article? I couldnt access it at work is why, but I am home now...

 

[P-funk]

OK youre talking about the Mike Boyle article? I couldnt access it at work is why, but I am home now...

well print it out and read it on the shitter....tis where I do my best thinking.

 

[Trouble]

Where is my popcorn! What a great thread! Its got its own humerous commercial breaks...

Congrats to Akira on his 1000th (a grand) post!

(I also do my best technical reconnoiter on the shitter)

 

[AKIRA]

Thanks Trouble!

Ok I tried both tests from Mr. Boyle's article...

I brought my right knee to my chest and let go. A SLIGHT drop happened, but I kept my leg above 90 degrees and held it for quite some time (15 sec with ease). My left leg was the same story (even the slight drop), but there was a cramp where my quad meets my pelvis. Wasnt too bad.

The other test, well what is a plyo box? I put my foot on a desk (above 90 degrees) then lifted it above the desk. Both legs did that just fine, no cramps.

No leaning back or forward, chest was straight up.

 

[P-funk]

no leaning back? no hip hike on the plat leg side to compensate?

the fact that you cramped could be indicative of overcompensation.

it is hard to assess yourself, hence the reason you need someone else to view you from a 3D perspective:

front
lateral
posterior

so, if you aren't weak there, then you need to know if you are tight there.....overhead squat test? you need someone to assess you.....

also, the psoas might not be your problem...it could be tightness in other hip flexors, it could be tightness in the hamstring, the erctor spinae, the thoracolumbar fascia...

all of those problems can be seen by someone who can do a functional movement screen on you and assess the problems. Again, looking at a 3D view.

Do you work with any trainers that can administer either the gray cook functional movement screen or an overhead squat and single leg squat assessment? Not just someone who can watch you do them, but, actually administer the tests.

 

[AKIRA]

no leaning back? no hip hike on the plat leg side to compensate?

the fact that you cramped could be indicative of overcompensation.

it is hard to assess yourself, hence the reason you need someone else to view you from a 3D perspective:

front
lateral
posterior

so, if you aren't weak there, then you need to know if you are tight there.....overhead squat test? you need someone to assess you.....

also, the psoas might not be your problem...it could be tightness in other hip flexors, it could be tightness in the hamstring, the erctor spinae, the thoracolumbar fascia...

all of those problems can be seen by someone who can do a functional movement screen on you and assess the problems. Again, looking at a 3D view.

Do you work with any trainers that can administer either the gray cook functional movement screen or an overhead squat and single leg squat assessment? Not just someone who can watch you do them, but, actually administer the tests.

Yeah, ive been wanting someone to do a fitness assesment on myself. Ive tried to do them ON myself, but its not good enough even with mirrors.
The trainers at Golds almost all suck...except maybe 2. Ill see if they can check me for imbalances and such. I wonder how much theyd charge for 5 min of work..?

Oh yea, tonight I was looking around for a tennis ball to 'sit' on and instead forund a softball! This hurt like a bitch on my right glute, but all my stretches were TONS easier. Even my normal pains are better..!

Then again, maybe its the Aleve..

 

[P-funk]

a softball is to hard. be careful with your fascia.....or, in the word's of Bill S. Preston Equire "Be excellent to yourself", folled by Ted Theodore Logan "Party on...Dudes"...Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure.

You have an NASM certification so you should be pretty versed in the overhead squat and single leg squat test by now and know the in's and outs of it. You have no trainer that you sit and talk shop with that can do these types of tests? Don't you work with someone that can help you out in this manner?

I can't see the trainers charging you for a movement screen.

 

[AKIRA]

It Happened!

This week I was planning on cardio and stretching. WELP. ALL GONE. I was doing the stretch where you lie on the floor in a supine position, place the left ankle over the right knee and pull the right knee to the chest. For some reason, I took my hands off my right knee and brought my knee to my chest using my right leg strength! POP! I was in pretty bad pain. I got my happy ass out of the gym and drove home.

The drive sucked. Very uncomfortable and getting out of the car...HAH. I got inside and laid back down on the floor on my back. My pain now went all the way down to my foot. I went ahead and called the chiropractor the gym recommended. I scheduled an appointment with him (he specializes in sports medicine; used to work AT the gym doing rehab and such with trainers, athletes, and patients). Getting into the car was HELL. I couldnt bend over at all and I was screaming in pain and frustration.

When I finally got there, I had to stand, not sit, as it was almost unbearable to sit in a chair. When I got in there he asked me to stand on my toes for a second. Done. Then he checked my reflexes. Theyre fine. Then he took me into a room where I lied pronated, I mean, face down where he placed ice on my lower back and muscle activators. My muscles started tingling and I remained there for 15 min.

I then went into the chiro's room and thats where he put me on that bench (face down again) and put pressure on all places of my spine while moving my legs up then down, then more down, then repeat.

When I left, I didnt feel any better and he said I wouldnt because the sciatic nerve was so inflammed that nothing was going to work. This also made it hard for him to say what exactly is wrong with me at this point since its so bad.

I didnt sleep well that night. Nothing but Advil and Hydrocodone to help.

Yesterday, the pain is almost gone, but I am limping everywhere cuz my toes and above my ankle on the outside of my shin are almost numb. Constant tingling. I can only sit in a chair for just over 1 min until it becomes unbearably annoying. At the dr. office, he did the same shit as before, only he extended my spine along with taking my legs up and down, down again.

Today I got some sleep and went back to him. Pain is almost gone, unless I raise my leg. I am still limping and I have to get up every paragraph or so just to write this.

SO! Needless to say, I know what I did wrong with the stretches and its now no longer a choice to workout AT ALL. This really sucks and I am scared that it isnt going to get better. 800mg advil 3 times a day along with some herbal shit the doc had handy. He says I am making progress but only slightly and its only been 3 days.

Hey, but at least I am at a doctor now! Oh yeah, first visit was $95. Every other day its been $50. Normal pricing?

 

[P-funk]

price sounds normal.

how agressive were you stretching yourself?

where you hurting at all before you started stretching?

 

[AKIRA]

price sounds normal.

how agressive were you stretching yourself?

where you hurting at all before you started stretching?

Hurting? Eh, some stiffness. Nothing really out of the normal.

I just really want to the numbness to go away. People are saying it will.

 

[fUnc17]

AKIRA, not to rain on your parade, but most of my pain is gone. thanks to R-E-S-T and anti-inflammitories. Today was the first day i really started stretching, foam rolled, did some core stabilizer work and reverse hypers. I feel 1000x better, everything feels nice and loose.

I found when I was resting that sitting down made the pain worse, especially in poorly designed chairs. Make sure you have good sleep posture, especially if you sleep on your sides (stick something between your knees). I basically laid on the couch with a pillow between my knees and that was it... being on the computer aggrevated the nerve more.

 

[P-funk]

AKIRA, not to rain on your parade, but most of my pain is gone. thanks to R-E-S-T and anti-inflammitories. Today was the first day i really started stretching, foam rolled, did some core stabilizer work and reverse hypers. I feel 1000x better, everything feels nice and loose.

I found when I was resting that sitting down made the pain worse, especially in poorly designed chairs. Make sure you have good sleep posture, especially if you sleep on your sides (stick something between your knees). I basically laid on the couch with a pillow between my knees and that was it... being on the computer aggrevated the nerve more.

I am glad you brought this up.

I too suffer from some back pain. Prolonged sitting makes it so much worse. I hate sitting for the most part. I find it uncomfortable and akward. I try and stand ever 15-20min and move around and stretch. I sometimes will kneel infront of the computer instead of sit as well. I sleep with a pillow between my knees if I lay on my side and a pillow under my knees if I lay on my back. If I sit on the couch or a chair with a seat back I place a small pillow behind my back also.

 

[AKIRA]

I actually have been sleeping with my foam roller under my knees on the floor.

The dr. today said that an MRI is becoming possible because of the fact that I can hardly feel my left foot. He said hes been administiring treatment for a patient that has a "bulged disc and a pinched nerve." He said teh worst case scenario is if the disc was herniated (theres a difference in definition to him), but because of the fact that hes been able to move my spine in more ways than most of his patients can leads him to believe that I am not that bad. But then again...id like to feel my fucking foot!

 

[P-funk]

I actually have been sleeping with my foam roller under my knees on the floor.

The dr. today said that an MRI is becoming possible because of the fact that I can hardly feel my left foot. He said hes been administiring treatment for a patient that has a "bulged disc and a pinched nerve." He said teh worst case scenario is if the disc was herniated (theres a difference in definition to him), but because of the fact that hes been able to move my spine in more ways than most of his patients can leads him to believe that I am not that bad. But then again...id like to feel my fucking foot!

yes, there are different levels of hernia. I posted about this a few pages back (the 4 levels).

when are you getting the MRI?

 

[fUnc17]

Have you gotten an xray yet? If not, you should do that before getting an MRI to see if you even have a herniation. MRI may not even be neccesary.

 

[AKIRA]

yes, there are different levels of hernia. I posted about this a few pages back (the 4 levels).

when are you getting the MRI?

He wants to wait until next week to see if I have progress...which I am not having really.

He said he can get me an MRI for a cash patient at around $650.

He hasnt even mentioned an xray.

 

[ponyboy]

No offense to anyone here but stretching alone isn't going to fix a problem as severe as some of the ones being described in this thread. Stretching will help alleviate symptoms but there are also some fundamental problems likely with movement patterns and exercise technique that need to be addressed.

If you have chronic pain or recurring pain, this is something that really needs to be fixed through corrective exercise and changing the way that you lift/move to make sure the problems don't recur. Just my .02 but I speak from personal experience as well as years of addressing these issues with others.