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Straps are for wusses

Forgive me for not even acknowledging the thread starter. I was speaking of max numbers. Bragging rights.

P, my knee wrap comparion is in the pudding. If you use knee wraps for safety, "extending the knee," or for looks, I dont care what the reason is, should I NOT allow myself to accept what your 1 rep max is, if you used wraps if you did it? Or should I say "ok so you squat 200lbs ( :) ) for 1 rep max with knee wraps. what can you do without the wraps?"

I am not powerlifting nor was I counting it. I dont even remember how it came about. Something about not counting a 1 rep max of a particuliar deadlift cuz they dont allow them in powerlifting. I dont know nor care. If I did, then I guess my squat numbers dont count either, cuz Im not squatting Olympic style. :rolleyes:

Bottom line, if someone can max at 500lbs on a deadlift with straps, I say thats their damn max!
If the same fucker has develops perfect grip and doesnt need straps, but gets the same max deadlift of 500lbs, again, its his max!
 
AKIRA said:
Forgive me for not even acknowledging the thread starter. I was speaking of max numbers. Bragging rights.

P, my knee wrap comparion is in the pudding. If you use knee wraps for safety, "extending the knee," or for looks, I dont care what the reason is, should I NOT allow myself to accept what your 1 rep max is, if you used wraps if you did it? Or should I say "ok so you squat 200lbs ( :) ) for 1 rep max with knee wraps. what can you do without the wraps?"

I am not powerlifting nor was I counting it. I dont even remember how it came about. Something about not counting a 1 rep max of a particuliar deadlift cuz they dont allow them in powerlifting. I dont know nor care. If I did then I guess my squat numbers dont count either cuz I may not be squatting Olympic style. :rolleyes:

Bottom line, if someone can max at 500lbs on a deadlift with straps, I say thats their damn max!
If the same fucker has develops perfect grip and doesnt need straps, but gets the same max deadlift of 500lbs, again, its his max!
Click to expand...



Knee wraps are performance enhancing. they do not protect the knees and infact they do just the oppisite, driving the patellar backwards into the joint. So lets get that out of the way.

Yes, if you are not powerlifting, then go ahead and use wraps. If you read my initial post, I said that I am all for them if your sole purpose is athletic conditioning (and lets throw in there hypertrophy).

But, I would not count that as your TRUE 1 repetition max. The only thing I would count is what you can do without a "crutch". What can you deadlift with your bare hands......What can you squat raw....etc.....
 
If you can deadlift 500 pounds with or without straps, it's impressive. Who cares what anyone else thinks? The guy who started this thread tried to instigate a verbal fight by implying anyone using straps is a "wuss" - although I doubt he could deadlift anything near 500 pounds with crane assistance.

As far as powerlifting is concerned, it's a different story. Powerlifting is a sport, and including a strapped deadlift with a competition would be like allowing a forward lateral on a kick-off. It breaks the rules.
 
P-funk said:
Knee wraps are performance enhancing. they do not protect the knees and infact they do just the oppisite, driving the patellar backwards into the joint. So lets get that out of the way.



But, I would not count that as your TRUE 1 repetition max. The only thing I would count is what you can do without a "crutch". What can you deadlift with your bare hands......What can you squat raw....etc.....
Click to expand...

That makes sense gauging strength from an athletic training aspect(too a point) because you are handling resistance with no gear what so ever, like in a game or something.
 
fufu said:
That makes sense gauging strength from an athletic training aspect(too a point) because you are handling resistance with no gear what so ever, like in a game or something.
Click to expand...

Yes, but there is no motion in a sport (minus powerlifting) resembling a deadlift, so the analogy doesn't really work.

What it would suggest is that you won't be able to grab onto, for example, a running back playing football as well because your grip is weaker.

However, grip can be trained seperately. Why would someone be willing to throw away the most optimized benefits from an exercise (the deadlift) by limiting the weight you can use for the hamstrings, lats, etc. in eliminating straps. Train your grip with the deadlift if you can, but if your forearms can't keep up, use those straps!!
 
Duncans Donuts said:
Yes, but there is no motion in a sport (minus powerlifting) resembling a deadlift, so the analogy doesn't really work.

What it would suggest is that you won't be able to grab onto, for example, a running back playing football as well because your grip is weaker.

However, grip can be trained seperately. Why would someone be willing to throw away the most optimized benefits from an exercise (the deadlift) by limiting the weight you can use for the hamstrings, lats, etc. in eliminating straps. Train your grip with the deadlift if you can, but if your forearms can't keep up, use those straps!!
Click to expand...

I knew you'd be on this post, that's why I added that "to a point" in parenthesis, heh.

I was speaking in general terms of resistance exercise(any resistance exercise) gauged to athletic strength. You have yourself and some clothes to accomplish work, that's it. I do agree wholeheartedly that there are scenarios in which something like straps or even weight belts can be utilized. I listed one of them in my original thread post.
 
Ok, I did 405lbs X 1 deadlift, without straps today, can I be on the none "wussie" list now....Please?????


Got it up then almost dropped it on the floor, but set it down nice just prior to that.
 
AKIRA said:
Even if I tied the barbell to my wrists and used NO grip strength, if I go through a full range of motion of a conventional deadlift, I am going to count it. Theres just so much more at play during a deadlift other than grip.
Click to expand...

Ever hear of the expression "A team is only as strong as it's weakest link?"

That applies here 100%.

You said it yourself, there are more things at play than just grip strength, unfortunately, it's at play as well. I would be lying to myself and everyone else if I said my deadlift was 480 lbs, considering I can only pull 420 or so without straps.
 
I think straps are fine if they aren't a crutch. Don't use them unnecessarily. My grip is pretty strong, but I still find it limiting me on rare occasions. For example, right now I'm doing some slow tempo stuff, and my grip just falls apart on certain lifts. Try doing RDLs with a 3 second negative and a 2 second pause in the bottom position. Tell me if your hands aren't harder to operate after that.

Of course, I'm still not using straps, I'm just saying I understand why people do.
 
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I dont use straps, and never plan on it. Granted, I also don't plan on deadlifting 400 lbs. Ever.

That being said, straps are a lifting aid, something unnatural to assist in performance. While not entirely the same, it's somewhat on the same level as a person using a pull-up machine with 30 lbs taken off saying they crushed 20 pullups. Again, not really the same thing, but kinda sorta almost somewhat maybe along the same lines.

I'm not going to hate on someone who uses straps, especially since it rarely interferes with my workout; to each their own. But I feel it's a crutch, especially for anyone lifting a normal amount of weight. Work the hands a little bit, make them sore, and make them stronger.
 
Pianomahnn said:
I dont use straps, and never plan on it. Granted, I also don't plan on deadlifting 400 lbs. Ever.

That being said, straps are a lifting aid, something unnatural to assist in performance. While not entirely the same, it's somewhat on the same level as a person using a pull-up machine with 30 lbs taken off saying they crushed 20 pullups. Again, not really the same thing, but kinda sorta almost somewhat maybe along the same lines.

I'm not going to hate on someone who uses straps, especially since it rarely interferes with my workout; to each their own. But I feel it's a crutch, especially for anyone lifting a normal amount of weight. Work the hands a little bit, make them sore, and make them stronger.
Click to expand...

For pulling a "normal" amount of weight I would agree. I use them so other parts of my body can be adequately trained. I never pull for max lifts anymore but when I pull 365 x 6-10 I need them and it doesn't concern me one bit.
 
largepkg said:
For pulling a "normal" amount of weight I would agree. I use them so other parts of my body can be adequately trained. I never pull for max lifts anymore but when I pull 365 x 6-10 I need them and it doesn't concern me one bit.
Click to expand...

But those numbers dont count or so thats what some may have you believe. :rolleyes:
 
Okay, comparing assisted pullups (where the agonist is being relieved of tension by the machine) to a deadlift with strap assists is stretching it at the least.
In fact the straps are used to engage the prime mover (hamstring complex, back) with MORE weight, while the function of the assisted pull-up is literally the oppsoite, to relieve tension from the prime mover (lats).
 
Duncans Donuts said:
Okay, comparing assisted pullups (where the agonist is being relieved of tension by the machine) to a deadlift with strap assists is stretching it at the least.
In fact the straps are used to engage the prime mover (hamstring complex, back) with MORE weight, while the function of the assisted pull-up is literally the oppsoite, to relieve tension from the prime mover (lats).
Click to expand...

That was my whole argument. Of course, thats an interesting point with the lats, in fact, ive never noticed it.
 
Mudge said:
We live in an age where people use their hands so much they sometimes have to use various "pussy devices" to help save them from further damage due to RMI or carpel tunnel.

I used to think the same thing, but now I can say proudly, I'm a pussy and I love straps for CERTAIN lifts. I do not use them all the time.
Click to expand...

AfuckingMEN!

I had lost 60% of the strenght in my right hand, regained a lot, however my back is indeed much stronger than this right hand will ever be. db rows with 85-90 pounds kills my hand after 3-4 reps :mad: straps (or hooks at times, if Id rather not have forearms worked as much) enable me to get to 8-10 reps or however far the muscle will take me.

I must admit that air Lat carriers just like those who wear gloves during cardio, make me LMAO!:roflmao:
 
AKIRA said:
But those numbers dont count or so thats what some may have you believe. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

They count, that is your deadlift with straps, which is higher than your deadlift without. :)
 
I used to use straps quite often, especially during back workouts, shrugs, and deadlifts. I started to think of them as a crutch and thought they were limiting my grip strength. I decided to ditch the straps. My lifts suffered for a while, but I've since gotten that weight back and then some. I have not used straps now in over a year.

I don't really care either way if I see someone else using them. Whatever makes them happy.
 
I look at it this way...

If someone were to ask me what my vertical was, I wouldn't tell them what it was jumping on a trampoline.

If someone asked me how fast I could run a mile, I wouldn't give them my time running downhill.

Now, does that mean you shouldn't use straps? Nope, it just means that I don't consider assisted lifts whether it be by a partner or with straps, wraps, etc.
 
What's not to understand?
 
Dale Mabry said:
I look at it this way...

If someone were to ask me what my vertical was, I wouldn't tell them what it was jumping on a trampoline.

If someone asked me how fast I could run a mile, I wouldn't give them my time running downhill.

Now, does that mean you shouldn't use straps? Nope, it just means that I don't consider assisted lifts whether it be by a partner or with straps, wraps, etc.
Click to expand...

Straps allow you to load your body with a weight that is more demanding for the primary muscles. Running downhill is less demanding than running uphill, as is jumping on a trampoline less demanding than jumping without. Straps make everything more demanding except for the weakest link.

In other words, you have to work harder for better results with straps in a deadlift with the EXCEPTION of the forearms, and when sprinting downhill you have to work less hard for better results.

I would not however consider a downhill quarter mile time or a trampoline vertical jump. That's pretty silly. And it may not make sense to consider a deadlift wit straps as a "max" - but it's certainly more reasonable to consider a deadlift with straps than to consider a vertical jump on a trampoline. :thinking:
 
Duncans Donuts said:
In other words, you have to work harder for better results with straps in a deadlift with the EXCEPTION of the forearms, and when sprinting downhill you have to work less hard for better results.

You should be able to attain a greater speed sprinting downhill, so one could make an argument that maintaining balance at a faster speed would challenge your vestibular system more. Regardless, both situations would challenge one ability or system more at the expense of another.

I would not however consider a downhill quarter mile time or a trampoline vertical jump. That's pretty silly. And it may not make sense to consider a deadlift wit straps as a "max" - but it's certainly more reasonable to consider a deadlift with straps than to consider a vertical jump on a trampoline. :thinking:
Click to expand...


I agree, I wouldn't consider either. I look at it like this, if we were in the middle of nowhere and my "deadlift" max is 600 and something 600lbs fell on you, you better hope that 600lbs is without straps. :)
 
Most of the professional arm-wrestlers like to do wet towel squeezes with variance in the grip for grip strength.
 
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