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free our health care now
- Thread starter ZECH
- Start date
so this nationalized health care reform, would this mean I no longer have to pay out the ass for my insurance and prescriptions and maybe I will actually be able to use it?
our current health insurance sucks, we pay $200/month (family coverage) and have a $2400 annual deductible, so unless one of has surgery we pay 100% for everything all year, i.e. doctor visits, prescriptions, etc.
our current health insurance sucks, we pay $200/month (family coverage) and have a $2400 annual deductible, so unless one of has surgery we pay 100% for everything all year, i.e. doctor visits, prescriptions, etc.
and die waiting six+ months for a surgery you could have gotten immediately as of now. Or contract a disease that the government deems not worth the monetary risk of treating... let them make your personal medical decisions for you.
seriously... the government can't do anything right & people want them in charge of our health care? WTF?
How is all of that not already happening with the insurance companies? Once you are no longer profitable this is precisely what happens
Do you really trust the insurance companies any more?
I want to add that one of the reasons companies go overseas is because of health care, again I keep talking about my old Company Motorola, the rising cost of health care was one of the reasons they decided to sub-contract us.
Then once we were sub-contracted the new management would lay off those who used their medical plan too often.
Then once we were sub-contracted the new management would lay off those who used their medical plan too often.
I would like to hear or read a single first person account of how someone waited 6 months for healthcare or was refused service from a nationalized healthcare. This is often one of the primary reasons people cite against nationalized healthcare. Find 1 person who is currently getting nationalized healthcare that would rather be here getting what we currently get. There has to be millions in England alone. Find one person that finds our way to be better that is actually from a nationalized healthcare providing nation, and not just a conservative talking head.
I am a proponet of fixing what is broken, and our healthcare system is broken!
We have a healthcare system that claims to cover “everything,” then conducts most of its rationing by coercing doctors to act against the best interests of their patients. Under some kind of national plan, at least some of the rationing decisions will be made away from the bedside,and will be less destructive of the doctor-patient relationship. ( Right now when insurances don't want to cover a procedure or test or medicine they blame us, even though we have spent hours on the phone providing clinical information, faxed office notes, provided all the ICD-9 codes etc.) We have not had a free market in medicine during my career. Our current medical insurance industry runs current rationing, and patients have no real role in making informed cost-effective decisions.
as for efficiency, I only have to hire one person to deal with medicare and medicaid billing, and an army ( full benefits mind you) to deal with the private insurance paperwork ( precerts and prior authorizations, coding, collections, )
By the way, not a single medicare or medicaid patient has to "wait" to get elective surgery, I schedule them with the first available surgical spot. Many of the private insurers demand a swath of paperwork to "prove" why elective cholecystectomy is needed with a person's gallstone, or why neurosurgery is needed for a grade 4 spondylysis with loss of reflexes and bowel incontinance... and it can take weeks or over a month.
as for efficiency, I only have to hire one person to deal with medicare and medicaid billing, and an army ( full benefits mind you) to deal with the private insurance paperwork ( precerts and prior authorizations, coding, collections, )
By the way, not a single medicare or medicaid patient has to "wait" to get elective surgery, I schedule them with the first available surgical spot. Many of the private insurers demand a swath of paperwork to "prove" why elective cholecystectomy is needed with a person's gallstone, or why neurosurgery is needed for a grade 4 spondylysis with loss of reflexes and bowel incontinance... and it can take weeks or over a month.
There was some data recently released, maybe Bandaidwoman has it, where we ranked something like 15th in terms of health care system performance. How is that good when we spend the most money?
Yes, I know they compare things like infant mortality but ther is a caveat. Not to diminsh the accomplishment of other countries very real problem we have here......but let me tell you how statistics can be skewed to make the statistics such as how US infant mortality look bad and why it is not a good measure of health care in the UnitedStates.
The United States easily has the most intensive system of emergency intervention to keep low birth weight and premature infants alive in the world.
The US is only one of a handful countries that keeps detailed statistics on early fetal mortality -- the survival rate of infants who are born as early as the 20th week of gestation.
"
Thus, in the United States if an infant is born weighing only 400 grams and not breathing, a doctor will likely spend lot of time and money trying to revive that infant. If the infant does not survive -- and the mortality rate for such infants is in excess of 50 percent -- that sequence of events will be recorded as a live birth and then a death. In many countries (including many European countries) such severe medical intervention would not be attempted this would recorded as a fetal death rather than a live birth. That unfortunate infant would never show up in infant mortality statistics!!! "
The above paraphrased from medical site discussion board.
Take Cuba (which has a better infant mortality)..... they do not register births under 1000g. In fact, this is precisely what the World Health Organization itself recommends that for official record keeping purposes, only live births of greater than 1,000g should be included. But guess what, we do!
Cuba looks better than the united states but in fact what is probably true is that the United States takes far more serious (and expensive) interventions among extremely low birth weight and extremely premature infants than Cuba (or much of the rest of the world for that matter) does.
The above are probably confounding variables along with decreased prenatal care in the poor of course
In summary, I would not use our infant mortality data to show what a sucky job we are doing compared to the rest of the world. Data that show how countries with national health insurance kicks our butt in terms of managing chronic, long term diseases would have more solid ground to stand on in my book.
The United States easily has the most intensive system of emergency intervention to keep low birth weight and premature infants alive in the world.
The US is only one of a handful countries that keeps detailed statistics on early fetal mortality -- the survival rate of infants who are born as early as the 20th week of gestation.
"
Thus, in the United States if an infant is born weighing only 400 grams and not breathing, a doctor will likely spend lot of time and money trying to revive that infant. If the infant does not survive -- and the mortality rate for such infants is in excess of 50 percent -- that sequence of events will be recorded as a live birth and then a death. In many countries (including many European countries) such severe medical intervention would not be attempted this would recorded as a fetal death rather than a live birth. That unfortunate infant would never show up in infant mortality statistics!!! "
The above paraphrased from medical site discussion board.
Take Cuba (which has a better infant mortality)..... they do not register births under 1000g. In fact, this is precisely what the World Health Organization itself recommends that for official record keeping purposes, only live births of greater than 1,000g should be included. But guess what, we do!
Cuba looks better than the united states but in fact what is probably true is that the United States takes far more serious (and expensive) interventions among extremely low birth weight and extremely premature infants than Cuba (or much of the rest of the world for that matter) does.
The above are probably confounding variables along with decreased prenatal care in the poor of course
In summary, I would not use our infant mortality data to show what a sucky job we are doing compared to the rest of the world. Data that show how countries with national health insurance kicks our butt in terms of managing chronic, long term diseases would have more solid ground to stand on in my book.
I thought that was what it was discussing, QoL of disabled people, disease treatment outcome, etc. I think it was done in 2000, though,it was around when I started at Penn.
Are these politicians really looking out for YOUR BEST INTEREST?!
Put Single Payer Health Care On The Table Now
Put Single Payer Health Care On The Table Now
Don't politicians get a huge amount of money from them already?
Me thinks these crooks will lose a lot of money if there is any type of reform.
I live in Canada and I will go in on Monday next week for the 4th MRI in the last few years.
I had to wait three days for the first one, a few months for the second one (I told them I could wait that long, it wasn't acute), about a month for the third one (also an old injury and thus not acute) and two weeks for this one (doc sped it up because it's a follow-up for a nerve conduction test).
Not one of them cost me a dime out of pocket. Neither do checkups, follow up appointments to see my GP or any specialist, x-rays, or blood tests. If I want to switch to a different GP or request a particular specialist, I do. I've had emergency surgery for my appendix, an ovarian cyst, and a broken arm. All covered by my national health plan.
You'll have to pry socialized medicine out of my cold dead hand. And because getting regular checkups and excellent health care is a luxury I'm afforded through socialized medicine, you may have to wait a long time to do that prying - I fully intend to make it to a hundred.
My .02 CDN.
I had to wait three days for the first one, a few months for the second one (I told them I could wait that long, it wasn't acute), about a month for the third one (also an old injury and thus not acute) and two weeks for this one (doc sped it up because it's a follow-up for a nerve conduction test).
Not one of them cost me a dime out of pocket. Neither do checkups, follow up appointments to see my GP or any specialist, x-rays, or blood tests. If I want to switch to a different GP or request a particular specialist, I do. I've had emergency surgery for my appendix, an ovarian cyst, and a broken arm. All covered by my national health plan.
You'll have to pry socialized medicine out of my cold dead hand. And because getting regular checkups and excellent health care is a luxury I'm afforded through socialized medicine, you may have to wait a long time to do that prying - I fully intend to make it to a hundred.
My .02 CDN.
Oh my, how do you live with that kind of coverage? I'm surprised with all of that horrible coverage that you are still alive.
The WHO uses infant mortality and life expectancy as the major gauges of world ranking which is why I commented on it.
The upshot is that if I have a heart attack, statistically I have a better outcome if I am treated in America vs Canada, however, if I have diabetes and high cholesterol etc, Canada does a better job than us preventing the complications ( such as a the heart attack).
False, companies move overseas for one reason only, the corporate tax rate, nothing else factors in to the equation.
My grandfather who lives in Canada came to the US for his open heart surgery and paid cash for it because of Canada's free national health care
This is truly atrocious!
Business as usual, greed and malfeasance always seems to prevail. Will this trend ever be reversed!?
I moved to the US from Canada partially because of the taxes. I don't get healthcare from my employer. It is much cheaper to just buy my own healthcare than it is to pay the extra taxes.
How much was that? Again, I am looking for an experience. Was it because he had to wait so long? Why did he come here instead of staying there?
I have lived in both the US and Canada. I had an MRI in the US. I made the appointment and was in the next day. I had broken bones in Canada and they handled that well. I was hospitalized in the US for 3 days with pnemonia. I have also watched as a close friend of mines child went through leukemia treatments over the last year.
There are some issues in the US but they aren't about the treatment or the fact it isn't paid for by the government. They are about the business practices of the insurance companies and the fact that this country is completely sue happy over any little thing.
Given the differences I would much rather pay my $200 a month in healthcare than have GST (national sales tax) and a higher tax bracket. Not to mention all the taxes on things like beer, tobacco, gas. People in the US think their's is expensive. Go live in Canada for a while.
Oh, I can also write off my mortgage interest on my taxes... you can't do that in Canada.
After paying my healthcare in the US, I am saving at least $1500 a month living here compared to Canada. And Canada only spends a fraction (percentage wise) of what the US does on the military.
Where do you think all this Canadian tax money goes?
So, what are the primary issues, in your opinion, on the business issues from the insurance companies?
I'm not sure how much it cost but yes, he came here because he could get in the same week rather than wait three months that he had to wait in Canada. He wasn't taking any chances.
That certainly qualifies, IMO.
As someone that has to pay for my insurance (my company doesn't provide it), I am subject to whatever plan I am on going up every year.
I find a plan for $200 a month and then the next year it goes up about $50 a month. Than trend continues indefinitely. So after a year or two on a plan I have to seek out another plan that starts over at $200 a month.
Here's the catch. If I ever got sick, no other insurance company would pick me up and I would be stuck with the rising costs of my insurance plan. Before long, I would be paying $500+ a month for insurance.
If your company doesn't provide insurance and you pay it out yourself, don't get any serious illness.
I don't think it is right that companies can deny you insurance based on your health history or that there is a lifetime max that they will pay out. I realize that this keeps the cost down for others but it is discriminitory against people that happen to get ill.
This problem doesn't happen with group plans you get from companies though.
I also think there is a lot of red tape and waste that happens with the insurance companies here but there is in Canada too. I am not really an expert on this and I don't have the answers.
I remember growing up in Canada. My dad's girlfriend was a nurse and she would often complain about the bed closings even though everything was full, the strikes and all the other BS that happened there.
Personally, with my direct experiences with dealing with hospitals in both countries, I have been completely satisfied. It's just been much cheaper for me here in the US... but I haven't been ill for any length of time either
I have been working full time since I was 20 years old. I always have had health insurance. If I need to go to the doctors I pay a co-pay. Usually between 10 - 20$. 20 - 40$ for a specialist. I can get a doctors appointment the same day I call. I can get an MRI scheduled within a week. I just started to have to pay out of my pocket for health insurance. It costs me 68$/month for my whole family to be covered. Not to bad. My buddy has to pay 150$ or so. If I went freelance or started my own business then thats where you pay out the nose. I understand this is an issue but it hasn't really affected me personally yet. Other then having to pay for benefits. Again the major issues that everyone complains about have not yet hindered me. The only way they will is me having to pay more taxes. I don't mean to sound pompous, I'm just stating my point as a middle classian. I do care about this country and think something needs to happen with the health care system. I'm just afraid its going to be me that has to pay.
Dale to answer your question:
When I was up at Dartmouth Hitchcock Medical center( in New Hampshire) we had some canadians seek health care at our facility for care that they otherwise would have had to wait or denied.
At the same time, I've had Blue Cross deny repairing a torn achilles tendon in an athlete of mine so he flew to India to have it done. Another private insurer refused to cover cancer treatment to a 42 year old with cutaneous T cell lymphoma that was newly diagnosed by myself ( so I got her on medicare medicaid by getting her to quit her job and has had continuous, lifesaving treatment for the last ten years), another patient needed a bone marrow transplant which would have provided a cure for her type of leukemia, her insurance would not pay since she had met her lifetime usage of one million ( she had had lymphoma when she was in her twenties and needed treatment over the years that cured her but gobbled up her private insurance maximum usage) so I had her put her assets in a trusting ex husband's name and put her on medicaid which paid for the treatment, she is now leukemia and lymphoma free
Both sides of the equation ration care, but in the latter, the private insurers give a pretense that they will take care of you as long as premiums are paid in.....
When I was up at Dartmouth Hitchcock Medical center( in New Hampshire) we had some canadians seek health care at our facility for care that they otherwise would have had to wait or denied.
At the same time, I've had Blue Cross deny repairing a torn achilles tendon in an athlete of mine so he flew to India to have it done. Another private insurer refused to cover cancer treatment to a 42 year old with cutaneous T cell lymphoma that was newly diagnosed by myself ( so I got her on medicare medicaid by getting her to quit her job and has had continuous, lifesaving treatment for the last ten years), another patient needed a bone marrow transplant which would have provided a cure for her type of leukemia, her insurance would not pay since she had met her lifetime usage of one million ( she had had lymphoma when she was in her twenties and needed treatment over the years that cured her but gobbled up her private insurance maximum usage) so I had her put her assets in a trusting ex husband's name and put her on medicaid which paid for the treatment, she is now leukemia and lymphoma free
Both sides of the equation ration care, but in the latter, the private insurers give a pretense that they will take care of you as long as premiums are paid in.....
I like the low cost healthcare I get in the US... at the same time I like the fact I am a Canadian citizen and I know that if I ever became seriously ill and my medical bills started to get out of control here, I could run back to Canada and have them look after me
