my next door neighbor just purchased an $85,000 dollar mercedes but bemoans the fact that she can't afford to pay for private school for her kids........talk about f'd up priorities.
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Health Care Bill
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LOL, dont you just love people like that?
Hey, you gotta have your priorities straight, right?
I did not know that. What is his handle here?
On a side note, I agree most businesses will probably drop health insurance and let employees fend for themselves. I really cant blame them because for most it is the bottom line that matters and for some this could break them. It is also true what BAW says, that good benefits helps retain good employees. Over the next 5 years, you will probably see employees struggle to get with good companies that will provide good health insurance. That will leave many employers looking for whatever they can find to fill job openings.
Meatheadsam, his is a card toting NRA, die hard republican, southern baptist married to an athiest, feminist liberal. We have a very happy marriage because we respect each others intelligence and beliefs.
That is very interesting. Sounds like a great guy to me. Does he hunt?
of course, deer, when our daughter is old enough he is going to start taking her hunting and learn to use guns.
wow, that is really interesting. I'm not built that way. If I ever marry she's got to think like me
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But just for the record: Because this isn't going to hurt YOU, doesn't make it right, right?
My houshold income is close to yours. But that's because I spent 23 years in the Air Force and am now drawing that retirement. While I was in I also worked a part time job. My wife went to school and also worked a job. We sacrificed, scrimped, saved and did everything we could so that after I retired from the A.F. we could start enjoying the things we weren't able to afford while I was in. Now that I'm out, we both have very good jobs and we're in the position we worked for. But, this bunch of assholes comes along and says, "Thanks for all your hard work and sacrifice. We're going to take your hard earned $$$ from you and give it to these other shit eating assholes who WE think deserve it more." All because we make more than some arbitrary figure they pulled out of thier asses.
But just for the record: Because this isn't going to hurt YOU, doesn't make it right, right?
My houshold income is close to yours. But that's because I spent 23 years in the Air Force and am now drawing that retirement. While I was in I also worked a part time job. My wife went to school and also worked a job. We sacrificed, scrimped, saved and did everything we could so that after I retired from the A.F. we could start enjoying the things we weren't able to afford while I was in. Now that I'm out, we both have very good jobs and we're in the position we worked for. But, this bunch of assholes comes along and says, "Thanks for all your hard work and sacrifice. We're going to take your hard earned $$$ from you and give it to these other shit eating assholes who WE think deserve it more." All because we make more than some arbitrary figure they pulled out of thier asses.
No, I hated this bill but it won't affect me much at all come tax time ,that is all. Now my partners and my neighbors who live quite well.... , a different story. I am a member of pnhp who also hated the bill.
wow, that is really interesting. I'm not built that way. If I ever marry she's got to think like me
It can be very boring when the two of you agree on everything, but that is my opinion
But just for the record: Because this isn't going to hurt YOU, doesn't make it right, right?
My houshold income is close to yours. But that's because I spent 23 years in the Air Force and am now drawing that retirement. While I was in I also worked a part time job. My wife went to school and also worked a job. We sacrificed, scrimped, saved and did everything we could so that after I retired from the A.F. we could start enjoying the things we weren't able to afford while I was in. Now that I'm out, we both have very good jobs and we're in the position we worked for. But, this bunch of assholes comes along and says, "Thanks for all your hard work and sacrifice. We're going to take your hard earned $$$ from you and give it to these other shit eating assholes who WE think deserve it more." All because we make more than some arbitrary figure they pulled out of thier asses.
Now this is what I don't get. 90% of your tax dollars is probably going to some form of gov't waste, but the 1 cent of every dollar that goes to this program is significantly impacting your way of life? I get that you don't want to pay for it, but I don't want 50 cents of every tax dollar that comes from me to go to the military. Honestly, I think we could get by with 30 cents out of every dollar, or 40. That is an arbitrary figure, but you get the point. The money our gov't wastes is atrocious. I have a friend who was active duty for 3 years prior to 9/11, he averaged about 100 days of work a year but got paid a full years salary for 3 years until the war broke out and he actually had to work a full working week. Look at Palin, when she was gov of Alaska she was flying her kids around the country on the Alaskan taxpayers dollar to events they had no business going to. Sure it sounds small, but if all 50 governors, 100 senators, and 435 congressmen do this in as many capacities as they are able to do it, it adds up. This doesn't even account for pork-laden bills they pass every year. IMO, getting you riled up about handouts keeps the heat off of them. Stop worrying about the crumbs they throw the peons and hold your representatives, regardless of party, responsible for their actions as it pertains to how they spend your tax dollars. This is one of the primary issues with the 2 party system that is ruining this country, people only hold politicians from the other party responsible for their actions as it pertains to legislature that they don't agree with, but people from their own party can do no wrong. If you were looking to invest your money in a company that wanted to provide healthcare to employees, you would probably see this as a positive, but if the executives at the company wanted to fly their family from coast to coast on the company dime for non-company business, you would look elsewhere. How are the people running this country not held to the same standard?
Way to go, Bandaidwoman.
I've always been curious about why Americans (of many different income levels) choose to go into massive amounts of debt for house and cars, etc.
Those with high debts now, are falling off of cliffs.
This slowdown in wiping them out.
Albob,
excuse my ignorance.
I thought a bill ALWAYS went to the House first, and then had to go to the Senate.
Why is this different?
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This WOULD be a great post if it weren't based on a faulty assumption. What on Earth makes you think I'm not rip roaring mad at ALL the government waste there is? This piece of shit law is merely the latest in a looooong list of travesties foisted upon us by our friendly neighborhood gubmint. And no, I'm NOT a blind follower of ANY party. Yes, I'm a registered Republican but, I was right there screaming with everybody else when the last Commander in Checkbook was spending our grandchildren's money like a drunken sailor. I disagree that the two party SYSTEM is flawed. But I do believe the two current parties are flawed. I'm working to take back my party so that they WILL be held to the same standard you mentioned.
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You tell me. The Senate got thier 60 vote super majority, then it went to the House and they schemed, lied, threatened and bribed to get thier 219 and then Bam Bam signed it. Beats the Hell out of me how it happened. Now it's back in the Senate to be "fixed" and the Repubs are still saying they've got a chance to derail it. Huh?
I just want to state at the beginning that this is directed to the party followers as a whole, not just our ancient friend here. Let's look at some numbers...
Cost of Iraq war-$975 billion over 7 years and rising
Benefit to US Taxpayer-Zero
Cost of Health Care-Projected to be $940 Billion over 10 years
Benefit to US Taxpayer-At least 1
How many people on the right have you heard complain about the cost of healthcare since it's inception 4 days ago?
Now, how many people on the right have you heard complain about the Iraq war since it started 7 years ago?
I think my point is pretty clear, but I'll elaborate...If you have complained about healthcare but not the Iraq War, or the ratio of your outrage is any worse than 1:1, it is obvious party loyalty is more important to you than what is best for this country.
I agree that the bill is flawed, and it is unjust that the rich are taxed any more than anyone else, but come on, any person with a grade school education can see that the outrage is misplaced.
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First and foremost I agree that they are both gigantic clusterfucks. No argument there.
Where I will disagree with you is when you try to pass off your opinion as fact. To say the Iraq war has been a total waste with zero benefit to the U.S. is opinion, not fact. I'll go so far as to say it hasn't been worth the amount of $$$ spent but, I don't think it was a total waste. Also, the cost of the health bill is still up for discussion. Depending on which economic "expert" you ask, the cost ranges from $940 Billion to almost $2 Trillion. Is it worth it? Only time will tell. Lastly, to say agreeing with one and disagreeing with the other is pure party loyalty is absurd. There are any number of reasons a person could agree with one and not the other. Myself for example, my opinions are based on my beliefs of right and wrong. Party affiliation has NOTHING to do with those beliefs. As a matter of fact, it's the other way around, my beliefs are what steer me towards one party over the other.
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Spending money that we don't have is alright because some other idiot spent money we don't have. They is not how you balance a budget.
Also, there are costs beyond the just the dollars spent. Take the War in Iraq. That has cost over 3,000 American lives. The health care bill, which has no provision for denying illegal aliens access to the system, will cause a deluge of Mexicans into America, and it's clear that such a deluge has country-wide negative effects.
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Holy SHIT! DOMS, you're a genius. You finally found something GOOD about the Death Panels. Now we have a way to take care of that damn immigration problem.
Well right now I am treating illegal aliens for free in the hospital, 70% of my hospital billable services have been unpaid this year. A small majority is due to the uninsured ( both illegal and legal) but a majority is due to "underinsured" , people who have high deductibles, with this economy the last thing they are going to pay is the doctor who spent 2 hours in the ICU with them at midnight saving their asses, they need to use the 800 dollars to pay their mortgage. At least the percentage of uninsured will change but the underinsured will not ( the insurance exchange will provide skimpy, high deductibles plans to most , trust me).. They are grateful for my services, but not enough to compromise their car or house payments, and honestly, I can't blame them. I'd like to see another profession provide 70% services for free and still be liable as much as we hospitalists are. ( This is why many doctors are refusing to be on call at the hospital anymore leaving the few of us that do, holding the bag)
But let me tell you something, the hispanics are very contrite and they try to pay their bills ( maybe only five dollars a week) but they seem to make the effort. Therefore, I don't send as many of them collections ( maybe they figure I will report them if I send collection agencies after them , who knows.) It's amazing how many of the american uninsured tell my office manager to go to hell. She has no problems sending their accounts to collections.
But let me tell you something, the hispanics are very contrite and they try to pay their bills ( maybe only five dollars a week) but they seem to make the effort. Therefore, I don't send as many of them collections ( maybe they figure I will report them if I send collection agencies after them , who knows.) It's amazing how many of the american uninsured tell my office manager to go to hell. She has no problems sending their accounts to collections.
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Of course...
They're not white or American, so they're nice...and helpful...and only do good things...and bring unicorns with them.
Fuck that. I've seen with my own eyes what they do to American civilization. I've seen it happen in three states.
Your Chinese, so you have a vested interest in believing that non-Americans aren't bad, to the point of defending them all, but your wanting to believe doesn't trump reality.
not defending them just telling the reality that they at least try to show a concerted effort to pay me and not take my sweat and labor for granted like many uninsured. I'm sure its to play nice so I don't report them although they don't realize doctors are not law enforcement personell, we just want to take care of you and hope you don't die and sue us.
Honestly the worst are the medicaid patients, they feel paying their two dollar copay is way too much to see a good doctor but drop 5 dollars for a pack of cigarettes. My office manager is ruthless, she takes their pack of cigarettes away as copayment if they don;t have the decency to pay their two dollar copays, You would be amazed at how many people cough it up. The two dollars means nothing to me but it's the principle of the thing, she is telling them not to take us for granted ( especially since many docs won't even see medicaid patients.)
Honestly the worst are the medicaid patients, they feel paying their two dollar copay is way too much to see a good doctor but drop 5 dollars for a pack of cigarettes. My office manager is ruthless, she takes their pack of cigarettes away as copayment if they don;t have the decency to pay their two dollar copays, You would be amazed at how many people cough it up. The two dollars means nothing to me but it's the principle of the thing, she is telling them not to take us for granted ( especially since many docs won't even see medicaid patients.)
Name me one Direct benefit to the American taxpayer.
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Nope, not going down that road. Been there, done that, it's a waste of time. You have your opinion, I have mine and neither one of us is going to change the other's. Just accept the fact that you and I are different people with different experiences and therefore, we form different opinions on things. Deal?
you cannot name one benefit because there are none, just the bullshit lies that the war is securing the homeland and eradicating terrorism, both are false.
DOMS,
I assume you are correct in this, about illegals having a right to care under this bill.
But I must ask is this a fact?
I need clarification. If true, this is one more reason why this is bad.
Also, if Illegals are "denied" under the program, they probably will find a way or loophole, like in the British NI (national insurance) system.
The British NI system was set up to exclude illegals, but they are in it.
Once established, these sytems have loopholes, are changed, and adapt.
Illegal immigrants are already eligible for emergency care through the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act, signed by President Reagan in 1986. This emergency care is often paid for by Emergency Medicaid, private insurance if the patients have it, out-of-pocket, or it's written off as bad debt or charity care by the hospital.
I think the reform bill can tax an illegal if they don't purchase insurance yet they can't purchase through the insurance exchange plans without proof of legal status , however, the reform bill may expand medicaid so that it includes illegals....in the end it will probably be a wash. We already pay for them anyway since EMTLA was shoved down hospital's throats. I may be wrong but that was the gist I got.
I think the reform bill can tax an illegal if they don't purchase insurance yet they can't purchase through the insurance exchange plans without proof of legal status , however, the reform bill may expand medicaid so that it includes illegals....in the end it will probably be a wash. We already pay for them anyway since EMTLA was shoved down hospital's throats. I may be wrong but that was the gist I got.
A lot of people are just saying the lamest things.You guys act like this is the end all.whatever you believe about the bill. Alot of the taxes and mandates dont hit for a couple of years. Is the bill perfect,no.Instead of bitching and complaining,do something about it...what i mean is,there is still time to make this bill better.it does have a lot of goodies for people starting this year. If people as a nation ,stand up and work on their congressman or senator.we can make it better.And about the illegals,lame again.When americans start going through a little pain,they ALWAYS blame the illegals.Put down your violin,and handle your bussiness.the illegals Have been going back for a couple of years now.As soon as they seen the work going,they went too.Even the ones that have been in the U.S. a long time.When people cry and talk stuff,make sure its the right stuff.Do some research.Just like some people in these forums tell others.and oh yeah,i haven't heard anyone say it,but the house did past the antitrust exemption.If it passes the senate that would help the bill to be a little bit better.But i haven't heard anyone talk about that.Not on these forums or the media.How about some people put some pressure on their reps,to pass that.Or if people care about financial reform,how about putting some pressure on your reps to make it better and pass it.Unless you want future bailouts on the banks and wallstreet.All I'm saying whether your left or right or in the middle,we got a lot of work to do.If you want something to be better,you got to do something about it. I personally think campaign reform, and shortning their terms ,would make them do their jobs.Just my 2 cents.
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