need some advice guys!

[nutta]

hi, i recently felt i had overtrained/overeached, i felt larthargic, lost some strength and plateaued

i took a couple of days off 4 to be precise, strated a new program, lowered volume and added an extra rest day, although for some body parts i am only 2/ 3 weeks into my program a few other body parts are a month into my program and i have not seen a real noticabal difference other then i do not feel demotivated or larthargic and that my strength has gone up in a few exersises. i feel its not the program thats the problem as i have based a program from peoples advice on this board, but rather that i probaly need more rest from the previous program that wore me out so i am going to take a week off

my question is that should i start a new program when i come back after the week or should i stick with the one i have now, its just that i have heard changing your program too often will result in counterproductive gains as muscle groups need to adapt to the program and progressively overload etc?

thanks

 

[nutta]

also before you ask my diet is spot on

 

[Gazhole]

If you still don't feel 100%, take more time off. A whole week is generally a good rule of thumb. Just start this program again if you're happy with it.

 

[nutta]

thanks for the quick reply

i would like to add maybe one or two more exerises into my program but wnt that kinda go against the whole idea of being consistant and changing things making gains counterproductive as tghe muscle needs to adapt to the exersise etc or am i just chating shit lol

 

[nutta]

although tbh maybe it would be best to change up my routine, i am relatively happy with it but i could make it better and swap the sceme from pyrimiding down to pyrimiding up or in your opinion would it be best to keep it consistant to progresivley overload and add one or to different exersises

 

[natural1]

thanks for the quick reply

i would like to add maybe one or two more exerises into my program but wnt that kinda go against the whole idea of being consistant and changing things making gains counterproductive as tghe muscle needs to adapt to the exersise etc or am i just chating shit lol

As long as your doing Your major lifts, like DL and squats etc then varying your accesory movements shouldent be a problem

 

[nutta]

tbh i did not feel that tired while i was training so i do not no why i am still plateaueing,,maybe i did not take a full week off and that caused some problems or maybe it was the program

so purhaps i shud start a new one with all your advice:

Monday_ chest
4 sets of bench press, 6, 8,10,12 reps
4 sets of inlince BB press, 6_8 reps
2 dumbell declines 6_8reps
2 sets of dumbell flys 6_8 reps

tuesday_ back and biceps
Pullups
deads (have heard 5x5 is good but is his rep range mainly for strength not size?
4 sets of laterial pulldown 6_8reps
Barbell bentover rows 6,6,8,8,10,12

3 EZ barbell curls 6_8 reps
2 sets of preacher curls 6_8reps

wednesday _rest

thrusday_ shoulders and triceps

dumbell seated shoulder press 6,8,8, 10 ,12
3 standing laterial raises 6_8 reps
2 seated laterial raises 6_8 reps

4 sets of BB narrow grip 6,8,10,12 reps
2 sets of weighted bench dips 6_8 rep range

friday legs

basicly need some big help hear i want to squat and use the leg press so yur help on seeting up a routine for me would be appreciated and other advice about my routine would also be appreciated

 

[nutta]

also if there any specific resting time for 5x5 as i was planning on resting 2 to 3 minutes on all sets and would you think i wuld benifit more from training shoulders and tris on monday legs on tuesday, chest on thursday and back and bis on friday/

 

[theCaptn']

Day 1: legs and shoulders

Day 2: off

Day 3 chest and Bis

Day 4: back and Tris

Day 5: Off

Day 6: Shoulders, abs and Cardio

Day 7: off

 

[nutta]

i realy do not thinks its a good idea to train shoulders twice and tris the day after chest i aint on roids lol

 

[returnofthdragon]

I've never felt the need for time off and never hit plateaus while I'm working out. I have had periods where I don't work out, and fall off the wagon. This usually due to tearing or breaking something or having a screaming newborn....so I do get some time off. I've gone for over a year with no time off other than 1-2 days a week without a prolem. I think this is because when I design I program, I do it on a rotation. I have a 4-5 workouts and rotate between them so I really don't do the same thing twice in a month for my core lifts. For my auxiliary lifts there is change, but not as much. In some programs this is a weekly plan, but currently it's more like a 10 day rotation. I don't think this is because I'm special, I believe it works. I've done it with countless athletes and had great success, but they always get time off just due to scheduling.

With all that being said, if you needed a break, I think it's going to need to be longer than 4 days.

 

[nutta]

indeed thats why im taking 9 days off, so can anyone help me with my routine and muscle group day selection?

 

[returnofthdragon]

indeed thats why im taking 9 days off, so can anyone help me with my routine and muscle group day selection?

Lots of good info in the stickies. Here's a good one Guide To Designing A Routine the "Bodybuilder ??? Undulating Periodization" looks a lot like what I do periodization wise, but I use A-E. When trying to figure out what do to on what day, don't limit your self by days of the week. What if monday is your squat day and all hell breaks loose that day and you don't get to the gym, do you skip squat? Do you push everything back? Instead of planning by day, I just plan in order. Day 1-7 is what I currently use. I'm not going 7 days in a row, so it takes me more than a week to get through 1-7. Does that make any sense?

 

[nutta]

yh it does kinda all a it confusing realy i mean i have been doing reserach and have based my routine around compound exercises as the sticky says erm

other then that i think i just need some advice on the routine i have currently made

Monday_ chest
4 sets of bench press, 6, 8,10,12 reps
4 sets of inlince BB press, 6_8 reps
2 dumbell declines 6_8reps
2 sets of dumbell flys 6_8 reps

tuesday_ back and biceps
Pullups
6 deads 6,8,8,10, 10 12 reps
4 sets of laterial pulldown 6_8reps
5 sets of Barbell bentover rows ,6,8,8,10,12

3 EZ barbell curls 6_8 reps
2 sets of preacher curls 10 _ 12 reps

wednesday _rest

thrusday_ shoulders and triceps

dumbell seated shoulder press 6,8,8, 10 ,12
3 standing laterial raises 6_8 reps
2 sets of one arm leaning laterial raises 12 to 15 reps

4 sets of BB narrow grip 6,8,10,12 reps
2 sets of reverse one arm or normal cable pushdowns 12 reps ( is it okay to use this isolation exersise as i find it quite hard to pump blood into the tricep area)

friday legs
5 sets of squats 6,8,8,10,12 reps
5 sets of leg press at 6_8 reps
is there a need of a isolation exercise like still leged deadlift or sould should i just add another 2 sets of squats as the deadlift on the back day would hit the hams hard

other then that can anyone suggest anything else to imporve my routine

thanks

 

[gtbmed]

Those rep ranges make no sense. What are your goals?

 

[nutta]

erm i want to bulk up, well for my main compound exercises i want to pyirimid up, like the bench press deadlifts, bentover rows squats and deads, and for other exersises i want to to hit them at the 6 to 8 rep range apart from 3 isloation exersises like the preacher curl, leaning laterial raises and cable pushdowns at a slightly higher rep range to get a good pump, what do i need to do to make it make right then

 

[gtbmed]

First, you need to understand that getting a good pump has nothing to do with the quality of results derived from a workout.

Second, stick to 6 rep sets for your compound lifts instead of pyramiding. Pyramiding makes no sense and is just some ridiculous gimmick. Doing 3 sets of 6 reps with about 75% of your 1 rep max (this weight is basically your 10 rep max) will do more for you.

Read this thread: http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/training/113873-selecting-proper-rep-ranges-your-program.html

For simple exercises like shrugs, curls, or leg press, feel free to do more reps.

BTW, your routine isn't adequate IMO. There's too much shoulder work in there and overall too much pressing.

 

[nutta]

i appreciate your help thanks for telling me my routine is shite lol, other wise i wuda started this, i looked at what you sent its all a bit confusing

i no its probaly hassle but can i you make a routine for me loooooool, but i wud feel a lot more confident with training with a program that I know someone who clearly noes what they are talking about

i like to train tris with shoulders as well

i no im being cheeky but well id rather be a cheeky cunt then a fool who wastes his time in the gym

 

[gtbmed]

Sure

How long have you been lifting and do you know your 1 rep max, 5 rep max, 8 rep max, or 10 rep max in squats, deadlifts, military presses, chinups/pullups, and rows?

I'm thinking Bill Starr's 5x5 would work great for you. It's a fullbody routine and it's very challenging if you've been doing a split routine for awhile. Plus, it puts you in a great rep range to build muscle but also sets you up to gain a lot of strength.

 

[nutta]

erm tbh i would say i probaly have only been training properly for a couple of months as before for about 6 months i was not reaaly training correctly my technique was awfull and my instructure based a program pretty much on all isolations, but believe me when i tell you im so passionate about body building, some of my mates think im wat to obsessed buti love it, i have a near emaculate diet stoped drinking based my whole life on body building

erm for bench press my 1 rep max would be 75
sory not to sure about any other 1 rep maxes, I know i should no but the oppertunity to try them out has not really ever come up, sory i cant help

but for deads i can do 60 for 10 reps with strict form
squats i can do 60 for 10 reps
not to sure about bentover rows
and im shit with chinups can only do 5

and not to keen on military presses i need to strengthern my core more before i attempt to do it with strict form, i tend to arch my back alot i prefer seated dumbell shoulder presses and for triceps i like to use the narrow grip BB press as the staple of a tricep workout

sory i cant give you 1 rep maxes and so on but your help is much appreciated so fore the routine.... you recomend 5x5 is that only for the compound exersices? and what about isolation exersises? how wud this routine look? chhers again

 

[gtbmed]

Okay, looks like you should probably be doing Starting Strength instead at your level of experience. It is very similar and the routine is very simple:

Workout A:
Squats 3x5
Bench press 3x5
Deadlift 1x5

Workout B:
Squats 3x5
Overhead press 3x5
Power cleans or chinups 5x3

You alternate these workouts and do them every-other day. So on Monday you'd do A, Wednesday do B, Friday A, Sunday B, etc.

When you are completing all the reps for an exercise easily, add 5lbs. for the next workout.

Eat a lot of food and rest a lot.

You can add 1-2 exercises to the end of each workout if you want. So if you want to do direct arm work, add BB curls and cable pushdowns to workout A. I'd recommend adding back extensions or hyper extensions to workout B along with some hanging leg raises.

 

[nutta]

cheers man thanks for your advice but dont take this the wrong way because you have taken time to help me out but i realy want to bulk up rather then strenght train

could my routine look like this

monday_ chest
bench press 5x5
incline bench press 5x5
2 sets of flys 10 to 12 reps

tuesday_ back and bis and traps
as many chin ups as i can
Deads 5x5
Bentover rows 5x5
3 sets of bicep curls 6 _8 reps
2 sets of preacher curls 10_12 reps
3 sets of shrugs 10_ 12 reps

wednesday_ rest

thursday _shoulders and tris
5x5 on seated shoulder press
3 sets of seated dumbell laterial raises 10_12 reps
5x5 BB close grip bench press
2 sets of cable pushdowns at 12 to 15 reps ( is this to much to add?)

friday_ legs
squats 5x5
leg press 5 sets at 12 to 15 reps
should i add 2 sets of stiff leged deadlifts at say 12 to 15 reps

i would train 3 times a week but i realy do not like training shoulders or tris after chest it just is a killer i cant perform properly or is 3 days a week a neccessity

is this to much volume?

 

[gtbmed]

You are going to bulk up no matter what. Eat the calories, do Starting Strength, and get big and strong. At your current level of experience a split routine is pointless and makes no sense.

Plenty of people have gotten both huge and strong on Starting Strength.

 

[nutta]

okay cheers man

 

[returnofthdragon]

GTB has some good info for you here. I like the split routine much better. Try both do the one that feels best for you. GTB has sound reasons on why he thinks his routine would work for you. Pyramids are not a gimmick. At least high rep-low isn't. I do not understand going low rep to high at all. I hate math and thinking about rep maxes, % blah, blah, blah. Done properly they are great, but I don't like them. They remind me of one too many cookie cutter high school strength coaches I've met. When training for size and strength I like failure. Lots and lots of failure. People I've trained have always built strength quickly with failure. Instead of doing math, I do as much weight as I can almost get the # of reps I want. If I get it too easy, I add more weight the next set. If I find failure before I finish my sets, I lower the weight so I can just barely get the the weight for the next set.


Something about health and fitness. There are 1,000 opinions about everything and they are all right and wrong. Everyone is different and and the same things don't work for everyone. That being said you will run into countless people that believe they have all the answers and that everything they say is flawless. Those are usually the least knowledgeable ones.

 

[gtbmed]

How do you think pyramiding weight should be used?

I don't really like going to failure. I think it's best to leave a bit in the tank every time. Too much failure is just impossible for me to sustain over a long period of time. Plus, the quality of each rep when you approach failure is absolutely horrible. Just my personal experience.

I consider pyramiding a gimmick because I don't see any reason why it would be more effective than doing straight sets. I don't see anything special about it. I agree that pyramiding down can be effective when you are warming up to a heavy weight. That's how I do my warmups.

The entire point is, this stuff has been studied. If you want to build strength, 6 rep sets are the most you should do and no more is necessary. Anything more than 6 reps of a complex lift like squats, bench press, overhead press, chinups, deadlifts, etc. will result in a compromise in form and won't be that productive. I think you can use more than 6 reps for isolation stuff that is simple and easy to perform like curls.

Lyle McDonald also recommends 5-8 reps at about 85% of your max for most lifts for hypertrophy.

 

[nutta]

sorry to ask again but after more reaseach i found it in general most people would not recomend squatting hard twice a week and say its going to lead to overtraining, not that im questioning you or anything but i would like to do a 4 dy split based on the routine above but obsiously with changes that guys on here wud recomend

monday_ chest
bench press 5x5
incline bench press 5x5
2 sets of flys 10 to 12 reps

tuesday_ back and bis and traps
as many chin ups as i can
Deads 5x5
Bentover rows 5x5
3 sets of bicep curls 6 _8 reps
2 sets of preacher curls 10_12 reps
3 sets of shrugs 10_ 12 reps

wednesday_ rest

thursday _shoulders and tris
5x5 on seated shoulder press
3 sets of seated dumbell laterial raises 10_12 reps
5x5 BB close grip bench press
2 sets of cable pushdowns at 12 to 15 reps ( is this to much to add? i would like to add these last two sets to help me gain a good pump)

friday_ legs
squats 5x5
leg press 3 sets at 12 to 15 reps
2 sets of stiff leged deadlifts 12 to 15 reps
2 sets of leg extensions 12 to 15 reps

can i use this routine, and should i change the 5x5 on incline bench press as it would be to much stress and volume to 3 sets of 10 _12 reps, or would it be okay to carry on training with 5x5

thanks