military press all around delt builder?

[mofo]

as the title suggests im thinking of using the military press is my routine, but have read up that it hits the front delt much more then the middle, and having practiced it i can see why as you push more outward.

since the front gets hit on a chest day anyway would the shoulders not get hit better either seated or standing with dumbell presses? obsiously theres behind the neck military press but have heard that can damage your shoulders...

 

[theCaptn']

military press is a compound movement, should be part of any mass-building routine

 

[mofo]

but then again is a shoulder press with a dumbell not a compound movement, and can it not hit the middle part of the shoulder more effectively then military ,if the military press was the ultimate shoulder builder then why the need for behind the neck shoulder press?

 

[Gazhole]

Military press is more important than bench IMO.

With proper form it should utilize the entire shoulder complex in some capacity, traps too. Press it off your chest, and as you lock it out overhead bring your head through so its directly over your head rather than slightly in front. Should always lower it back down to touch aswell.

This will stop you leaning back, allow you to be a lot more stable in the lockout, and ultimately protect your lower back a little. Probably takes the anterior delts out of it a little due to the reduction in leaning back.

But yeah, military should be a staple. Much more total body activation than seated, and you can generally go heavier than with dumbells just because of the nature of using a bar.

Single arm standing dumbell press with your feet together is a great accessory for military.

 

[Gazhole]

but then again is a shoulder press with a dumbell not a compound movement, and can it not hit the middle part of the shoulder more effectively then military ,if the military press was the ultimate shoulder builder then why the need for behind the neck shoulder press?

Thats like saying why the need for incline or flys or pec deck. There probably ISN'T any need for them, but when has that ever stopped people from doing shit thats superfluous, useless, or dangerous?

 

[mofo]

very true, have heard behind the neck press fuks up you shoulders

 

[MDR]

Military press is more important than bench IMO.

With proper form it should utilize the entire shoulder complex in some capacity, traps too. Press it off your chest, and as you lock it out overhead bring your head through so its directly over your head rather than slightly in front. Should always lower it back down to touch aswell.

This will stop you leaning back, allow you to be a lot more stable in the lockout, and ultimately protect your lower back a little. Probably takes the anterior delts out of it a little due to the reduction in leaning back.

But yeah, military should be a staple. Much more total body activation than seated, and you can generally go heavier than with dumbells just because of the nature of using a bar.




I agree. After years of focusing mostly on the push press, I find it much more difficult to perform a standing military press. The main problem with the push press is by bringing the legs into the mix, you take away from the upper body work of a traditional Military press. I suppose you could argue that by performing the movement with far more weight, you can balance this a bit, but I enjoy the challenge of trying to remove the lower body from the movement as much as possible. I see a lot of people attempt this lift in the gym, and the failure to bring the head through and lock the weight out directly overhead is a very common error in form.

 

[cshea2]

Yah you need the military press, ever since I switched from seated press to standing it has helped my shoulders, bench, and my abs a good deal. Before I would go fairly heavy with the dumbells or barbell seated and then 3 days later i think my bench suffered a little bit.

Now, I don't use nearly as much weight with the OH press, so my shoulders are fresh for the bench press, And I'm getting better development in my shoulders as it's a much tougher exercise with all the stabilization

 

[dsc123]

Do you use your legs to help push or do you keep them straight?

 

[HialeahChico305]

but then again is a shoulder press with a dumbell not a compound movement, and can it not hit the middle part of the shoulder more effectively then military ,if the military press was the ultimate shoulder builder then why the need for behind the neck shoulder press?

behind the neck shoulder press is very dangerous. Heavy dumbell military press with good form is a compound movement and just as good (if not better) then military press with the barbell. Not only are you pressing but also you need good balance to keep the dumbells going up and down at proper speed/form. Much tougher exercise with great benefits on your shoulders if done properly.

 

[unclem]

i always incorporate shoulder presses in all shoulder work. i do seated front shoulder presses with a bb not db but at times i use both together. i think like gazz its a great exercise for upper body. do it on days you dont do chest. i only train one bp a wk. iam starting to listen to the powerlifters as far as movements but ill always train my arms all wk. on days there supposed to be trained. but i think if i incorporate some of phineas, gaz, mtbmed, flathead, with there strength movements i might grow more.

 

[Phineas]

From a bodybuilding standpoint, military press -- and remember that's a standing overhead press, and that's the only way to perform it (seated is called shoulder press) -- probably isn't the best lift for strict delt development. The reason for this is because being in a standing position with your legs together gives you significantly less leverage than when seated; now your back, legs, hips, and core are forced to coordinate to properly press the weight overhead. It's a completely different experience from the much simpler shoulder press. Also, note the difference in ROM between the two exercises. Often in shoulder press with barbells it's awkward to bring the bar to your chest, because your torso is in a fixed position and can't bend back to allow bar movement. However, in military press you bring the bar down to your chest, pause, and then press dead weight.

So, while shoulder press and isolations may be more useful in terms of strict delt muscle development -- though not by much -- military press is superior to those exercises for strength and power. Even if you could care less about how much weight you can lift, the stronger and more powerful you are (strength being slower, controlled muscular effort and power being fast, explosive bouts) the more weight you can move on all exercises -- which will help you build larger muscles faster.

Bearing that in mind, this is why even for bodybuilders it's very useful to train with a blend of powerlifting and conventional bodybuilding. I follow a hierarchy for training, and note that I like to blend powerlifting with "bodybuilding" (quotes because the bodybuilding element to my training isn't as obvious):

(1.) Major full-body power-oriented compounds: squats, deadlifts, bench, military press, rows, pullups/chinups, cleans

(2.) Accessory free-weight compounds: shoulder press, DB bench rows, lunges, cable pull-throughs

(3.) Machine compounds: pulldowns, seated row, etc

(4.) Isolation

Let's say you follow a 4-day push/pull split, ala Baby Got Back. In the case of that program, which I'm currently following, you have a vertical push/pull day. In simpler terms it's shoulder work and vertical back work, so pullups, chinups, pulldowns, etc. There's also room for accessory exercises for each plane of motion. You're allowed to add optional 3 x 12-15 work for anything you like. I chose to keep everything even at two exercises per plane of motion, but if you wanted extra delt work there's nothing wrong with a well-placed isolation after good compound work. Here's an example workout for vertical push/pull (this isn't mine):

Push: Military Press: 5 x 5
Pull: Pullups: 5 x 5
Push: Corner Press: or DB Shoulder Press: 3 x 8
Pull: V-Bar Chinups: 3 x 8
(accessory)
*front raises: 3 x 15
*calves
*abs

There's a workout that blends powerlifting, conventional bodybuilding, and good old fashioned strength training.

 

[MDR]

From a bodybuilding standpoint, military press -- and remember that's a standing overhead press, and that's the only way to perform it (seated is called shoulder press) -- probably isn't the best lift for strict delt development. The reason for this is because being in a standing position with your legs together gives you significantly less leverage than when seated; now your back, legs, hips, and core are forced to coordinate to properly press the weight overhead. It's a completely different experience from the much simpler shoulder press. Also, note the difference in ROM between the two exercises. Often in shoulder press with barbells it's awkward to bring the bar to your chest, because your torso is in a fixed position and can't bend back to allow bar movement. However, in military press you bring the bar down to your chest, pause, and then press dead weight.

So, while shoulder press and isolations may be more useful in terms of strict delt muscle development -- though not by much -- military press is superior to those exercises for strength and power. Even if you could care less about how much weight you can lift, the stronger and more powerful you are (strength being slower, controlled muscular effort and power being fast, explosive bouts) the more weight you can move on all exercises -- which will help you build larger muscles faster.

Bearing that in mind, this is why even for bodybuilders it's very useful to train with a blend of powerlifting and conventional bodybuilding. I follow a hierarchy for training, and note that I like to blend powerlifting with "bodybuilding" (quotes because the bodybuilding element to my training isn't as obvious):

(1.) Major full-body power-oriented compounds: squats, deadlifts, bench, military press, rows, pullups/chinups, cleans

(2.) Accessory free-weight compounds: shoulder press, DB bench rows, lunges, cable pull-throughs

(3.) Machine compounds: pulldowns, seated row, etc

(4.) Isolation

Let's say you follow a 4-day push/pull split, ala Baby Got Back. In the case of that program, which I'm currently following, you have a vertical push/pull day. In simpler terms it's shoulder work and vertical back work, so pullups, chinups, pulldowns, etc. There's also room for accessory exercises for each plane of motion. You're allowed to add optional 3 x 12-15 work for anything you like. I chose to keep everything even at two exercises per plane of motion, but if you wanted extra delt work there's nothing wrong with a well-placed isolation after good compound work. Here's an example workout for vertical push/pull (this isn't mine):

Push: Military Press: 5 x 5
Pull: Pullups: 5 x 5
Push: Corner Press: or DB Shoulder Press: 3 x 8
Pull: V-Bar Chinups: 3 x 8
(accessory)
*front raises: 3 x 15
*calves
*abs

There's a workout that blends powerlifting, conventional bodybuilding, and good old fashioned strength training.

Amen

 

[unclem]

^^^^MDR, i was talking to phineas and if i incorporate the powerlifting ways i might be able to add more muscle, since i have muscle to gain since i havent used those muscles before, which, makes alot of sense but still train arms. i thought i trained so long that was it until he said that. so ill pm u with some stuff. as u want pro to. and we both trained for decades.

 

[Flathead]

i always incorporate shoulder presses in all shoulder work. i do seated front shoulder presses with a bb not db but at times i use both together. i think like gazz its a great exercise for upper body. do it on days you dont do chest. i only train one bp a wk. iam starting to listen to the powerlifters as far as movements but ill always train my arms all wk. on days there supposed to be trained. but i think if i incorporate some of phineas, gaz, mtbmed, flathead, with there strength movements i might grow more.

Don't sell yourself short, you're a 6'1" 290lb freight train! So you must be doing something right!!! Guys like you, MDR, & juggernaut have the Bodybuilding stuff dialed in.

With that being said there's no replacement for "Heavy" Standing Military Presses! Too me it's the ultimate upper-body compound movement.

 

[twarrior]

Thats like saying why the need for incline or flys or pec deck. There probably ISN'T any need for them, but when has that ever stopped people from doing shit thats superfluous, useless, or dangerous?

It's a shame nobody told Dorian Yates that his use of inclines or flyes were superfluous, useless and dangerous. He sure wasted a lot of time...

Bodybuilding.com Videos - Dorian Yates' Blood & Guts Trainer: Chest & Biceps

 

[GearsMcGilf]

DB Incline flies are the shizzle. They're anything but superfluous. Gasshole prolly has the chest of a 10 year old boy. And yes, the standing mil press is prolly the king of all shoulder exercises as the squat is for thighs. Just STFU and do it.

 

[cshea2]

Theres nothing wrong with flies man... I think he is just saying if you want to get a huge bench you absolutely do not need flies. Notice I said bench not chest...

 

[juggernaut]

I love how the core gets hit when properly executing a military press.

 

[Gazhole]

It's a shame nobody told Dorian Yates that his use of inclines or flyes were superfluous, useless and dangerous. He sure wasted a lot of time...

Bodybuilding.com Videos - Dorian Yates' Blood & Guts Trainer: Chest & Biceps

Its a shame nobody told you Dorian Yates was on enough roids to make an army massive, and had multiple shoulder injuries from flat bench that made it necessary for him to do something else with less shoulder risk.

And yeah, flys are superfluous. Pec deck is useless. Too much pressing is dangerous from an injury prevention standpoint.

 

[Gazhole]

DB Incline flies are the shizzle. They're anything but superfluous. Gasshole prolly has the chest of a 10 year old boy. And yes, the standing mil press is prolly the king of all shoulder exercises as the squat is for thighs. Just STFU and do it.

I do actually. Just need some feet and a fresh brain and my creation is complete.

Igor, hit the post button.

 

[juggernaut]

DB Incline flies are the shizzle. They're anything but superfluous. Gasshole prolly has the chest of a 10 year old boy. And yes, the standing mil press is prolly the king of all shoulder exercises as the squat is for thighs. Just STFU and do it.

Lay off the brospeech Gears Mcjerkoff. Go back to bbing.com...nobody really gives two shits about your opinion. I might have but your just do it attitude is very retarded.

 

[tyciol]

I was under the impression this move focused on the anterior deltoid, along with using the upper/lower traps and serratus anterior to upwardly rotate the scapulae.

I imagine the medial deltoid also contributes a good deal, but I have trouble imagining the posterior fibers of the deltoid doing much in the military press.

Does anyone think differently? The shoulder's always been confusing to me and perhaps I'm overlooking a way in which the posterior deltoid would be aiding in this movement.

 

[gymforlife]

dnt forget that the rear delts git hit heavy on back days, with deadlifts bentover rows etc, so you could argue the issue with military presses not hitting the rear delts as no need for concern

 

[tyciol]

Eh, isn't shoulder extension in the deadlift more done with the lats? I thought the posterior delt only did most of that when it was hyperextending behind the spine since past that point the lats actually provide flexion.

Bentover rows would be good for those who bring the elbows behind themselves or who are doing transverse extension since that hits it.

 

[charlieDxtreme]

Military press is the best.

 

[gtbmed]

I think I like push presses a bit more but I agree with most here that they are a great exercise.

I still think, like tyciol, that you should balance it out with some pulling movement to work the rear delts.

 

[stronger4ever]

very true, have heard behind the neck press fuks up you shoulders

Big time!