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The unions already agreed to double their contributions to their pensions and healthcare. Walker insists that he can't pass his budget without killing the union.

I can't help be draw a comparison between the union "giving" money to the members and that Arab country (I forget which) "giving" money to its people to stop them from throwing them off.
 
I'm not saying that businesses don't pull crap, but the need for unions to defend the worker is gone. There have been many laws created to protect the worker that didn't exist when unions were created. It was the lack of these laws that necessitated the creation of unions.

Now unions are more of a drain than anything.

I understand what you're saying....but as Union members we are both loyal.
Nothing is perfect but so far I have been treated well by the union, I can't say that about the private sector.

I might add that if anyone went to any agency and complained they were treated like crap and a liability.
 
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I understand what you're saying....but as Union members we both loyal.
Nothing is perfect but so far I have been treated well by the union, I can't say that about the private sector.

I might add that if anyone went to any agency and complained they were treated like crap and a liability.

Like I said, if you're benefiting from a union, unions are going to look great.

You can report anonymously.
 
unions are the last american workers that can fight for various workers rights, once you fall under the "corporate law" it's a whole different ball game..

you know what's sweet...is working for a company which hasn't given you an actual pay increase in 5 years and you have to fight every year just to get a cost of living increase to cover inflation. and food, gas and every other utility is costing more every year. and you live in a right to work state so ou can't say shit to your corporate employer for fear of being fired on the spot, and there aren't any other jobs available...it's fucking awesome!
 
unions are the last american workers that can fight for various workers rights, once you fall under the "corporate law" it's a whole different ball game..

you know what's sweet...is working for a company which hasn't given you an actual pay increase in 5 years and you have to fight every year just to get a cost of living increase to cover inflation. and food, gas and every other utility is costing more every year. and you live in a right to work state so ou can't say shit to your corporate employer for fear of being fired on the spot, and there aren't any other jobs available...it's fucking awesome!

We were supposed to get a raise at least once a year....yeah right, people went years without one.
 
We were supposed to get a raise at least once a year....yeah right, people went years without one.

only those in the top management positions get actual pay raises and bonuses these days...all while stock prices and revenues continue to increase for most big companies.

a lot of people that weren't in financial trouble are going to be in the next couple of years as wages remain stagnant. this will cause home ownership to continue to decrease even further.
 
apparently i'm the only one who's read the bill.....(and some of you are getting your "facts" from msnbc which is not trustworthy like Fox is).....

the bill doesn't kill unions, it actually excludes firefighters and police from losing their collective bargaining rights.....the collective bargaining he's asking is only from other state workers so that next year they can't come back and ask for their concessions back which will put us right back into the same problems that wisconsin and other states have from these bloated entitlement programs.....the tax cuts Walker gave were definitely necessary to try to bring jobs back to wisconsin who's been hurt almost as much as michigan was with the auto industry.......the state is actually in a 3billion dollar budget deficit....the 137million is a drop in the bucket.....

the teachers are guilty of fraud for calling in sick to protest....they should be fired immediately.....

currently in wisconsin if a company has a union, you are "forced" to join to be considered permanent and not a temp worker.....that's the big part of the bill that people keep ignoring.....Wisconsin is one of the only states that it's mandatory....that's what Walker wants to do away with.....you should have a choice and not be forced to pay union fees

unions did good 50 years ago......it's no coincidence that union numbers across the nation have plummeted over the last 30 years......the general public sees that they are no longer necessary.......

I just heard Sarah Palin is coming to town today.....I'll be at the capitol later with the Tea Party Protestors.......I might have to put on my combat boots!
 
unions did good 50 years ago......it's no coincidence that union numbers across the nation have plummeted over the last 30 years......the general public sees that they are no longer necessary.

As you can see, some people here suck from the union tit and don't see it as a bad thing.
 
As you can see, some people here suck from the union tit and don't see it as a bad thing.

what power does the non-union worker in corporate american have in a right to work state have in wage negotiations?
 
what power does the non-union worker in corporate american have in a right to work state have in wage negotiations?

the same as all "legal" americans do......THEY HAVE THE POWER AND CHOICE TO GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!!!

i get pissed off when people choose their jobs and choose to accept employment somewhere and then later complain about it......they knew fully well what they were going to make......

I'll be more than happy to cross their picket lines and fill any of those state jobs that i'm either currently qualified for or can be trained into......i'm not greedy and I know i'm not the only one....

Wisconsin IS OPEN FOR BUSINESS........and I feel many more jobs will open up soon until "these people" get it........
 
the same as all "legal" americans do......THEY HAVE THE POWER AND CHOICE TO GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!!!

really? who's hiring?

have you even had a job? how many years in the US workforce do you have?
 
really? who's hiring?

have you even had a job? how many years in the US workforce do you have?

i normally don't resort to name calling, but it's warranted here.....you're an idiot to think that i don't work or haven't ever worked? I grew up here in Wisconsin.....I've been in the workforce for over 20 years......currently i'm working and going to tech school because of the unions it's hard to get hired in anywhere.....it's no coincidence that businesses are leaving wisconsin because of the absurd wage/benefits that need too be paid out....they're moving to places like Tennesse, Oklahoma, and out of the country......

and to talk about the "haves versus havenots"....there are many companies that you can't even get into without being referred in by another employee or a union member......general motors was a big example of that.....Thank God they left and closed up.....maybe now the standard of living will go back to normal levels and businesses might come to the area.....

it's NO COINCIDENCE that unions have declined tremendously since the 1970s.......they aren't needed nor are they wanted by the majority of the workforce.......they were once a good thing, but now they are nothing more than a legal form of organized crime
 
what power does the non-union worker in corporate american have in a right to work state have in wage negotiations?

the same as all "legal" americans do......THEY HAVE THE POWER AND CHOICE TO GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!!!

I'm going to agree with this.

Plus, the economy isn't doing well, this most certainly effects when and how much of a raise you get. The belief that not getting a raise necessitates the need for unions is bullshit. Unions were designed to handle problems and conditions that do exist anymore. They weren't created just because people weren't getting timely raises. They were created in an age were subjected to unsafe work conditions, unfair base wages, beating, and even murder. Now they're just a drain.

Let me guess, you're part of a union or have family that is?
 
As you can see, some people here suck from the union tit and don't see it as a bad thing.

And loving it. We are now in the process of closing on our first home. Why did I make the move now? Because I have job security that was provided years ago to me up until the workforce changed.

what power does the non-union worker in corporate american have in a right to work state have in wage negotiations?

None, zippo..zilch.

the same as all "legal" americans do......THEY HAVE THE POWER AND CHOICE TO GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!!!

Go where? To India? China? Bush and Clinton gave us Americans that nice option of sending a few jobs overseas..if you're willing to replant yourself overseas be our guest cause there are no jobs here.

i get pissed off when people choose their jobs and choose to accept employment somewhere and then later complain about it......they knew fully well what they were going to make......
I loved my job at Motorola up until the changes they made.



i normally don't resort to name calling, but it's warranted here.....you're an idiot to think that i don't work or haven't ever worked?
Then why go there? It frustration, I told this old man that Sarah Palin was a bad mistake for VP and the old bastard started cursing at me.....wow, he showed everyone what an idiot and close minded buffoon he was.
 
And loving it. We are now in the process of closing on our first home. Why did I make the move now? Because I have job security that was provided years ago to me up until the workforce changed.

And that's what I'm saying. The only people that think unions are any good are those that benefit from them. Everyone else knows they're a drain.
 
WI Governor's Fake Budget Crisis: Gave Tax Breaks to Wal-Mart to Further Real Agenda -- Union Busting
I have been attending the rallies, watching the coverage, reading the blogs and comments and come to the conclusion that most people don't know the true horror of this bill. I have come to set the record straight particularly when I saw a Front Page Diary here on Daily Kos that, again, talks about this bill only affecting state workers.

There is no fiscal crisis in Wisconsin. Governor Walker reports a nearly 130 million dollar deficit, but doesn't report that he caused it by giving a 140 million dollar tax break to large multinational corporations here in Wisconsin (e.g. WalMart). However, this cover story gives him an excuse to do the unthinkable.

State workers in Wisconsin have been without contracts for some time. The latest agreement (containing major concessions) was not passed by the State Legislature last year due to political maneuvering which led one Democrat to vote against it (he was later rewarded with a position in the new Walker administration).

But that's not really what I came to talk about. I came to talk about a so-called Budget Repair Bill to solve a fake budget crisis without addressing the budget at all.

So, what's in the bill? Prohibition of any unions or collective bargaining for most state workers. Those that continue to have any union representation at all will be limited to bargaining for wages only which will have a mandatory limit which will be set annually by the State Legislature. So, basically, the boss will tell you how much you are permitted to ask for.

No collective bargaining over insurance (so employees can be given high deductible junk insurance with no say in the matter), benefits, pensions, holidays or personal days, vacation, working conditions, adequate staffing, class size, worker safety issues, mandatory overtime, shift selection, requests for days off, etc.

If that wasn't bad enough, union dues would no longer be collected through payroll deduction so the unions would have to collect the dues themselves member by member. On top of that, unions would need to recertify every year . This is the same process that is used when employees band together to form a union in the first place; a process already so onerous and difficult (therefore, profitable to the many union-busting firms across this country) that new unions and locals are rarely formed.

Think that's bad? The real hidden horror is that Scott Walker didn't stop with state employees, but extended the impact of the bill to all city, town, village, and county employee in the State of Wisconsin. That's the real reason that thousands of public employees are in Madison. It's why non-public employee unions are supporting us. It's why students, patients, and citizens in general have joined us.

I'm just a retired Milwaukee Country Registered Nurse. My voice doesn't count. Sometimes I wonder if all my activism counts. But my voice and my activism count today as I join with thousands of proud Wisconsinites to protest the rise of a Dictator.

I hope I've educated you to the realities of this bill. Thanks for all the support, comments, and love that we get here. Kossack love is like no otherr.


Wow, so now I see the real issue. So basically they want to get rid of collective bargaining.

Oh I know all about the high deductible junk insurance...I'm all for it if they raise my pay.
Bullshit.
 
this is an editorial and not a real news piece.......it's irrelevant and holds no water.....

this bill IS being passed on tuesday.....the real question will be how quickly will those same individuals protesting against it will they cross their own picket lines and go back to work or lose their jobs forever to those willing to fill their positions?......they have no integrity and won't ever be taken seriously again
 
And that's what I'm saying. The only people that think unions are any good are those that benefit from them. Everyone else knows they're a drain.

Wrong, when they were taking advantage of us we all wished we had representation.
 
this is an editorial and not a real news piece.......it's irrelevant and holds no water.....

this bill IS being passed on tuesday.....the real question will be how quickly will those same individuals protesting against it will they cross their own picket lines and go back to work or lose their jobs forever to those willing to fill their positions?......they have no integrity and won't ever be taken seriously again

What he is saying are facts. Want me to get more facts?

He holds more water than a politician.
 
What do you gain Irish if this goes through?
Is this a case of my shitty private job sucks with no benefits, so YOURS should suck too?
 
What do you gain Irish if this goes through?
Is this a case of my shitty private job sucks with no benefits, so YOURS should suck too?

jobs will actually open up here in wisconsin......less taxes from us residents, more competition for businesses and industries.....in turn the value of the dollar in our state will improve......

wait, i've had a change of heart....i think everyone should get what they want, all the time, at whatever cost to everyone else......we'll figure out how to pay for it later.....or simply not pay at all.....
 
jobs will actually open up here in wisconsin......less taxes from us residents, more competition for businesses and industries.....in turn the value of the dollar in our state will improve......

wait, i've had a change of heart....i think everyone should get what they want, all the time, at whatever cost to everyone else......we'll figure out how to pay for it later.....or simply not pay at all.....

True.....at lower wages. Good luck with that.
 
If Walker succeeds how will he attract people to become teachers?
Think it's easy teaching inner city high schools?


States that expressly prohibit collective bargaining and strikes and their rank in the 2009 SAT:

North Carolina: 39th
Texas: 45th

A number of other states are "right to work", and specifically prohibit strikes by teachers or public employees- see Georgia, Alabama, Virginia. They tend not to fare well in test scores or only a small percentage of their students take college placement exams. You can look at the data yourself if you like.
 
the difference in thinking is that collective bargaining is actually a right, when in reality it's a PRIVELEGE.....
 
I have never had the benefit of representation by a union, so maybe that is why my opinion of unions is so low. Any bargaining I have done was based solely on my ability to convince my employer that I was worth the extra money and not worth the risk of losing. What deems a job union worthy? Why are teachers protected, but not walmart workers? Why are cops protected, but not nurses?

Is the teaching profession not flooded right now? Are there not plenty of capable teachers who need a chance to prove that they are quality educators? Why are teacher's salaries dependent on time served and not gauged on the performance of their student's academic performance?
 
I have never had the benefit of representation by a union, so maybe that is why my opinion of unions is so low. Any bargaining I have done was based solely on my ability to convince my employer that I was worth the extra money and not worth the risk of losing. What deems a job union worthy? Why are teachers protected, but not walmart workers? Why are cops protected, but not nurses?

Is the teaching profession not flooded right now? Are there not plenty of capable teachers who need a chance to prove that they are quality educators? Why are teacher's salaries dependent on time served and not gauged on the performance of their student's academic performance?

yes to all your questions....in addition the state workers that are skipping work protesting, once they go on strike there are MANY MANY capable workers that are either qualified or can be trained into their positions.....I don't think they fully realize that they're ALL replaceable......I'll be more than happy to cross their picket lines and work......
 
Why are teacher's salaries dependent on time served and not gauged on the performance of their student's academic performance?

because the home life of the child trumps anything done in the classroom. with a divorce rate nearing 60% in this country and many kids being born to single parent mothers there isn't going to be a high success rate of children from secondary schools in the US.
 
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