Gun guys!

[Killermonkey]

None of which changes the fact that guns do not cause crimes.

Anyone who thinks that guns cause crime and are a thorn to society is a fucking idiot, IMO.

Hypothetically, if guns were unconstitutionally banned from the average citizen, things would potentially get way out of control. People would take alternate routes for slaying one another like homemade explosives, running people over with motor vehicles, shanking, strangling, or whatever else could come to mind. Guns are useful for catching criminals to detectives because of residues and other evidence left behind after the shot is taken.

Guns don't kill, people kill. Let's get it right everyone!

Back to another point from a previous post, if guns were banned to the average citizen like in england, then only the criminals would have them and the rest of us would be fucked.

What I think would help people, is more comprehensive classes on what would constitute a legal cause to engage an enemy in strict self defense.

 

[OnPoint88]

The authors of the Constitution wrote in the right to bear arms because of their experience with corrupt government. Once the government starts infringing on your rights you know they're corrupt. I know a guy that got falsely accused of domestic violence and was convicted on "excited utterance" even though there was no physically evidence, so now it's a federal crime for him to possess a firearm, a decorated Viet Nam Vet who had a gun collection that included his service 45, M16, and M60. Keep in mind most gunners who held the M60 never came home. Needless to say he got 5 years in Federal prison for not giving up his gun collection.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/tucson-swa...-iraq-marine-veteran/story?id=13640112&page=2

 

[Killermonkey]

I hate anti gun fuckers. They ruin this country.

 

[big60235]

Just picked up a WW II Nazi Germany MP40 that needs a little work but have not been able to find anyone that I feel comfortable to have it worked on yet. It is completely ready to run some rounds through it just needs a tune up and a heavy clean. Have been told that a fully functional MP40 is valued at around 15k.

 

[LAM]

None of which changes the fact that guns do not cause crimes.

nobody said they did but they sure make it a lot harder. and were obviously dead wrong about those with FFL's not being a cause of gun crime.

the US is an extremely violent country and when you combing that intrinsic nature with easy access to firearms you end up with a country with a high death and murder rate by firearms.

gun violence in the US will only get worst with time as the poverty rate in the US continues to increase thanks to neo-liberal economic policy and easy access to firearms. but once again not many realize that this is simply another set-up by those "running the show"...

 

[bio-chem]

I've yet to see any gun regulation here in the states effectively cut gun crime. Over a hundred years of gun laws in this country and not once has it shown to reduce gun crime. gotta be a clue.

 

[Zaphod]

nobody said they did but they sure make it a lot harder. and were obviously dead wrong about those with FFL's not being a cause of gun crime.

the US is an extremely violent country and when you combing that intrinsic nature with easy access to firearms you end up with a country with a high death and murder rate by firearms.

gun violence in the US will only get worst with time as the poverty rate in the US continues to increase thanks to neo-liberal economic policy and easy access to firearms. but once again not many realize that this is simply another set-up by those "running the show"...

The FFLs aren't the cause. The people wanting to buy illegally are the cause. The FFLs that sell illegally are criminals but had someone not wanted to buy illegally then the FFL wouldn't have committed a crime.

You are blaming everything but the primary criminal.

 

[bio-chem]

I found those articles in 5 secs after doing a search, that being the case I prob could have found dozens not related to Mexico. you stated that people with FFL's are not a problem when obviously they are.

VT has one of the lowest crime rates because of the high per capita incomes just like where I grew up in PA, gun crime is almost zero. people with money don't commit crimes. gun crimes are the highest in places with high rates of poverty and low per capita incomes.

ATF CRIME GUN TRACE ANALYSIS REPORT
http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/ycgii/1998/cityreports/detroit.pdf

Brady Report: Illegal Gun Trafficking from Licensed Gun Dealers
http://www.bradycenter.org/xshare/pdf/reports/shady-dealings.pdf

Anything from the Brady group is full of shit. hands down. no matter how many statistics show them to be wrong they still press on with their battle.

people with money don't commit crimes? LAM have you lost your mind

 

[LAM]

Anything from the Brady group is full of shit. hands down. no matter how many statistics show them to be wrong they still press on with their battle.

people with money don't commit crimes? LAM have you lost your mind

did you read the paper? because most of the stats are from the ATF

people with money, jobs, well functioning family's, mortgages, etc. mostly commit white color crimes, check the crime stats on the DOJ website. the lower down the social economic ladder the more the type of crimes committed are related to violence, gun crimes, etc. the lower down the social economic ladder the less a person has to lose financially as they already have nothing. violent "street crime" is committed by those that have nothing

http://www.google.com/search?q=viol...gc.r_pw.&fp=b62454da27284b07&biw=1024&bih=588

 

[Zaphod]

You trust the ATF?

 

[LAM]

You trust the ATF?

why wouldn't I? I'm not an anti-government nut job. government isn't the problem it's the company's that pull the strings of government that are the problem...

 

[bio-chem]

government is absolutely the problem. the government should make sure we have clean water, open roads, sanitation, and a healthy military. more than that and the government is too damn big. i don't care what political party is in power

 

[troubador]

You trust the ATF?

You mean the agency used to work on gun control under the radar? No, of course not.

 

[LAM]

government is absolutely the problem. the government should make sure we have clean water, open roads, sanitation, and a healthy military. more than that and the government is too damn big. i don't care what political party is in power

why do only politicians spread the delusion of "limited" government? where are the research papers from academia that support this rhetoric?

what other countries in the world with large populations have implemented this model?

 

[bio-chem]

this isn't about rhetoric. and it's certainly not a delusion. This is what i want out of my government. I don't believe that if we had that government life would be grand all of a sudden. there would still be plenty of shit in America. I believe people would get out of their life what they put into it. as it should be, and that's all there is to it.

Show me a country where the more involved in peoples lives government is the better off they are? Show me where Big Government has been successful at any point in the history of the world?

 

[bio-chem]

Back to the real topic at hand. The awesomeness of GUNS. I see a 325 WSM in my future. Anyone own a rifle of this caliber? What make and model. The browning X bolt has to be very high on my list, but the potential is there for others as well. I'm thinking stainless barrel and a synthetic stock. any suggestions?

 

[Big Pimpin]

I just bought the wife a new G17 9mm and while I have a few Glock .40's, my next purchase is a G20 10mm.

If you want a new Glock on the cheap, join the Glock Sport Shooting Foundation.

 

[KelJu]

picked up a bushmaster ACR a couple of months ago they are very similar to the LWRC M6a4. now I need to get rid of one, not sure who's getting sold.

The bushmaster is sexy. You can bu y them damn things from Academy sports for $900. Then you can spend another $50 to turn it into a fully automatic. My buddy was infantry, and he modded his Bushmaster himself without a kit, but he knows rifles inside and out.

I'm not sure how hard it is to do, because I have never done it. The only long guns I own is a mini-14 and a 11-87 shotgun. I have always enjoyed handguns more.

 

[ALBOB]

we have gun shows all the time out here in Vegas. anyone can buy a weapon there are no onsite-background check's. it's all "faith" based

When was the last time you were at a gun show here? They've had the background check station in place since the day the law took affect. You buy from a FFL dealer, you WILL go through a background check or you won't be buying a gun that day. They also enforce the three day waiting period on handguns. If you're a first time handgun buyer you can purcahse one that day but, you can't take posession of it for 72 hours.

 

[ALBOB]

I participate in Cowboy Action Shooting. It's basically Tactical 3-Gun competition except we use single-action six guns, a lever action rifle and double barrel shotguns. My latest purchase was a new set of pistols; Ruger Vaqueros in .357/.38

 

[Killermonkey]

I just bought the wife a new G17 9mm and while I have a few Glock .40's, my next purchase is a G20 10mm.

If you want a new Glock on the cheap, join the Glock Sport Shooting Foundation.

The glock 17 is indissputably one of the best all around pistols to own

 

[LAM]

When was the last time you were at a gun show here? They've had the background check station in place since the day the law took affect. You buy from a FFL dealer, you WILL go through a background check or you won't be buying a gun that day. They also enforce the three day waiting period on handguns. If you're a first time handgun buyer you can purcahse one that day but, you can't take posession of it for 72 hours.

haven't been to one in years, but from all the ATF and DOJ reports this is still a big problem in the US. I only buy my weapons new from brick & motar stores, less of a chance of anything funny going on with them.

 

[ALBOB]

haven't been to one in years, but from all the ATF and DOJ reports this is still a big problem in the US. I only buy my weapons new from brick & motar stores, less of a chance of anything funny going on with them.

Just don't go here:

Air Force recovers stolen materials from Friday's raid - www.ktnv.com

 

[Killermonkey]

I participate in Cowboy Action Shooting. It's basically Tactical 3-Gun competition except we use single-action six guns, a lever action rifle and double barrel shotguns. My latest purchase was a new set of pistols; Ruger Vaqueros in .357/.38

I want to get one but I don't know much about them.

 

[ALBOB]

I want to get one but I don't know much about them.

These particular pistols come in pairs. They're Single Action Shooting Society comemmoratives. If you want just one, check out the Ruger Montado. It was specifically designed for Cowboy Mounted Shooters. It has a lower widened hammer spur for ease of cocking one handed. In regular Cowboy Action Shooting I shoot my pistols one handed so I also need to be able to cock and fire as fast as possible, the lower hammer profile is great for that. They come in .38/357 or .45 Colt

 

[dogsoldier]

the US has the highest rate of gun related crimes and murders because there is easy access to firearms AND we are a very violent country.

there are numerous countries out there with more lax gun laws with substantially less violent crime and murder rates where guns were used.

LAM, I would check that comment against stats out of Mexico. They have the most gun related murders per capita than the USA. And FWIW, there are NO countries out there anymore with more lax gun laws. ZIP.

Even gun friendly countries like Sweden, Denmark and Switzerland all signed off the the UN gun ban treaty and implemented very harsh regulations on even hunting rifles.

 

[LAM]

LAM, I would check that comment against stats out of Mexico. They have the most gun related murders per capita than the USA. And FWIW, there are NO countries out there anymore with more lax gun laws. ZIP.

Even gun friendly countries like Sweden, Denmark and Switzerland all signed off the the UN gun ban treaty and implemented very harsh regulations on even hunting rifles.

many would argue how much of a "country" mexico really is...this is the path that the US is following as our poverty rate is only 3rd behind Mexico and Turkey

 

[bio-chem]

any chance you boys would mind taking the off topic stuff somewhere else? I admit i have been part of the problem, but I absolutely hate to see a good Gun thread get bogged down in bullshit. This is not a thread about poverty rates in Mexico

 

[ALBOB]

To get back on track, this wasn't my latest purchase. Hell, I didn't even purchase it. It was a Christmas present from my wife. Boys, meet my friend Wildey:

 

[Killermonkey]

any chance you boys would mind taking the off topic stuff somewhere else? I admit i have been part of the problem, but I absolutely hate to see a good Gun thread get bogged down in bullshit. This is not a thread about poverty rates in Mexico

I will open another thread for the battle of murders abroad