Soy Milk and Estrogen?

[TJTJ]

...Almonds don't have nipples, therefore we shouldn't drink almond MILK...

Hrr hrr

 

[Powermaster]

soy milk is very good source of protein ..its estrogenic effects are not a bad thing at all and it will not affect your muscles at all ...it was jut a propaganda advertising against soy;;;i drink it all the time and i don;t have tits so far

Brilliant rebuttal: Millions of smokers use this same analogy "well I've been smoking for 20 years and don't have cancer...it's all propaganda"

Like I said before, go ahead and drink the shit. Me no freakin way. Whey + water = done.

 

[BFHammer]

I'll pass on the soy. The asian eat small amounts of fermented soy. Not the gmo pesticide laden crap on the shelves here.

The Truth About Soy Foods

Dr. Kaayla Daniel, author of The Whole Soy Story, points out thousands of studies linking soy to malnutrition, digestive distress, immune-system breakdown, thyroid dysfunction, cognitive decline, reproductive disorders and infertility—even cancer and heart disease.
Here is just a sampling of the health effects that have been linked to soy consumption:

• Breast cancer
• Brain damage
• Infant abnormalities
• Thyroid disorders
• Kidney stones
• Immune system impairment
• Severe, potentially fatal food allergies
• Impaired fertility
• Danger during pregnancy and nursing

What Are the Dangers of Soy? | eHow.com

What’s On My Food :: Pesticides on Soybean Grain

[h=2]Soybean Grain[/h] [SIZE=+2]10[/SIZE] Pesticide Residues Found by the USDA Pesticide Data Program[SUP]1,2,3[/SUP]
[h=3]Human Health Effects:[/h]

—	Known or Probable Carcinogens[SUP]4[/SUP]
—	Suspected Hormone Disruptors
—	Neurotoxins
—	Developmental or Reproductive Toxins

[TD="align: right"]3[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]5[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]2[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]2[/TD]

[h=3]Environmental Effects:[/h]

—	Honeybee Toxins[SUP]5[/SUP]

[TD="align: right"]3[/TD]

[h=3]Pesticide Residues Found in Soybean Grain:[/h] [TABLE="class: residue"]
[TR]
[TH]What Pesticide?[/TH]
[TH]How Often is it Found?[SUP]6[/SUP][/TH]
[TH]Conventional vs. Organic[/TH]
[TH]Toxicity[SUP]7[/SUP][/TH]
[TH]Other Foods with this Pesticide[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Chlorpyrifos [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 14.5% [/TD]
[TD] Conventional
vs. Organic
[/TD]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD] Other Foods [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Malathion [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 5.2% [/TD]
[TD] Conventional
vs. Organic
[/TD]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD] Other Foods [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Pyraclostrobin [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 2.0% [/TD]
[TD] Conventional
vs. Organic
[/TD]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD] Other Foods [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Dimethenamid [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 1.3% [/TD]
[TD] Conventional
vs. Organic
[/TD]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD] Other Foods [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Permethrin Total [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 0.7% [/TD]
[TD] Conventional
vs. Organic
[/TD]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD] Other Foods [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Alachlor [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 0.3% [/TD]
[TD] Conventional
vs. Organic
[/TD]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD] Other Foods [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Trifluralin [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 0.3% [/TD]
[TD] Conventional
vs. Organic
[/TD]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD] Other Foods [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Thiabendazole [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 0.2% [/TD]
[TD] Conventional
vs. Organic
[/TD]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD] Other Foods [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Sulfentrazone [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 0.2% [/TD]
[TD] Conventional
vs. Organic
[/TD]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD] Other Foods [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Methoxyfenozide [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 0.1% [/TD]
[TD] Conventional
vs. Organic
[/TD]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD] Other Foods [/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[BFHammer]

Institute for Responsible Technology - GMO Dangers

findings include:

• Thousands of sheep, buffalo, and goats in India died after grazing on Bt cotton plants
• Mice eating GM corn for the long term had fewer, and smaller, babies
• More than half the babies of mother rats fed GM soy died within three weeks, and were smaller
• Testicle cells of mice and rats on a GM soy change significantly
• By the third generation, most GM soy-fed hamsters lost the ability to have babies
• Rodents fed GM corn and soy showed immune system responses and signs of toxicity
• Cooked GM soy contains as much as 7-times the amount of a known soy allergen
• Soy allergies skyrocketed by 50% in the UK, soon after GM soy was introduced
• The stomach lining of rats fed GM potatoes showed excessive cell growth, a condition that may lead to cancer.
• Studies showed organ lesions, altered liver and pancreas cells, changed enzyme levels, etc.

 

[exphys88]

Drink organic soy milk. All of these propaganda brochures fail to provide references. And, all of the issues are from GMO foods, which would also require you to not eat tons of fruits and veges if you were to avoid them completely.
The op was asking about drinking soy milk. Drinking a little soy milk as part of a well rounded diet is healthy, I stand by this claim and am yet to see any reason to believe different.

I can reproduce just as much propaganda that will tell you to avoid cows milk and whey protein too, but it doesn't make it true. Same thing w corn or potatoes or even meat and some veges.
The fact is that no food that's eaten in moderation is going to kill you, and yes, if you eat tons of one food, it's not healthy, whether it's soy milk, milk, cheese, or even spinach. Lots of spinach has been linked w kidney stones, should we demonize it too? Should we hand out pamphlets all about the dangers of spinach?

 

[exphys88]

Here are foods that can cause kidney stones. You should never eat these, they're bad, mmkay!

High-oxalate foods-higher to lower
rhubarb
spinach
beets
swiss chard
wheat germ
soybean crackers
peanuts
okra
chocolate
black Indian tea
sweet potatoes

Foods that have medium amounts of oxalate may be eaten in limited amounts.
Medium-oxalate foods-higher to lower
grits
grapes
celery
green pepper
red raspberries
fruit cake
strawberries
marmalade
liver
Source: The Oxalosis and Hyperoxaluria Foundation .

 

[Powermaster]

Drink organic soy milk.

If you must, but read the label. The most common brand out there that I am aware of is "silk" has way more processed sugar than soy and like I mentioned in my first post happens to be by allot.
Sure you could get sugar free but I'll bet it taste like ass <gags>.

 

[exphys88]

Yes silk is loaded w sugar.

 

[sassy69]

The issue with soy products, is that the people that eat them are usually vegetarian and eat tons of it. A diet that is overly saturated with one food product is not healthy regardless of what the food is. Soy products, as part of a well balanced diet are healthy.

^^ This. I work w/ an Indian guy who generally keeps a vegan diet to please his wife. He was consuming hellabunch of soy stuff and I recommended he reduce that particular protein source a bit and he's been able to drop some of the fluff he had.

 

[sophiamitchell37]

1. Im working in a Soy milk factory so I have unlimited protein shakes, but will they give me bitch-tits (or have any negative affect) despite the fact I supplement with test?

2. Will drinking Soy milk make me gay?

What kind of question is that?! haha! Of course not.. Well, If you want to be, i won't forbid you.
Anyways, yes. It's a high protein drink but as it is. The vitamins will be consumed by the whole body not only by the..
I drink 250ml/every other day(a bottle), sometimes twice a week only as part of my diet solution plan. And look, (well, if you can see me) I don't have big.. (you know) but i'm fit.

 

[200+]

Man, this thread went nowhere.
I switched from only soy milk (I drank for years) to cows milk specifically for a "better" source of protein, but I don't know what made me think that way. And what about cholesterol? Soy milk has the same amount of sugar too.

 

[MuscleGauge1]

Big fan of the organic soy milk also

 

[Arra]

And what about cholesterol?

Dietary cholesterol has little effect on the amount of blood cholesterol you have. Actually, in most cases dietary cholesterol increases the size of your LDL particles (thus possibly saving them from oxidation).

As for saturated fat in dairy, again, don't worry about it, as it also increases size of LDL particles. In fact there are conflicting studies showing that saturated fat has a lowering effect of blood cholesterol, such as Framingham 1992 where they concluded "the people who ate the most saturated fat weighed the least and had the lowest cholesterol levels"

 

[exphys88]

Dietary cholesterol isn't the culprit in raising blood cholesterol levels, saturated fat is.
Arra, to say not to worry about saturated fat is to ignore decades of research linking saturated fat to elevated cholesterol levels, and heart disease.

Vegans who eat very little saturated fat have extremely low rates of hypertension, obesity, hypercholesterolemia, diabetes and heart disease.
In fact, the only documented cases of reversing coronary disease has been done by vegans on a very low fat diet. no other diet in the world has done this. Look up the lion heart study w dr Ornish.

You seem to know quite a bit, so I'd like to see why you think saturated fat has no bearing on cholesterol levels.

 

[Arra]

Dietary cholesterol isn't the culprit in raising blood cholesterol levels, saturated fat is.
Arra, to say not to worry about saturated fat is to ignore decades of research linking saturated fat to elevated cholesterol levels, and heart disease.

Vegans who eat very little saturated fat have extremely low rates of hypertension, obesity, hypercholesterolemia, diabetes and heart disease.
In fact, the only documented cases of reversing coronary disease has been done by vegans on a very low fat diet. no other diet in the world has done this. Look up the lion heart study w dr Ornish.

You seem to know quite a bit, so I'd like to see why you think saturated fat has no bearing on cholesterol levels.

I never said saturated fat doesn't raise blood cholesterol levels for anyone, simply that there is conflicting evidence, including studies where people ate 20-50% sauturated fat:

Effect of 6-month adherence to a very low carbohydr... [Am J Med. 2002] - PubMed - NCBI
Nutrition & Metabolism | Full text | Comparison of isocaloric very low carbohydrate/high saturated fat and high carbohydrate/low saturated fat diets on body composition and cardiovascular risk
Diet and weight loss
A randomized trial of a low-carbohydrate diet f... [N Engl J Med. 2003] - PubMed - NCBI

To name a few.

Can you link me to articles showing that saturated fat, without a doubt, caused heart disease?

Same can be said about high fat/low carb populations.

The Lyon Heart Study had one group on a prudent diet, one on a Mediterranean diet. The intervention group didn't just up omega-3 intake, but decreased omega-6 intake to below 4% of diet. The ratio was 20 : 1 LA-to-ALA in the control group, and 4.4-to-1 in the intervention group. I'm not totally familiar with the rest of the study, but it seems biased to think that a prudent diet should be a SAD diet o63 ratio. However, if you think it's because of LDL reductions, you're grasping at straws.

 

[exphys88]

[h=1]Am J Clin Nutr. 2010 Mar;91(3):502-9. Epub 2010 Jan 20.
Saturated fat, carbohydrate, and cardiovascular disease.[/h]Siri-Tarino PW, Sun Q, Hu FB, Krauss RM.
[h=3]Source[/h]Department of Atherosclerosis Research Children's Hospital Oakland Research Institute Oakland, CA, USA.

[h=3]Abstract[/h]A focus of dietary recommendations for cardiovascular disease (CVD) prevention and treatment has been a reduction in saturated fat intake, primarily as a means of lowering LDL-cholesterol concentrations. However, the evidence that supports a reduction in saturated fat intake must be evaluated in the context of replacement by other macronutrients. Clinical trials that replaced saturated fat with polyunsaturated fat have generally shown a reduction in CVD events, although several studies showed no effects. An independent association of saturated fat intake with CVD risk has not been consistently shown in prospective epidemiologic studies, although some have provided evidence of an increased risk in young individuals and in women. Replacement of saturated fat by polyunsaturated or monounsaturated fat lowers both LDL and HDL cholesterol. However, replacement with a higher carbohydrate intake, particularly refined carbohydrate, can exacerbate the atherogenic dyslipidemia associated with insulin resistance and obesity that includes increased triglycerides, small LDL particles, and reduced HDL cholesterol. In summary, although substitution of dietary polyunsaturated fat for saturated fat has been shown to lower CVD risk, there are few epidemiologic or clinical trial data to support a benefit of replacing saturated fat with carbohydrate. Furthermore, particularly given the differential effects of dietary saturated fats and carbohydrates on concentrations of larger and smaller LDL particles, respectively, dietary efforts to improve the increasing burden of CVD risk associated with atherogenic dyslipidemia should primarily emphasize the limitation of refined carbohydrate intakes and a reduction in excess adiposity.

I do think that the paradigm is changing, but I don't think we can say "don't worry about saturated fat" just yet. It seems that the research that is looking at what saturated fat is being replaced with is in it's infancy.

 

[exphys88]

Can you link me to articles showing that saturated fat, without a doubt, caused heart disease?

This is a silly question. Can you link me to articles showing that smoking, without a doubt, caused lung cancer? Of course not, and I'm surprised that you would ask for absolute proof for something.

The Lyon Heart Study had one group on a prudent diet, one on a Mediterranean diet. The intervention group didn't just up omega-3 intake, but decreased omega-6 intake to below 4% of diet. The ratio was 20 : 1 LA-to-ALA in the control group, and 4.4-to-1 in the intervention group. I'm not totally familiar with the rest of the study, but it seems biased to think that a prudent diet should be a SAD diet o63 ratio. However, if you think it's because of LDL reductions, you're grasping at straws.

The lyon study is not addressing whether this should be a SAD diet, it's merely measuring the effect of a low fat, whole food, plant based diet on heart disease. This diet is virtually saturated fat free and it's the best way to prevent cardiovascular disease, and will actually reverse it. This is profound in cardiology, no other dietary program has actually reversed atherosclerosis. So, it raises the question, "why does reducing saturated fat have such a positive impact on cvd risk if saturated fat does not matter? Some even say saturated fat is a healthy way to avoid cvd.

My point is that this is very recent research, and to make huge claims about not needing to worry about saturated fat is not being very objective at all. These things take decades to be able to make such strong statements.

 

[Arra]

[SIZE=-1][/SIZE]http://www.bmj.com/highwire/filestream/240816/field_highwire_article_pdf/0/1531.full.pdf

The saturated fat group fared the best.

The case for LDL "clogging arteries" is smacked in the face by studies such as the UCLA study of 2009 showed that 75% of patients who had heart disease in 541 hospitals had LDL in the safe range, 50% in the optimal, and 17% had it in the new <75mg/dl range.

I think it's safe to say that saturated fat isn't what we have to worry about, but rather polyunsaturates. The weight of the evidence supports the oxidation of LDL being an issue. There are also studies showing that when statins don't have their LDL-lowering capabilities they produce anti-atherogenic effects.

Have you found a theory for how LDL oxidizes minus through polyunsaturates being oxidized?

 

[Arra]

This is a silly question. Can you link me to articles showing that smoking, without a doubt, caused lung cancer? Of course not, and I'm surprised that you would ask for absolute proof for something.


The lyon study is not addressing whether this should be a SAD diet, it's merely measuring the effect of a low fat, whole food, plant based diet on heart disease. This diet is virtually saturated fat free and it's the best way to prevent cardiovascular disease, and will actually reverse it. This is profound in cardiology, no other dietary program has actually reversed atherosclerosis. So, it raises the question, "why does reducing saturated fat have such a positive impact on cvd risk if saturated fat does not matter? Some even say saturated fat is a healthy way to avoid cvd.

My point is that this is very recent research, and to make huge claims about not needing to worry about saturated fat is not being very objective at all. These things take decades to be able to make such strong statements.

You said "Dietary cholesterol isn't the culprit in raising blood cholesterol levels, saturated fat is." as absolute, so I asked for absolute proof.

They also lower polyunsaturates, by allowing less than 10% total fat. So they lower all fat, so I could hypothesize that monounsaturate-lowering caused the CVD to go down, couldn't I? But I wouldn't because I'm going with the weight of the evidence for oxidation versus "LDL is clogging your arteries."

 

[exphys88]

Here is a list of other foods that contain phytoestrogens and should be completely eliminated from the diet; eating them will not only make you gay, but will cause you to develop a nice set of breasts:

Flax, sesame seeds, wheatberries, oats, barley, dried beans, lentils, yams, apples, carrots, coffee, bourbon and beer.