The 30% demand is a counter to the 2% the school system is offering. Through collective bargaining they will get to a number somewhere in between.
Are people really so dense they don't know how it works?
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Chicago teachers vote for strike in battle over pay, longer school days
- Thread starter Curt James
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The 30% demand is a counter to the 2% the school system is offering. Through collective bargaining they will get to a number somewhere in between.
Are people really so dense they don't know how it works?
Then don't bitch when your kids come home more stupid than when they left because any teacher worth his salt left to go do something else that pays better. You want top notch education for your kids but you don't want to pay for it. Talk about entitlement.
I'm not saying that matters, I'm saying you can't expect someone to accumulate 6 years worth of school debt and pay them $45k/yr, especially when a year's worth of school now costs $20k.
irish_2003
Board Rep
privatizing education fixes this issue...our gov scott walker has the right idea about union thuggery and public workers
The truth is it doesn't fix the issue. Kids in charter schools and for-profit schools perform below those kids in public schools. Less money is spent on actual education per child in for-profit schools.
Certified teachers+modern instruction=better public-school math scores | News Bureau | University of Illinois
BFHammer
Registered
What is the truth is subjective to who's making the study. Trusting 2 teaching professors to be unbiased is like asking democrats if taxes are good for the economy.
NAICU - More About the AEI Graduation Rates Report: The Performance of Private vs. Public Institutions
- Private, nonprofit colleges and universities offer smaller classes and more personal attention from faculty and administrators.
- As a result, their students graduate in four years, on average, at nearly twice the rate as students at state universities: 79 percent vs. 49 percent, respectively, according to the U.S. Department of Education. This holds true for students regardless of their economic background or level of academic preparation entering college.
As Irish says the schools will be in a continual decline as long as it's about money and power for government and unions and damn the kids. It's an illegal monopoly that needs to be broken up. Privatize the schools and they will finally become competitive as well as a higher class of teachers. Teachers can whine all they want about pay, yet they choose a part time job and demand full time money. They get a ton of time off. Privatize the schools and keep the taxes local and everyone is better off. Instead all the money goes to the fed or state level, skimmed off for pet projects or areas, then the leftovers go to the district administrators, and the crumbs go to the teachers.
My kids will be home schooled and likely have 4 year degrees by age 19. The entire education system was set up by Rockefeller to make Employees, not successful citizens who run their own businesses.
facts are objective not subjective meaning they are mind independent, they exist and will always be factual regardless if they are known or not.
maybe learn english first before trying to debate? you are a perfect example of the dunning-kruger effect
You're exaggerating. You can get a bachelor's degree from a public university for less than 7K a year.
On the other hand they should know what they're getting into. If you don't know what it means to borrow $120K then you shouldn't do it.
Another point, those teaching degrees are mostly fluff. I know someone who's an adjunct professor and also someone who earned a teaching degree. The classes are just full of ridiculous assignments and the education level of most of the students was disturbing. The girl I know who got her teaching degree was continually correcting some of her professors on things like grammar and definitions for stupid assignments like 'write your own version of Goldilocks and the Three Bears'. Sure they had some real classes but so much of it was just garbage. I'm not sure what the answer is but it seems like these teaching degree requirements are mostly just an effect of the education industrial complex.
This is true, but we aren't talking about private, non-profit colleges and universities. We are talking about public schools versus for-profit privatized schools.
As far as Irish goes his grasp on facts is tenuous at best. He's filled with political diatribe and "facts", not real facts.
Privatized schools don't do any better at educating than public schools. That's a fact. Where is there any proof of them hiring a "higher class" of teachers? Privatized schools aren't required to have any specific teaching credentials, teaching experience or even any knowledge of the subject on which they will be teaching. Teachers work a part-time job? They may have three months off in the summer but they are spending most of their off-work time doing school related things. Papers and tests don't get magically graded. They don't get overtime when they have to sit at school from 7am to 9pm for three days during parent-teacher conferences waiting for parents, who don't much give a shit about their kids' education, to show up. When the school system doesn't pay for all the supplies the teachers need YOU don't fill the gap, the teacher does.
Budgetary shortfalls aren't due to teachers and their unions, the shortfalls are due to the administration fucking it all up.
Here is a perfect example of what happens when state and local government borrow to fund spending vs increasing taxes.
Texas' debt growing at faster rate than U.S. government's | News | News from Fort Worth,...
Texas' debt growing at faster rate than U.S. government's | News | News from Fort Worth,...
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I wasn't sure if teaching programs differed from state to state, but I can tell you everyone I know who got a Bachelors in Teaching/Education had some of the most easy and silliest fuggin classes I had ever heard of in college. I remember this one chick telling me she was learning how to decorate a classroom wall in one class.
Now that I think about it, I can't recall the last time I heard even third hand of someone getting a teaching degree. I'm not sure if it's the pay or the liability that's running them off. I guess $40K/yr and 2.5 months off was a good deal in the 90's when the cost of living was less.
In my little mind, it seems the same chicks who probably would have got a teaching degree 15 years ago are going the RN route which obviously makes a helluva lot more money with infinite room to grow one's skill set.
I 100% agree on the education industrial complex. However, you are making far less with a bachelors, and $28k is still a chunk of money for someone making $35k, if that. And while I may have exaggerate for effect, the number of schools charging $7k a year is a larger exaggeration in the other direction. I am a free market guy and kind of get the impression you are as well. I have a tough time believing you are going to get good teachers paying the bare minimum for a degree. For one, anyone can go to community college. Second, the reason people are getting masters degrees is because people are getting masters degrees. This makes it a more competitive profession. Conditions for teachers are getting worse, bigger class sizes, parents who don't give a fuck, etc. Eventually there is going to be no good reason to become a teacher, then you're only gonna get assholes who wanna be off for the summer.
Yeah, at this point you would need to either be a fool or a pedophile to become a teacher.
I didn't talk about the number of $7K schools but while they may not be be the norm there are enough that if you want to go to one it's not a problem. Once you start having a large number of candidates with masters applying to teach kids how to color for 35K a year, the pay isn't the problem. The problem is you have a large number of people getting unnecessary degrees. However, this is exactly what some people want to see happen.
I don't think the system should be requiring teachers to get their masters. It's superfluous for someone to have a masters in education. A bachelors in education is ridiculous to begin with. There's no need for an elementary school teacher to have anything more than an associates. At the high school level I can't imagine hiring a teacher because they have a masters in education(or something similar). A bachelors specific to an area of study is more than enough. I mean if you need to hire a math or science teacher, you'd be crazy to hire someone with a masters in ed. over someone with a bachelors in engineering/chemistry/physics/etc.
And any high rank financial sector employee, and they actually get paid with our tax money too just like those union peeps.
BFHammer
Registered
Poor little LAM, is the tin foil hat on too tight tonight? What you present is interpretations of data and if you had any knowledge of science under the foil you would know data is easily manipulated into what the view wants as an outcome. Go to your room and contemplate reality for once. You probably believe in the global warming religion too don't you little fella?
Take away the government monopoly on kids, or more accurately the funding for the kids and it's a whole new world. Schools would have to compete for the children which means being competitive and getting results. Something your beloved chair warming government workers have always failed at. Here the school district with the highest per pupil spending currently has a 41% graduation rate. Great job liberal wankers!!
A far higher percentage of private school kids go on to college, the rest end up like LAM super sizing things at the drive thru.
Of course it would be nice if the teachers could pass a 8th grade test. But the unions block the schools from firing idiots.
Prospective School Teachers Fail Test in Massachusetts -- September 1998 Education Reporter
Now go add up the worst schools in the country and you'll find democrats have ruled those cities for decades.
When you have cities like Chicago and Detroit where the kids are acting like animals, not doing the school work, basically not learning, nothing the teacher can do is going to raise the graduation rate. Teachers can't force kids to learn. That is up to the parents to do. Blaming the teacher for your kid not learning is moronic at best.
BFHammer
Registered
Again a fallacy. Did you even read the article?? "Texas has what we consider to be a very low net debt burden," S&P wrote. In part, that's because so much debt is borne by local governments. Per capita, only Tennessee has a smaller state tax burden than Texas.
Most of the debt is for construction which in the state that is growing by leaps and bounds is a good thing. 25% of all new jobs in the US are from Texas.
Not to mention how many billions of the debt are from paying for your illegal immigrants to be schooled, housed, and given free health care because we don't enforce our laws on the border??
LAM your too easy, though it's amusing how you do try so hard.
BFHammer
Registered
I'm not blaming the teachers, just the bad ones and the school system in general which wastes countless amounts of money on administration and political correctness.
Most kids in democrat ruined metropolis's don't have a chance without privatizing the schools and giving the parents vouchers. Then they could be sent away to boarding school even if that is what it takes to get them away from the welfare created gang culture.
As far as the animals they need to be kept in line by whatever means necessary or kick their ass out on the street.
If you aren't blaming the teachers why are you taking your frustration out on them?
LOL...yea that's it "I'm" the easy one...I posted that as an example as to what is the trend in EVERY state in the US and has been since the 60's. borrowing to fund capital projects is good because the only other answer is to raise revenue by increasing taxes.
state and local debt has been increasing across all 50 states for the exact same reason some states more than others.
http://www.library.unt.edu/gpo/acir/Reports/information/m-104.pdf
Federal, state and local debt hits post-WWII levels
and those illegal immigrants started pouring into the country decades ago when Red Ronnie signed the The Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA) in 1986. and whose name is on that one, Alan K Simpson (R) from Wyoming. and the effects of that legislation created a legal arrangement essentially built to fail, giving authorities regulatory responsibilities that were all but impossible to achieve under existing law.
and then the problem worsened with the Immigration Act of 1990 which increased the number of illegal immigrants allowed into the US
* aren't you sick and tired of being wrong about everything?
BFHammer
Registered
Poor little LAM. Anytime a factually devoid narcissist says I'm wrong it just makes me smile and proves the correctness of actual facts. Are you the lamb mary lost you just can't even spell?? Let's give little LAM a math lesson. We know demented socialists like yourself think all income belongs to the State you worship and the little people should be happy they are left with the crumbs. Let's look at reality. Taxation and revenue have an Inverse relationship throughout recorded history. Since your a little slow that means more taxes=less revenue because the rich and the productive stop working. Then LAM goes on protests about all the "free" stuff he doesn't get from the useful people. Let's look at the 2 best recent examples being Reagan and Kennedy. Both dramatically dropped taxes and in Reagan's case TRIPLED federal revenues. Their is this weird thing that happens when you socialist thieves don't steal everyone's labor. They work harder and everyone makes more money.
Now which states are near or have gone bankrupt? Courtesy of Economic Policy Journal we now know that the majority of American states are currently insolvent, and that the US Treasury has been conducting a shadow bailout of at least 32 US states. Over 60% of Americans receiving state unemployment benefits are getting these directly from the US government, as 32 states have now borrowed $37.8 billion from Uncle Sam to fund unemployment insurance. The states in most dire condition, are, not unexpectedly, the unholy trifecta of California ($6.9 billion borrowed), Michigan ($3.9 billion), and New York ($3.2 billion).
What do they have in common? High taxes and ran by democrats. Now let's go global, who's going bankrupt, Greece, Portugal, Spain, all good extreme taxation socialist kool aid countries with 1/3 of their population working for the government.
Liberals like you are a cancer on society, draining it's life force and freedoms to fuel your idiot agenda.
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Money fairies.
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Purchased an interesting book on ADD years ago. I forget the title, but it described different personalities not as good and bad or well behaved and disorderly but as farmer and hunter.
10,000 years ago, civilization forked.
Farming was invented and the way people spent their time was changed forever.Farming is a very different activity from hunting. Farmers spend time working and planning and worrying. They worry about the weather. They make smart choices about seeds and breeding.Hunters, on the other hand, spend an awful lot of time just watching and waiting. And waiting and watching. With occasional moments of distraction. And brief periods of frenzied panic.
Some people are better at one activity than another. And then tend to approach life rather differently as a result. Farmers like meetings and plans. Hunters want to try stuff and see what happens.Farmers want to avoid epic failure. Hunters want a high-stakes mission. Farmers like Facebook. Hunters like Google.
Traditional schooling doesn't really suit Hunters. A child who has innate hunting skills is easily distracted, because noticing small movements in the landscape is exactly what you'd need to do if you were hunting.Scan and scan and scan and scan and POUNCE.In school, you'll find that same distracted child can drop everything and focus like a laser - when it matters.
The "farmer", on the other hand, is particularly good at tilling the fields of endless homework problems, each one a bit like the other. Just don't ask him to change gears instantly.
Of course, forcing "hunters" to sit quietly in a school designed to teach farming doesn't make a lot of sense.
From The Unreasonable Man: Rethinking the Classroom - Educating Hunters and Farmers
Schools, unfortunately, are predominantly set up for the farmers. The hunters are looked at as disruptive and needing medication. Someone mentioned their frustration over political correctness. Well, with all the talk of celebrating diversity, my one complaint about education and schools is that hunters are given nowhere to go.
Some people are better at one activity than another. And then tend to approach life rather differently as a result. Farmers like meetings and plans. Hunters want to try stuff and see what happens.Farmers want to avoid epic failure. Hunters want a high-stakes mission. Farmers like Facebook. Hunters like Google.
Traditional schooling doesn't really suit Hunters. A child who has innate hunting skills is easily distracted, because noticing small movements in the landscape is exactly what you'd need to do if you were hunting.Scan and scan and scan and scan and POUNCE.In school, you'll find that same distracted child can drop everything and focus like a laser - when it matters.
The "farmer", on the other hand, is particularly good at tilling the fields of endless homework problems, each one a bit like the other. Just don't ask him to change gears instantly.
Of course, forcing "hunters" to sit quietly in a school designed to teach farming doesn't make a lot of sense.
From The Unreasonable Man: Rethinking the Classroom - Educating Hunters and Farmers
Schools, unfortunately, are predominantly set up for the farmers. The hunters are looked at as disruptive and needing medication. Someone mentioned their frustration over political correctness. Well, with all the talk of celebrating diversity, my one complaint about education and schools is that hunters are given nowhere to go.
the rich stop working because of high taxes? funny I don't remember anybody in my neighborhood not working when taxes increased in the 80's. as a matter of fact most people either had a larger home built or greatly increased the sq footage. There also sees to be a complete lack of empirical data that supports your rhetoric as there isn't a single report from any economists anywhere that shows the wealthy stop being productive when taxes are increased, those are "facts" you made up in your head. the rich make money regardless of who is in office, more under the Dems and a little less under the GOP. the top 1% has increased wealth substantially over the past 4 decades, much of this has to do with the decrease in taxes on capital. and if you go back to the years right after WWII when the top tax rate was 70% the rich were still getting wealthy, just not as fast.* Reagan lowered the stated tax rates on paper the EFFECTIVE TAX RATES which is what company's pay in reality didn't change at all, it was 2% of GDP in 81 and 2% in 89 and in 2012 it's 2% of GDP.
Table 2.3?RECEIPTS BY SOURCE AS PERCENTAGES OF GDP: 1934?2017
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2013/assets/hist02z3.xls
* from 81-89 revenue from taxes doubled as did government spending and the annual budget deficit tripled.
Table 1.1?SUMMARY OF RECEIPTS, OUTLAYS, AND SURPLUSES OR DEFICITS (?): 1789?2017
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2013/assets/hist01z1.xls
* and what a shocker...the heavily populated cities in the north have had to borrow more because of the Bush recession....do any of your brain cells actually work or are they stuck on ideologue mode? it's only been this way since the late 1700's...read history much?
Here is a map of the Global 500's in the US 70% are in the higher taxed higher paying higher union northern states. Just like in the 1700's, the 1800's, the 1900's and now the 2000s. the manufacturing in the US is STILL LOCATED PRIMARILY IN THE NORTH
Global 500 2011: Countries - U.S. - FORTUNE on CNNMoney.com
And a GDP map of the US for manufacturing...take away the oil from Texas and what is it exactly that the southern states produce? corn and wheat?
GDP by State
"Liberals like you are a cancer on society, draining it's life force"
I probably make more in 45 days than you do in a year..you call me a liberal but when I travel around the world most call me moderate...one of the advantages of actually knowing how the US economy functions is you can make it work for you.
irish_2003
Board Rep
i think what LAM is saying is that if we're all taxed so we have equal pay leftover no matter what job, career, or business you have, no matter what you wealth is, then those taxes will be distributed equally to everyone as seen fit by the government and the world will be perfect...everyone will continue to work hard because they know deep in their hearts that when they work someone else will benefit from it and they'll never be wealthy themselves so they won't ever have to work hard again and shouldn't ever feel overworked as a result...
STFU you liberal pieces of shit...
STFU you liberal pieces of shit...
BFHammer
Registered
Little LAM because the people in your trailer park upgraded to double wides doesn't mean the "rich" kept spending. I'm quite certain your welfare and food stamp income don't make 1 day of my income.
At least for the first time you actually posted a link to attempt to back up your pathetic opinions. Except of course they are wrong again. GDP percentages are irrelevant as the population increases and the hidden tax of fiat monetary inflation will always increase as well. The dollar has lost 95% of it's value since Nixon detached it from Gold. God only knows how bad it really is with the 150% increase in monetary supply with our domestic terrorist Obama Bin Biden following up the socialist Bush.
Increasing The Top Tax Rate Does Not Increase Tax Revenues: Lowering The Top Tax Rate Increases Tax Revenues - Misunderstood Finance
At least for the first time you actually posted a link to attempt to back up your pathetic opinions. Except of course they are wrong again. GDP percentages are irrelevant as the population increases and the hidden tax of fiat monetary inflation will always increase as well. The dollar has lost 95% of it's value since Nixon detached it from Gold. God only knows how bad it really is with the 150% increase in monetary supply with our domestic terrorist Obama Bin Biden following up the socialist Bush.
Increasing The Top Tax Rate Does Not Increase Tax Revenues: Lowering The Top Tax Rate Increases Tax Revenues - Misunderstood Finance
I agree with all of this, my aunt is an administrator in a large city district in the mid west and she says all of this is a problem. Parents, ungodly stupid rules that limit teachers and just lazy freaking teachers. That said, these make the argument for huge pay increases hard because the deck is stacked against them so any tax payer is going to bitch even if it is not taking everything into account. I know it is a bad system, I still can't see how money will instantly solve all the problems.
