Should Christians support Obama?

[heavyiron]

93% of scientists in the national academy of scientists are atheist or agnostic.

What is the average breakdown of agnostic vs atheist?

Cite your source if possible.

 

[exphys88]

What is the average breakdown of agnostic vs atheist?

Cite your source if possible.

72 atheist
20 agnostic

Nature, "Leading scientists still reject God"? July 23, 1998

It's actually a well cited poll by both creationists and atheists.

 

[exphys88]

The theistic evolutionists may be out there, there just isn't many of them in the sciences. They're mostly in church trying to reconcile their contradicting views.

 

[NVRBDR]

Surely if god exists, he would appreciate skepticism and critical thinking.

But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

My son, give attention to my words; Incline your ear to my sayings.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Do not let them depart from your eyes; Keep them in the midst of your heart;
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For they are life to those who find them, And health to all their flesh.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Keep your heart with all diligence, For out of it spring the issues of life.

faith please God, straight up. anything you want know about God, you can read it anytime, He'll meet you on the pages of the His Holy Word, I guarantee it.

 

[exphys88]

But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

My son, give attention to my words; Incline your ear to my sayings.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Do not let them depart from your eyes; Keep them in the midst of your heart;
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For they are life to those who find them, And health to all their flesh.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Keep your heart with all diligence, For out of it spring the issues of life.

faith please God, straight up. anything you want know about God, you can read it anytime, He'll meet you on the pages of the His Holy Word, I guarantee it.

Right, the faith thing. The belief in something without a reason to believe in it. If you ever get cancer, just eat an orange a day and you'll be cured, but you have to have faith for it to work.
Luckily for the world, science doesn't rely on faith, it relies on facts, hence why we live in the world we do today with our medicine and technology.

 

[exphys88]

Here is an important question for creationists.

How do you explain that nearly every scientist from every branch of the biological and physical sciences (biology, paleontology, zoology, anthropology, astronomy etc) from nearly every civilized country accepts evolution as fact and how each one of these sciences are all in agreement about evolution? Do you really think it's a massive conspiracy?

bump for this question, I can't seem to get a creationist to answer this one. Heavy, I assume you aren't a creationist.

 

[NVRBDR]

Right, the faith thing. The belief in something without a reason to believe in it. If you ever get cancer, just eat an orange a day and you'll be cured, but you have to have faith for it to work.
Luckily for the world, science doesn't rely on faith, it relies on facts, hence why we live in the world we do today with our medicine and technology.

yes, the faith thing! I have seen faith and the spoken word of God heal a stroke victim, the doctors thought this person was never going to be the same, they were wrong.

 

[heavyiron]

72 atheist
20 agnostic

Nature, "Leading scientists still reject God"? July 23, 1998

It's actually a well cited poll by both creationists and atheists.

Thats an old poll. Its probably even worse now.

It makes sense though. Scientists are trained to believe observable and reproducable data in the natural world. The supernatural is not observable.

 

[exphys88]

yes, the faith thing! I have seen faith and the spoken word of God heal a stroke victim, the doctors thought this person was never going to be the same, they were wrong.

lol, if that' isn't proof than I don't know what is. Every religion has these stories, which makes all of them even more ridiculous, because surely all of the religions can't be true.

 

[exphys88]

Thats an old poll. Its probably even worse now.

It makes sense though. Scientists are trained to believe observable and reproducable data in the natural world. The supernatural is not observable.

worse? I see it as an improvement. What is wrong with being skeptical to claims that cannot be demonstrated or proven in any fashion? If we can't measure the supernatural in any form, how do we know it exists except for a book that was written by men that nobody knows and who never met jesus?

 

[heavyiron]

worse? I see it as an improvement. What is wrong with being skeptical to claims that cannot be demonstrated or proven in any fashion? If we can't measure the supernatural in any form, how do we know it exists except for a book that was written by men that nobody knows and who never met jesus?

I didn't mean worse in the sense of a negative. Take a breath son and calm down. =)

I also like observable and reproducable data.

 

[exphys88]

I didn't mean worse in the sense of a negative. Take a breath son and calm down. =)

I also like observable and reproducable data.

lol, you're right, I do get a little worked up. It's just something that I'm passionate about, mostly the creationism part.

 

[NVRBDR]

lol, if that' isn't proof than I don't know what is. Every religion has these stories, which makes all of them even more ridiculous, because surely all of the religions can't be true.

laugh if you will. The person, It was my wife, the prayers and spoken Word of God was by me. On January 14 of this year, she seizured at the ER, her MRI showed a massive stroke, she was taken from one hospital by life flight to a larger neurology ICU downtown. She had an emergency surgery, then recovered in neurology ICU for 2 weeks, then home with zero signs of a stroke on her last MRI. There are more details to this story, I'll be glad to share with you, IF you want to hear them. Either way, it was a straight up miracle done in the name of Jesus.

FYI, I am not a religious person by most anyones standards, my church attendance is spotty and I sin on a daily basis. however, I am a believer in Christ, a student of the bible and I understand that Jesus has given those who believe and receive it, forgiveness and salvation amongst many other great and wonderful promises.

 

[heavyiron]

lol, you're right, I do get a little worked up. It's just something that I'm passionate about, mostly the creationism part.

So setting aside the bible. Do you feel strongly negative about a creator/designer that then let evolution take over?

 

[exphys88]

So setting aside the bible. Do you feel strongly negative about a creator/designer that then let evolution take over?

I have a hard time with the idea of a creator, but am in no position to make an assertion one way or the other. I am convinced that if there is a creator, he doesn't intervene though.

 

[exphys88]

laugh if you will. The person, It was my wife, the prayers and spoken Word of God was by me. On January 14 of this year, she seizured at the ER, her MRI showed a massive stroke, she was taken from one hospital by life flight to a larger neurology ICU downtown. She had an emergency surgery, then recovered in neurology ICU for 2 weeks, then home with zero signs of a stroke on her last MRI. There are more details to this story, I'll be glad to share with you, IF you want to hear them. Either way, it was a straight up miracle done in the name of Jesus.

FYI, I am not a religious person by most anyones standards, my church attendance is spotty and I sin on a daily basis. however, I am a believer in Christ, a student of the bible and I understand that Jesus has given those who believe and receive it, forgiveness and salvation amongst many other great and wonderful promises.

I am glad to hear that she recovered.

The issue is that there are many stories from people of other religions who claim that their god healed them too. Just because something extraordinary occurs, doesn't mean it was done by god. Correlation does not equal causation.

 

[NVRBDR]

I am glad to hear that she recovered.

The issue is that there are many stories from people of other religions who claim that their god healed them too. Just because something extraordinary occurs, doesn't mean it was done by god. Correlation does not equal causation.

again, I claim ZERO religion bro. I am a believer in the Word of God, Jesus our Lord, God the Father and the Holy Spirit. It has nothing to do with religions, everything to do with FAITH.
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it
Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

 

[fsoe]

This is all under the assumption that the bible is the word of god, but there are so many things that have been proven to be false in the bible that you have to conclude that it is not the word of god and is actually just a story.
Once you realize that evolution is a fact, the bible becomes fiction. You cannot accept both as truth.

Can you give us examples of what has been proven false , instead of just making a generic statement like the one posted above -

 

[withoutrulers]

again, I claim ZERO religion bro. I am a believer in the Word of God, Jesus our Lord, God the Father and the Holy Spirit. It has nothing to do with religions, everything to do with FAITH.
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it
Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

^^^says he's not religious, then spews religious rhetoric....

 

[exphys88]

Can you give us examples of what has been proven false , instead of just making a generic statement like the one posted above -

the creation story, noah's ark, the resurrection of jesus.

we know that the entire human race cannot originate from 2 humans.

you cannot fit 2 of every animal on a boat, especially if they have to travel from other continents, not to mention the issue with what happened to the dinosaurs that lived in the oceans.

humans do not come back to life after being buried for 3 days, not even with our technology today.

 

[DOMS]

What is the average breakdown of agnostic vs atheist?

Cite your source if possible.

Fun fact: all of the major mass murderers of the 20th century were atheists.

 

[exphys88]

Fun fact: all of the major mass murderers of the 20th century were atheists.

they also had brown hair and were male. Good argument for ridding the world of brown haired males.

Maybe atheists are more intelligent and superior?

 

[exphys88]

Fun fact: all of the major mass murderers of the 20th century were atheists.

We've been thru this before. Can you provide what it is that convinced you that Hitler was an atheist? I am aware of many excerpts from his speeches and writings in which he explicitly refers to himself as a christian and is doing the work of the lord.

All you have ever done is suggest that he was lying, but you have yet to provide proof of his atheism.

 

[DOMS]

they also had brown hair and were male. Good argument for ridding the world of brown haired males.

Prince Yoshiko, Idi Amin, Mao Ze-Dong, Pol Pot, Kim Il Sung, and Mengistu Mariam had brown hair?

Maybe atheists are more intelligent and superior?

They've turned into better killers.

 

[DOMS]

We've been thru this before. Can you provide what it is that convinced you that Hitler was an atheist? I am aware of many excerpts from his speeches and writings in which he explicitly refers to himself as a christian and is doing the work of the lord.

All you have ever done is suggest that he was lying, but you have yet to provide proof of his atheism.

My understanding of Hitler comes from reading books, not the Internet. He did make pro-religious quote...after he decided to get backing from religious people; even though he denounced religion when he left his parents. It was part of his consolidation of power. He went to every group, religious or otherwise, and used his political charms. It's how he rose to power.

Sometimes, learning involves more than a paragraph found on a web page.

 

[exphys88]

My understanding of Hitler comes from reading books, not the Internet. He did make pro-religious quote...after he decided to get backing from religious people; even though he denounced religion when he left his parents. It was part of his consolidation of power. He went to every group, religious or otherwise, and used his political charms. It's how he rose to power.

Sometimes, learning involves more than a paragraph found on a web page.

I didn't know that denouncing religion equates to atheism. I know many christians who denounce religion, are they atheists too?

 

[DOMS]

I didn't know that denouncing religion equates to atheism. I know many christians who denounce religion, are they atheists too?

He denounced all of it; including god.

 

[exphys88]

He denounced all of it; including god.

[h=3]de?nounce/diˈnouns/[/h][TABLE="class: ts"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 80px"]Verb:[/TD]
[TD][TABLE="class: ts"]
[TR]
[TD]

1. Publicly declare to be wrong or evil.
2. Inform against.

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
If he denounces god, he is acknowledging he exists.

 

[heavyiron]

Anyway, not sure I can vote Obama. My home value was decimated under the man and has only gotten worse. He does not know how to fix this thing. Time for someone else to take over.

 

[exphys88]

Anyway, not sure I can vote Obama. My home value was decimated under the man and has only gotten worse. He does not know how to fix this thing. Time for someone else to take over.

My house lost all of its value in 2007 and pretty much stayed the same; it dropped more than 50% that year because I live in a rural area. But, I won't be voting for either. I've become apathetic about politics, my quality of life has not changed under bush or obama and I've come to believe that it doesn't matter.