Should Christians support Obama?

[exphys88]

Here, instead of saying that "religious people have killed more than atheists," lets say that "religion has been responsible for more deaths/murders than atheism," since you acknowledge that those atheists didn't kill because they were atheists. Does that work for you?

 

[DOMS]

Here, instead of saying that "religious people have killed more than atheists," lets say that "religion has been responsible for more deaths/murders than atheism," since you acknowledge that those atheists didn't kill because they were atheists. Does that work for you?

I can roll with that if we're talking about all of history. The previous century...not so much.

But I will take the opportunity to point out that the shitty place on Earth right now has the least amount of religion.

 

[exphys88]

I can roll with that if we're talking about all of history. The previous century...not so much.

But I will take the opportunity to point out that the shitty place on Earth right now has the least amount of religion.

The middle east?

 

[hoyle21]

I would say the shittiest places on earth have the most religion.

And it's always been like that. Religion and its power was at its peak during a time we now refer to as the dark ages.

 

[Luxx]

I never said that atheists kill in the name atheism. I don't know where you got that.

I just pointed out that, in the last century, all of the greatest mass murderers were atheists; no more, no less.

Who?

 

[Luxx]

I would say the shittiest places on earth have the most religion.

And it's always been like that. Religion and its power was at its peak during a time we now refer to as the dark ages.

This

 

[DOMS]

The middle east?

Sub-Saharan Africa. The shittiest place on Earth.

 

[DOMS]

Who?

You're new, so I'll indulge.

Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Idi Admin, Yasuhiko Asaka, Mao Tse-Tung, Kim Il Sung, Yasuhiko Asaka, Mao Tse-Tung, and Kim Il Sung. All total, they're responsible for about 100,000,000 deaths.

 

[troubador]

Why is it still called the Theory of Evolution?

I believe because it uses inductive evidence. We can't create something like a mathematical proof for it. I also think the theory part is about how things evolved not a theory about if evolution exist or not, that part is a fact.

 

[exphys88]

Sub-Saharan Africa. The shittiest place on Earth.

but not shitty because of lack of religion, it's not as if they all converted to christianity that their situation would be better. Japan, which is mosty non religious has some of the happiest, healthiest people on the planet. America, which has a large percentage of religious folks ranks as one of the highest in depression.

 

[DOMS]

I would say the shittiest places on earth have the most religion.

You could, but you'd be wrong.

And it's always been like that. Religion and its power was at its peak during a time we now refer to as the dark ages.

I think this quote from Wiki sums up what I've read:

The medieval period is frequently caricatured as supposedly a "time of ignorance and superstition" which placed "the word of religious authorities over personal experience and rational activity."[SUP][/SUP] However, rationality was increasingly held in high regard as the Middle Ages progressed. The historian of science Edward Grant, writes that "If revolutionary rational thoughts were expressed [in the 18th century], they were only made possible because of the long medieval tradition that established the use of reason as one of the most important of human activities".[SUP][/SUP] Furthermore, David Lindberg says that, contrary to common belief, "the late medieval scholar rarely experienced the coercive power of the church and would have regarded himself as free (particularly in the natural sciences) to follow reason and observation wherever they led".[SUP][/SUP]

 

[DOMS]

but not shitty because of lack of religion, it's not as if they all converted to christianity that their situation would be better. Japan, which is mosty non religious has some of the happiest, healthiest people on the planet. America, which has a large percentage of religious folks ranks as one of the highest in depression.

I simply stated a fact: the place with the least religion is the shittiest place on Earth. But feel free to keep throwing your opinions in.

Also, your belief that the Japanese are "mosty non religious" is a so wrong that I'm astounded.

 

[Luxx]

You're new, so I'll indulge.

Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Idi Admin, Yasuhiko Asaka, Mao Tse-Tung, Kim Il Sung, Yasuhiko Asaka, Mao Tse-Tung, and Kim Il Sung. All total, they're responsible for about 100,000,000 deaths.

Thanks, were they raise in a religious family? Just wondering cause I have listen to a radio show on serial killers and they seem to be raised in a religious family.

 

[exphys88]

I simply stated a fact: the place with the least religion is the shittiest place on Earth. But feel free to keep throwing your opinions in.

Also, your belief that the Japanese are "mosty non religious" is a so wrong that I'm astounded.

Here is a quote from wiki on japanese religious statistics, notice the bold. The other point is that buddhism can be called atheist or non-theist. Are you still astounded?:

Most Japanese people do not exclusively identify themselves as adherents of a single religion; rather, they incorporate elements of various religions in a syncretic fashion[SUP][1][/SUP] known as Shinbutsu shūgō (神仏習合 amalgamation of kami and buddhas[SUP]?[/SUP]). Shinbutsu Shūgō officially ended with the Shinto and Buddhism Separation Order of 1886, but continues in practice. Shinto and Japanese Buddhism are therefore best understood not as two completely separate and competing faiths, but rather as a single, rather complex religious system.[SUP][2][/SUP] Christianity also has an influence on mainstream culture.
Japan enjoys full religious freedom and minority religions such as Christianity, Islam, Hinduism and Sikhism are practiced. Figures that state 84% to 96% of Japanese adhere to Shinto and Buddhism are not based on self-identification but come primarily from birth records, following a longstanding practice of officially associating a family line with a local Buddhist temple or Shinto shrine.[SUP][3][/SUP][SUP][4][/SUP][SUP][5][/SUP][SUP][6][/SUP] About 70% of Japanese profess no religious membership,[SUP][7][/SUP][SUP][8][/SUP] according to Johnstone (1993:323), 84% of the Japanese claim no personal religion. In census questionnaires, less than 15% reported any formal religious affiliation by 2000.[SUP][9][/SUP] And according to Demerath (2001:138), 64% do not believe in God, and 55% do not believe in Buddha.[SUP][10][/SUP] According to Edwin Reischauer, and Marius Jansen, some 70–80% of the Japanese regularly tell pollsters they do not consider themselves believers in any religion.[SUP][1][/SUP] Japanese streets are decorated on Tanabata, Obon and Christmas.

 

[DOMS]

Thanks, were they raise in a religious family? Just wondering cause I have listen to a radio show on serial killers and they seem to be raised in a religious family.

Don't confuse serial killers for mass murderers. They're two different things.

Hitler was, but I don't know about the others.

 

[exphys88]

Don't confuse serial killers for mass murderers. They're two different things.

Hitler was, but I don't know about the others.

Yes, hitler didn't do the killing himself, his christian soldiers did.

 

[DOMS]

Here is a quote from wiki on japanese religious statistics, notice the bold. The other point is that buddhism can be called atheist or non-theist. Are you still astounded?:

Most Japanese people do not exclusively identify themselves as adherents of a single religion; rather, they incorporate elements of various religions in a syncretic fashion[SUP][1][/SUP] known as Shinbutsu shūgō (神仏習合 amalgamation of kami and buddhas[SUP]?[/SUP]). Shinbutsu Shūgō officially ended with the Shinto and Buddhism Separation Order of 1886, but continues in practice. Shinto and Japanese Buddhism are therefore best understood not as two completely separate and competing faiths, but rather as a single, rather complex religious system.[SUP][2][/SUP] Christianity also has an influence on mainstream culture.
Japan enjoys full religious freedom and minority religions such as Christianity, Islam, Hinduism and Sikhism are practiced. Figures that state 84% to 96% of Japanese adhere to Shinto and Buddhism are not based on self-identification but come primarily from birth records, following a longstanding practice of officially associating a family line with a local Buddhist temple or Shinto shrine.[SUP][3][/SUP][SUP][4][/SUP][SUP][5][/SUP][SUP][6][/SUP] About 70% of Japanese profess no religious membership,[SUP][7][/SUP][SUP][8][/SUP] according to Johnstone (1993:323), 84% of the Japanese claim no personal religion. In census questionnaires, less than 15% reported any formal religious affiliation by 2000.[SUP][9][/SUP] And according to Demerath (2001:138), 64% do not believe in God, and 55% do not believe in Buddha.[SUP][10][/SUP] According to Edwin Reischauer, and Marius Jansen, some 70–80% of the Japanese regularly tell pollsters they do not consider themselves believers in any religion.[SUP][1][/SUP] Japanese streets are decorated on Tanabata, Obon and Christmas.

I never had an issue with Wikipedia...until now.

Someone has butchered that page within the last year or so. All of that "the Japanese aren't religious" stuff was added.

Curious, I checked sources 7-9.

Seven links to a page with an opinion piece that reads, "Millions Disenchanted With Buddhism, Shinto Find Spiritual Options", and has no sources.
Eight links to another opinion piece with no sources.
The ninth links to a book reference and doesn't even bother with an excerpt.

For this, I'll use a British word: rubbish. That's what that edit is.

Japan is one of my favorite topics of study. This Wiki edit is wrong.

 

[troubador]

This is a ridiculous argument. If religions are all false then it can not be the root cause of so many problems. In other words, if religion is man made these problems exist with man and independent of religion. I think religion could only be a symptom and not a cause. There are atheists who think and reason just as though they were religious.

 

[DOMS]

Yes, hitler didn't do the killing himself, his christian soldiers did.

Following their leader who fed them propaganda. None of which changes the fact that Adolf was atheist.

 

[DOMS]

This is a ridiculous argument. If religions are all false then it can not be the root cause of so many problems. In other words, if religion is man made these problems exist with man and independent of religion. I think religion could only be a symptom and not a cause. There are atheists who think and reason just as though they were religious.

Such as the Religion of Global Warming.

 

[exphys88]

This is a ridiculous argument. If religions are all false then it can not be the root cause of so many problems. In other words, if religion is man made these problems exist with man and independent of religion. I think religion could only be a symptom and not a cause. There are atheists who think and reason just as though they were religious.

hmmm? I think you make a valid point, but I don't think that anyone was making any claims about what problems exist as a result of religion. I was mostly pointing out that evolution and the bible are incompatible.

 

[exphys88]

I never had an issue with Wikipedia...until now.

Someone has butchered that page within the last year or so. All of that "the Japanese aren't religious" stuff was added.

Curious, I checked sources 7-9.

Seven links to a page with an opinion piece that reads, "Millions Disenchanted With Buddhism, Shinto Find Spiritual Options", and has no sources.
Eight links to another opinion piece with no sources.
The ninth links to a book reference and doesn't even bother with an excerpt.

For this, I'll use a British word: rubbish. That's what that edit is.

Japan is one of my favorite topics of study. This Wiki edit is wrong.

I don't doubt you on this. The interesting part is that they don't believe in god, yet have one of the best societies out there. Not a good argument for the necessity of god to be moral. And, some claim that buddhist is not a religion, but a way of life, but that's just a play on words IMO.

 

[withoutrulers]

Religious views of Adolf Hitler - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Not seeing anything in here about hitler being atheist.

 

[exphys88]

Religious views of Adolf Hitler - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Not seeing anything in here about hitler being atheist.

There is nothing to suggest he was atheist, except some "books" that DOMS has read that convinced him. There are, however, many quotes in which he specifically refers to himself as a christian.

 

[DOMS]

I don't doubt you on this. The interesting part is that they don't believe in god, yet have one of the best societies out there. Not a good argument for the necessity of god to be moral. And, some claim that buddhist is not a religion, but a way of life, but that's just a play on words IMO.

Don't confuse being religious with have a god in the Christian sense. They Japanese believe in kami, or spirits. They believe that many sentient, non-human, spirits exist in the world. They also beleive in spirits of the dead and reincarnation. Don't fool yourself, they are religious.

Actually, most Japanese practice two religions, Buddhism (inner) and Shintoism (outer). Buddhism I'm sure you're familiar with, but Shintoism comes from the original inhabitants of the Japanese islands called Ainu. The Japanese live a life that balances the two.

 

[exphys88]

Don't confuse being religious with have a god in the Christian sense. They Japanese believe in kami, or spirits. They believe that many sentient, non-human, spirits exist in the world. They also beleive in spirits of the dead and reincarnation. Don't fool yourself, they are religious.

Actually, most Japanese practice two religions, Buddhism (outer) and Shintoism (inner). Buddhism I'm sure you're familiar with, but Shintoism comes from the original inhabitants of the Japanese islands called Ainu. The Japanese live a life that balances the two.

fair enough, I concede the point.

 

[DOMS]

There is nothing to suggest he was atheist, except some "books" that DOMS has read that convinced him. There are, however, many quotes in which he specifically refers to himself as a christian.

I'm not interested in fitting Hitler into my world-view. I'm just interested in Hitler. If there were proof that he was religious, I'd go with it. But I've read many books that covered Hitler's life in detail. The short of it is that Hitler was the perfect politician; one scary bastard.

Also, I like how you put books in quotes. Should I put everything you say that I don't agree with in quotes? Are you "intelligent"?

 

[withoutrulers]

As an atheist, I take my marching orders from non-god. "What's that voice in my head that only
i can hear? Go forth and kill millions of people who disagree with my non-ideology?" Let us darken the ground with their blood.

 

[DOMS]

fair enough, I concede the point.

I'm still rather unhappy to have found an article on Wiki that's so horrifically biased and based on opinion.

 

[exphys88]

I'm not interested in fitting Hitler into my world-view. I'm just interested in Hitler. If there were proof that he was religious, I'd go with it. But I've read many books that covered Hitler's life in detail. The short of it is that Hitler was the perfect politician; one scary bastard.

Also, I like how you put books in quotes. Should I put everything you say that I don't agree with in quotes? Are you "intelligent"?

lol. I was referring to your earlier statement that you were convinced about his atheism from books that you read. The problem is that he said he was a christian, never said he was an atheist, yet you conclude he is one because he condemns religion? Seems like a stretch.